Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1797730:date=Sep 6 2010, 01:23 PM:name=MaLaKa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaLaKa @ Sep 6 2010, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It started to get a horrible air of elitism with the remaining people. [...] everyone whining and complaining on the losing team, the winning team gloating and being snobby, and just general arguments, rage, trolling, 4chan'ism, internet meme's and other horrible turn-offs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hehehe!! Well taking a look at the forums, its kind-of the same population. I think a social study of the people orbiting around NS would be pretty funny! There was a post at time where people gave a little presentation on themselves. Most were computer-junkies, which I believe to be a peculiar bunch of people. They are like musicians in a way. Crazy (but educated) people whose purpose is to entertain the common. :p
<!--quoteo(post=1797733:date=Sep 6 2010, 07:46 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Sep 6 2010, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hehehe!! Well taking a look at the forums, its kind-of the same population. I think a social study of the people orbiting around NS would be pretty funny!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well not all of the NS players out there will be like that. I should of probably said that!
I guess it was the community and servers I was dealing with at the time. When I moved to the UK, the gaming communities/servers I played on (NS, TF2, Gmod, UT, etc) seem to have a lot better temperament in comparison. Nowhere near as aggressive.
I have a dedicated server and would like to sponsor a clan or do something to get my server full of regulars... I don't always have the time to play but when I do I have to wait all night before I get people in...
Konoro.org - its a UK server and the machine is an absolute beast...
Perhaps if anyone wants to be admin where they attract regulars, choose their favourite maps! I'm up for it :D
<!--quoteo(post=1797736:date=Sep 6 2010, 10:03 PM:name=intellix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (intellix @ Sep 6 2010, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a dedicated server and would like to sponsor a clan or do something to get my server full of regulars... I don't always have the time to play but when I do I have to wait all night before I get people in...
Konoro.org - its a UK server and the machine is an absolute beast...
Perhaps if anyone wants to be admin where they attract regulars, choose their favourite maps! I'm up for it :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Kewl add no plugin except mapvote, and no modmaps and set default map (when empty) to veil.
edit
Tested graph looked good (empty server though), but you need to remove mp_blockscripts.
I think video media is going to be your best bet. Make some good video walkthroughs designed for new players giving them tips and stuff on how to become useful even as a new player. If these exists point lots of people to them.
Patch 3.3 would definitely get lots of exposure and me back in there more often. But what would it patch?
<!--quoteo(post=1797741:date=Sep 6 2010, 04:30 PM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Sep 6 2010, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think video media is going to be your best bet. Make some good video walkthroughs designed for new players giving them tips and stuff on how to become useful even as a new player. If these exists point lots of people to them.
Patch 3.3 would definitely get lots of exposure and me back in there more often. But what would it patch?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Similar to snarks from Half-Life, gorges can open their mouths and send adorable mini gorges out to snuggle newbies and give additional fire resistance.
<!--quoteo(post=1797570:date=Sep 4 2010, 05:56 PM:name=AtAmAcA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AtAmAcA @ Sep 4 2010, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not so much digging some of your attitudes around here!
Counter-Strike 1.6 peaked at almost 60k players today. Past it's hayday?
If try to do this and plan it well, we can absolutely succeed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a HUGE difference between CS and NS. counter strike will never die, ns is great i love (and about 200 other people lol) but yeah CS>NS any day. I really wish more people played NS though it would be fn if there was more then one or 2 good servers lol,
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The sheer learning curve combined with the fact that the people playing right now know all the tricks of the trade will be very off-putting for newbies.
<!--quoteo(post=1797741:date=Sep 6 2010, 09:30 PM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Sep 6 2010, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Patch 3.3 would definitely get lots of exposure and me back in there more often. But what would it patch?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I'll start the replies to this one!
*Limit FPS to 125
Those who understand will probably agree, those who don't understand, it has nothing to do with what you think it does!
