<!--quoteo(post=1802260:date=Oct 22 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Jack_Daniels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jack_Daniels @ Oct 22 2010, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I can honestly tell you I won't be paying 20 dollars for access to an alpha build again. I don't really see how I am getting a return on that investment. I played TFC way more then I played the original NS. So... what enjoyment am I getting for extra bucks that I am spending?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As it has been stated before your return on investment will probably come after the next patch, when you get to test all the early stuff before any of the beta people.
The next patch does not END playable alpha, it begins it.
I agree that it is understandable as to why they sometimes delay the release 1 week or more, but when it is over 1 month people have a tendency to get impatient. Me included. The solution to that as I see it, could have been releasing a small patch of a version you know worked, or some conceptual stuff.
Now This is actually exactly what UWE have done, in that they released the concepts for the whip (and flamethrower before that). Sure, it is nothing that we can play, but it still provides us with a sense of progress. Altough I myself would have appreciated a bit more insight on the engine part, I understand that not everything UWE does can be centered about what I want. Thus I happily looks at the twitter stuff for information every day XD.
Then there is also those people who seem to think more frequent patches means more work in less time, thus saying they want patches they know they will test once, and then spend the rest of the time asking for new patches.
All this said, I would still love if there was more updates (for example tweets) about the progress on the engine, as the twitter stuff is rarely more than 10 per week, where most is gameplay related. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1802260:date=Oct 21 2010, 04:39 PM:name=Jack_Daniels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jack_Daniels @ Oct 21 2010, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I can honestly tell you I won't be paying 20 dollars for access to an alpha build again. I don't really see how I am getting a return on that investment. I played TFC way more then I played the original NS. So... what enjoyment am I getting for extra bucks that I am spending?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its an alpha, what kind of "enjoyment" were you expecting?..you are complaining because you got a "very buggy alpha" version of the game? lol
<!--quoteo(post=1802277:date=Oct 21 2010, 07:43 PM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Oct 21 2010, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its an alpha, what kind of "enjoyment" were you expecting?..you are complaining because you got a "very buggy alpha" version of the game? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not even close. It looks like he's annoyed because he was lead to believe that he would be part of the alpha development process, which would included a release every week or two -- and hasn't received one for two months. The weekly release timeframe wasn't a promise, so isn't an big letdown, but it is one nonetheless.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2010
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The development build is updated quite often - sometimes several times a day. Getting that out to 15,000-odd people would be a technical nightmare; it would be hard for players to keep track of changes and hard for us to follow their feedback. It'd be a pretty messy situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I realize it's not quite the same scale as writing an entire game, but the Sourcemod project manages to do builds of every single commit into their source tree, without any sort of issues like you are describing. Plenty of open source projects (that are as big, or bigger then NS2) do nightly builds with none of the sort of issues you are describing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Giving that number of people access to our version control system would be taking things way too far. We want to give people a clear look at our development process but we also need space in which to actually develop. In fact, with the way we have things set up, I don't think there's a way we could give that to people without giving them at least some way of tampering with the build. We don't want that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> SVN has read-only capabilities. I've used them before, they work perfectly. More relevantly: I don't think anyone is saying 'give us access to your internal tools', as that's just insane. What they are really trying to say is 'We want builds that are automatically generated at some interval, regardless of what you feel is done'. You can drop zip files of the compiled code into a FTP somewhere for all the people on here care.
Your other two points are sound, I can't really argue them.
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?
<!--quoteo(post=1802288:date=Oct 22 2010, 05:14 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Oct 22 2010, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The banner on the home page of this community site for NS2 states:
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My understanding is after the next huge patch, there will be many smaller patches at shorter time intervals.
Which is why I don't understand the "I got cheated" tears at the moment.
To be honest I wish they'd refund all the people saying this and take away their access, so that when we are all actually testing the next alpha build and the thousands after that they can have another cry and learn that they should have been more patient - and that what they bought was value for money.
Frankly, the fact that you haven't received what you paid for <b>yet</b> is a poor argument for your payment being wasted if that's still coming up.
If the next patch advanced it to beta, then I'd understand.
<!--quoteo(post=1802228:date=Oct 21 2010, 11:59 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Oct 21 2010, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a bunch of reasons we can't or shouldn't do this:
<ul><li> Our internal builds are full of things that we're not ready to show to the public yet: unfinished maps, art assets, unoptimised code, as well as experimental features that we haven't decided whether or not to include.</li><li> Even though it's an alpha, some quality control is necessary when you're dealing with a large number of paying customers. You can't expect the majority of them to understand quite how much things change over the course of game development.</li><li> The development build is updated quite often - sometimes several times a day. Getting that out to 15,000-odd people would be a technical nightmare; it would be hard for players to keep track of changes and hard for us to follow their feedback. It'd be a pretty messy situation.</li><li> Giving that number of people access to our version control system would be taking things way too far. We want to give people a clear look at our development process but we also need space in which to actually develop. In fact, with the way we have things set up, I don't think there's a way we could give that to people without giving them at least some way of tampering with the build. We don't want that.</li></ul>
I realise waiting for this next patch can be frustrating, but I don't think things would be improved (for us or for the players) by giving access to dev builds. Given that we're holding up the next patch to make the game playable for everyone, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by giving them access to raw, untested development builds of the game. We wanted to update the game more frequently, and we hope to go back to that after this next big patch is released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one understand this fully and support you 100%. I can't wait until this game is more playable. It'll all be worth it!
doubt UWE regrets about the alpha access; they made plenty of investing money from it. funny how long it takes for people to see how this is all playing out... i got banned or had my posts deleted for saying such things... it's..... blasphemy to UWE! how are you (people who paid for the alpha) complain about no patches in 3 months (basically the next patch will be near-beta it seems like). You paid that 40 for black armor and maybe a month or less of alpha testing! hush now!
<!--quoteo(post=1802288:date=Oct 22 2010, 12:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Oct 22 2010, 12:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
citing minecraft alpha is a poor choice. generally indie games dont really follow alpha/beta rules very well. e.g. dwarf fortress, which has been playable for years and yet is still considered 'alpha'.
<!--quoteo(post=1802288:date=Oct 21 2010, 11:14 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Oct 21 2010, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The banner on the home page of this community site for NS2 states:
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played the alpha. If you haven't already, stop complaining and do it. If you're dissatisfied with the program you were given, too bad. That's the alpha that's out right now. If you don't like what's out now, don't play it again till beta - you probably won't like it before that's released.
I dunno about anyone else, but I paid the extra cash to support UWE and thank them for NS1. (well, and get that black armor) I got bored of the current alpha build 2 days after it came out, and I don't map. Know what I do? Shut up and wait patiently for the next build, which I will likely play for two days, then stop. When the final version is out, I will play for more time than is healthy. For now, I have other games to keep me busy.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1802287:date=Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM:name=devicenull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (devicenull @ Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I realize it's not quite the same scale as writing an entire game, but the Sourcemod project manages to do builds of every single commit into their source tree, without any sort of issues like you are describing. Plenty of open source projects (that are as big, or bigger then NS2) do nightly builds with none of the sort of issues you are describing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doing what those projects are doing would require an infrastructure change that would take time away from development; after all, I expect most of those projects were intended to work that way from the very beginning. I'd rather the time were spent getting the next patch sorted, and I bet the others would to.
<!--quoteo(post=1802287:date=Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM:name=devicenull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (devicenull @ Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SVN has read-only capabilities. I've used them before, they work perfectly. More relevantly: I don't think anyone is saying 'give us access to your internal tools', as that's just insane. What they are really trying to say is 'We want builds that are automatically generated at some interval, regardless of what you feel is done'. You can drop zip files of the compiled code into a FTP somewhere for all the people on here care.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We actually distribute internal builds using Dropbox, which I don't think lets you set things like read-only permissions (not yet anyway). It seemed to me like the OP was sort of saying 'give us access to your internal tools', but if he wasn't then fair enough. As you say, there are other sound reasons for not doing this.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I pre-ordered the game and received alpha access. Please only release the next patch when you are happy with it.
Hopefully other people do realise that the UW team are working on producing the game - when they have a decent patch, as they have been saying for a while now, they will ship it.
Asking them to spend time in getting SVN access or nightly builds working is unreasonable; they have a limited budget and resources and the time should be spent on the actual game/engine and not managing a build system for the public to use; and then the ongoing support burden that would bring along with it.