For those that really understand, the correct way is to fix the things that gain improvements at higher fps (lateral JP movement). lmg/hmg fire rate is correct at 200 fps, so a fix is needed to make it work correctly at any fps. There are other small differences (bhop speed, adren usage, animations afaik) but most of those I think are so small that they are not worth the time to fix. Capping fps at 125 is a good temporary fix (well most likely permanent since no 3.3), but not a solution.
To all those that say NS are hard to learn, it’s really not hard to learn the basics. If you had some people that truly understand the game offering some lessons (the few players of that level that are left at this point), you would be surprised how fast people can pick it up.
I’ve toyed with try to start a community for this sole purpose, but still need more players that would be consistently interested. The goal was twofold, both trying to start some form of competitive NS play back up, and be a boot camp for interested new players.
<!--quoteo(post=1797985:date=Sep 8 2010, 11:33 PM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Sep 8 2010, 11:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lmg/hmg fire rate is correct at 200 fps, so a fix is needed to make it work correctly at any fps. There are other small differences (bhop speed, adren usage, animations afaik) but most of those I think are so small that they are not worth the time to fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read someone say that that is correct before. So I'd like a source of that, because unless it came from a certain two people (neither of whom are involved in ns2) the comments are unfounded.
Every fire rate is increased, not just those.
I also know every other fps that gives faster (some faster than others) fire rates, movement rates, adren rates etc, and they don't have the side effect of the air control stupidness. Also the percieved speed of other players, the feeling that jump height is different, the amount of times you can tap forward and still stay silent and on and on and on... are all changed at different fps.
So I don't think it was understood at all. Although every fps SHOULD have the same effects as eachother, I don't know how easy that would be to implement, it possible at all.
For peoples information, 100fps is one of the slower FPS to use, the default 72fps in the config is slower.
<!--quoteo(post=1797985:date=Sep 9 2010, 01:33 AM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Sep 9 2010, 01:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To all those that say NS are hard to learn, it’s really not hard to learn the basics. If you had some people that truly understand the game offering some lessons (the few players of that level that are left at this point), you would be surprised how fast people can pick it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, after learning the basics and little experience coming back to the game isnt that hard. I personally had couple over 6 months breaks from FPS / games and returning. It took only day or two to adjust eyes and reflexes to the fast gameplay, once you truly learn something it doesnt go away.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1797993:date=Sep 9 2010, 01:19 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Sep 9 2010, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, after learning the basics and little experience coming back to the game isnt that hard. I personally had couple over 6 months breaks from FPS / games and returning. It took only day or two to adjust eyes and reflexes to the fast gameplay, once you truly learn something it doesnt go away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, but coming back to NS and completely starting from scratch are two completely different things...
For one you already know the basics and what each lifeform can do or is supposed to do. Newbies do not have this knowledge, and the game does not tell you anything from scratch, let alone the "veteran" players. Mostly they just yell at the guy putting down the wrong buildings when Gorge-ing. Like I said, the combination of players that played Ns for a long time (are good at the game and know its ins and outs). Combined with the learning curve is off-putting...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NSvet: Go and put up some OC and DC! NSplayer: What is an OC? NSvet: Just go Gorge and build a RT at horseshoe NSplayer: RT? Horseshoe... NSvet: SIGH!
NSvet: GTFO of the CC!!! NSplayer: Hey this is cool, I'll put down a few buidings in base NSvet: Stop waiting res!!! We don't need 4 Armories!!! NSplayer: Here have some shotguns! NSvet: SIGH!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dieing all the time, while even just one or two guys yells at you for screwing over the team etc... Is just no fun, the aging engine also doesn't really help in this respect...
<!--quoteo(post=1797998:date=Sep 9 2010, 02:41 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 9 2010, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, but coming back to NS and completely starting from scratch are two completely different things...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I cannot really agree, accessability bind / command wise is very bad however if you have any previous experience of fps / rts you know how to start. It isnt that odd to see people improve lots in 1-3 months this is because they learn from the people from gathers / pcws like the poster I previously quoted said.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2010
It does require a player that wants to play and also wants to learn, those are hard to come by this generation... the rest of my post (selective quoting out of context again T_T) explains additional problems, which simply cannot be disregarded...