I am sure that once the game is in a more solid and playable alpha state (when this next patch arrives) updates will be a lot easier in the future because one of the biggest road blocks to getting the game playable and testable would have been resolved.
<!--quoteo(post=1802297:date=Oct 22 2010, 08:33 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 22 2010, 08:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I played the alpha. If you haven't already, stop complaining and do it. If you're dissatisfied with the program you were given, too bad. That's the alpha that's out right now. If you don't like what's out now, don't play it again till beta - you probably won't like it before that's released.
I dunno about anyone else, but I paid the extra cash to support UWE and thank them for NS1. (well, and get that black armor) I got bored of the current alpha build 2 days after it came out, and I don't map. Know what I do? Shut up and wait patiently for the next build, which I will likely play for two days, then stop. When the final version is out, I will play for more time than is healthy. For now, I have other games to keep me busy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Award for the daftest response I've had in ages goes to yours truly. All that just because I posted the image of UWE clearly advertising the game as being playable on July 26th as part of it's sales pitch, something which they've clearly failed to deliver as the game is unplayable. If you think merely running a programme constitutes "playable", then that's your (highly flawed) interpretation of the word. For a multiplayer-only game that has severe lag issues, I think most normal folk would agree it makes the game unplayable.
But anyway, this is one unfortunate problem with this place, and indeed it's common with many other developers' forums. Too many fanboys who go all psycho-Nazi on someone with a different opinion to themselves that involves a bit of criticism around the game/developers/etc. "Stop complaining", "shut up", "you do this because I say so", "I do this so you must do same". Who are you, Kim Jong Il? I couldn't care less what you do or don't do. Calm down, get off your high horse, and learn to accept that an internet forum will have different opinions with people who don't think or act like you, and you certainly are in no position to think that you're right or doing things the correct way.
UWE need to learn from their mistakes if they're to survive in the long term. Imagine if they do this sort of thing a number of times? They'll gain a bad reputation in no time at all, when they could have avoided the situation entirely by not making promises they didn't need to make. This was their first attempt at a big retail game, so it's understandable, but at the same time that doesn't exempt them from criticism, especially in a fast paced industry like video games. Like any games company, if they fail to deliver on a promise, then people have a right to complain. If you don't like that, then that's your problem. Maybe you should just expand on your own advice and philosophies, and learn to shut up if you see other people expressing their discontent, especially if you have absolutely nothing constructive to say on the matter, as per above?
<!--quoteo(post=1802365:date=Oct 22 2010, 04:32 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Oct 22 2010, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802365"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if they fail to deliver on a promise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> UWE promised what now?
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2010
That image says "<i>Play the NS2 Alpha</i>"
An Alpha can range from anything that is an buggy engine test to a seemingly complete or somewhat stable game that does not leave the Alpha status until it it is complete... Obviously the NS2 Alpha is quite similar to an engine test, that runs on some machines and completely kills the FPS on others...
But you can still "Play the NS2 Alpha", the fact that it is laggy and crashing on certain hardware/software combination is now being worked on. Again, they now know more about these issues with the engine, because of the Alpha access. Which all helps with the ongoing development of the engine.
That is actually what playing an alpha means in this case... FEEDBACK for UWE is our purpose right now. And if you're lucky actually walk around in the game. Or if you're really lucky, you could actually play the game. If people expected more from an early alpha version then that is their own damn fault...
Supporting the troops (UWE) with that extra cashflow also is one of the things that helped UWE. Heck I think it saved the EXO suit
This is a banner used by UWE to promote sales of it's product. It clearly says "Play the NS2 Alpha on July 26th. Last chance to play on Day 1...". It's been 3 months since that date and the game is still in an unplayable state...hopefully not for long.
Please don't tell me you're going to argue "but it's not a promise unless they say "we promse"". It's obviously implied. If it makes you happy, use a different term to the word "promise". I'm not really bothered. My point is very simple - they said "play on July 26th", and failed to deliver a playable Alpha version.