I'm not saying NS1 should die, but introducing new players is usually met by either hostility on the NSvet's part or "<i>WTF is this old game, how do you play, why is everyone yelling</i>" on the NSplayer's part. It only takes one or two asshats to screw up the newbie's introduction, up to the point where he/she says "screw this".
Introducing them on a LAN party for instance could be a much better way... So get you LAN gear on and leave your SC2 DVD's at home!!!
my post was strictly geared towards an environment/server where the new players would be taught, not just lets join random pub server X and give it a go. I've given people crash courses in NS over a one week period, and by the end they were about as good or better than your average random pubber is. There is more to learning NS then just the gameplay/tatics. If you take someone with no basic FPS skill at all, then it would be an entirely different story. I still bring people over from CS or TFC on occasion, and most cant believe the game is so unknown once they grasp the basics.
Regarding the 200fps lmg/hmg, i would honestly have to look that up, its been so long. I believe it was confirmed by the dev team at the time, that 200 fps was correct for hmg/lmg dps (however not for the JP). Regarding the different FPS', i believe it was 125 that was the general all around best (as you had said). Would be nice to see all that stuff locked so any fps plays like 125.
Running at 200 fps really offers no increases for other weapons (sgs fire rate is slow enough it doesnt matter, pistol is only 10 shots and actually fires faster at lower fps i believe).
I personally think we should make the push closer toward BETA release or the actual game. If we make the push now, people will just leave again and we'll be back @ square 1 with low # of users... So keep your ideas flowing, but implement them later in the future :)
I will play NS as long as it is available even if it has to be on LAN at home. I’m anticipating NS2 with a lot of excitement but the hl1 games will still be on my play list. I would like to see NS ported to the spark engine.
Comments
[...] everyone whining and complaining on the losing team, the winning team gloating and being snobby, and just general arguments, rage, trolling, 4chan'ism, internet meme's and other horrible turn-offs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hehehe!! Well taking a look at the forums, its kind-of the same population. I think a social study of the people orbiting around NS would be pretty funny! There was a post at time where people gave a little presentation on themselves. Most were computer-junkies, which I believe to be a peculiar bunch of people. They are like musicians in a way. Crazy (but educated) people whose purpose is to entertain the common. :p
Well not all of the NS players out there will be like that. I should of probably said that!
I guess it was the community and servers I was dealing with at the time. When I moved to the UK, the gaming communities/servers I played on (NS, TF2, Gmod, UT, etc) seem to have a lot better temperament in comparison. Nowhere near as aggressive.
Konoro.org - its a UK server and the machine is an absolute beast...
Perhaps if anyone wants to be admin where they attract regulars, choose their favourite maps! I'm up for it :D
Konoro.org - its a UK server and the machine is an absolute beast...
Perhaps if anyone wants to be admin where they attract regulars, choose their favourite maps! I'm up for it :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kewl add no plugin except mapvote, and no modmaps and set default map (when empty) to veil.
edit
Tested graph looked good (empty server though), but you need to remove mp_blockscripts.
edit the edit
SELFWELD OFF lol.
Patch 3.3 would definitely get lots of exposure and me back in there more often. But what would it patch?
Patch 3.3 would definitely get lots of exposure and me back in there more often. But what would it patch?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Similar to snarks from Half-Life, gorges can open their mouths and send adorable mini gorges out to snuggle newbies and give additional fire resistance.
Check it out:
<a href="http://store.steampowered.com/stats/" target="_blank">http://store.steampowered.com/stats/</a>
Counter-Strike 1.6 peaked at almost 60k players today. Past it's hayday?
If try to do this and plan it well, we can absolutely succeed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a HUGE difference between CS and NS. counter strike will never die, ns is great i love (and about 200 other people lol) but yeah CS>NS any day. I really wish more people played NS though it would be fn if there was more then one or 2 good servers lol,
Ok, I'll start the replies to this one!
*Limit FPS to 125
Those who understand will probably agree, those who don't understand, it has nothing to do with what you think it does!
To all those that say NS are hard to learn, it’s really not hard to learn the basics. If you had some people that truly understand the game offering some lessons (the few players of that level that are left at this point), you would be surprised how fast people can pick it up.
I’ve toyed with try to start a community for this sole purpose, but still need more players that would be consistently interested. The goal was twofold, both trying to start some form of competitive NS play back up, and be a boot camp for interested new players.
I've read someone say that that is correct before. So I'd like a source of that, because unless it came from a certain two people (neither of whom are involved in ns2) the comments are unfounded.
Every fire rate is increased, not just those.
I also know every other fps that gives faster (some faster than others) fire rates, movement rates, adren rates etc, and they don't have the side effect of the air control stupidness. Also the percieved speed of other players, the feeling that jump height is different, the amount of times you can tap forward and still stay silent and on and on and on... are all changed at different fps.
So I don't think it was understood at all. Although every fps SHOULD have the same effects as eachother, I don't know how easy that would be to implement, it possible at all.
For peoples information, 100fps is one of the slower FPS to use, the default 72fps in the config is slower.
I agree, after learning the basics and little experience coming back to the game isnt that hard. I personally had couple over 6 months breaks from FPS / games and returning.
It took only day or two to adjust eyes and reflexes to the fast gameplay, once you truly learn something it doesnt go away.
It took only day or two to adjust eyes and reflexes to the fast gameplay, once you truly learn something it doesnt go away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, but coming back to NS and completely starting from scratch are two completely different things...
For one you already know the basics and what each lifeform can do or is supposed to do. Newbies do not have this knowledge, and the game does not tell you anything from scratch, let alone the "veteran" players. Mostly they just yell at the guy putting down the wrong buildings when Gorge-ing. Like I said, the combination of players that played Ns for a long time (are good at the game and know its ins and outs). Combined with the learning curve is off-putting...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NSvet: Go and put up some OC and DC!
NSplayer: What is an OC?
NSvet: Just go Gorge and build a RT at horseshoe
NSplayer: RT? Horseshoe...
NSvet: SIGH!
NSvet: GTFO of the CC!!!
NSplayer: Hey this is cool, I'll put down a few buidings in base
NSvet: Stop waiting res!!! We don't need 4 Armories!!!
NSplayer: Here have some shotguns!
NSvet: SIGH!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dieing all the time, while even just one or two guys yells at you for screwing over the team etc... Is just no fun, the aging engine also doesn't really help in this respect...
I cannot really agree, accessability bind / command wise is very bad however if you have any previous experience of fps / rts you know how to start. It isnt that odd to see people improve lots in 1-3 months this is because they learn from the people from gathers / pcws like the poster I previously quoted said.
I'm not saying NS1 should die, but introducing new players is usually met by either hostility on the NSvet's part or "<i>WTF is this old game, how do you play, why is everyone yelling</i>" on the NSplayer's part. It only takes one or two asshats to screw up the newbie's introduction, up to the point where he/she says "screw this".
Introducing them on a LAN party for instance could be a much better way... So get you LAN gear on and leave your SC2 DVD's at home!!!
Regarding the 200fps lmg/hmg, i would honestly have to look that up, its been so long. I believe it was confirmed by the dev team at the time, that 200 fps was correct for hmg/lmg dps (however not for the JP).
Regarding the different FPS', i believe it was 125 that was the general all around best (as you had said). Would be nice to see all that stuff locked so any fps plays like 125.
Running at 200 fps really offers no increases for other weapons (sgs fire rate is slow enough it doesnt matter, pistol is only 10 shots and actually fires faster at lower fps i believe).
If we make the push now, people will just leave again and
we'll be back @ square 1 with low # of users...
So keep your ideas flowing, but implement them later in the future :)