FYI I'm not really fussed about this delay at all, I agree fully that UWE should wait until they have fixed the major problems in the networking/performance areas, and I have plenty of other games to play, and this won't change for the forseeable future with Football Manager and Black Ops coming out in two weeks. It's more a case of playing devil's advocate and expressing a justifiable position so that we don't have a group of fanboys aggressively and unanimously condemning everyone who moans about the situation as being "idiots" who "should know what an Alpha is, rofl". My underlying point to all this is that other people are fully justified in being pissed off at the situation if they want to be.
For example, I persuaded a friend to buy this after promoting NS to him (he had never played it), and he got pretty excited about it come July 26th. It's now October 22. I can tell you he's lost all interest in the game and thinks UWE are a laughing stock, a newbie development company unable to code a game adequately, and regrets spending money on this. Maybe some of you couldn't care less about this, after all it's all about you and what you want, and how the game is your game to be enjoyed by you, right? I'd only say that as a fan of NS and UWE, they should care as they've lost a customer in the long term and gained a bad reputation all in the same process. Which is a shame.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Read one post above yours, ya missed one while posting yourself <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
An Alpha can range from anything that is an buggy engine test to a seemingly complete or somewhat stable game that does not leave the Alpha status until it it is complete... Obviously the NS2 Alpha is quite similar to an engine test, that runs on some machines and completely kills the FPS on others...
But you can still "Play the NS2 Alpha", the fact that it is laggy and crashing on certain hardware/software combination is now being worked on. Again, they now know more about these issues with the engine, because of the Alpha access. Which all helps with the ongoing development of the engine.
That is actually what playing an alpha means in this case... FEEDBACK for UWE is our purpose right now. And if you're lucky actually walk around in the game. Or if you're really lucky, you could actually play the game. If people expected more from an early alpha version then that is their own damn fault...
Supporting the troops (UWE) with that extra cashflow also is one of the things that helped UWE. Heck I think it saved the EXO suit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surely you see the contradiction in the first and second part of your post?
If an Alpha is inherently unplayable, than it was UWE's responsibility to word their advertising banners differently. They should have put "test" instead of "play", or something else at least. The two terms mean very different things to a gamer, games are there to be played, they're playable if they're working as intended to a degree of competency, and hence it's pretty obvious that "play" refers to a game that is in a "playable" state.
So this was a mistake on UWE's part if we accept what you say.
However, I don't accept what you say, because it's a common view on here made to appease complaints directed at NS2/UWE. Firstly, clearly UWE intended the Alpha relase to be "playable". Secondly, there's no hard and fast rule that an Alpha has to be buggy, unplayable, etc etc. As stated earlier, people are just making the rules up on here to defend UWE. I have a friend who has a Masters in Games Design, and he's stated that an Alpha is commonly playable with core mechanisms working - hence why you have a pre-alpha. The Beta is then the more polished stage where the additional features are added prior to going final. If you want to discard what he's said, fine, but the previous point stands in that an Alpha being "playable" will differ from game to game and developer to developer. I mentioned Shogun 2 as an exmaple (which I see was ignored), as that is in pre-alpha stage, yet from in-game footage it looks pretty playable.
Hence why I took issue with what UWE advertised. If they advertise an Alpha as being playable by saying "Play the Alpha on this date", then that's what it should be - playable. That is what your average gamer, who isn't an overnight Alpha-industry-expert like many on here seem to be, would assume. If it's not mean, then what they used to promote sales of the game turned out to be false advertising. And that's unfortunately what has happened.
And FYI, I could easily say "if you think differently, then that's your problem". But it's kind of a fail arguement used by people to close off debateable points that they've made. Kind of like me saying "I'm right, so this is the end of the debate".
<!--quoteo(post=1802375:date=Oct 23 2010, 10:11 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Oct 23 2010, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TLDR Forum Warrior<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're way off the mark on this. I played the alpha, shot some skulks, shot at some lerks really enjoyed having a look around then my enjoyment decreased so it stopped. I got to play it.
I don't care that your definition of "play" is actually having a comp-match with perfect hit reg.
I'm no fanboy, I just know the difference between bad treatment by a company and fantastic treatment, and we are getting fantastic treatment.
Some examples: - Very little policing of negative comments - Unexpected tailored responses by at least two or three developers to players queries (Cory etc) - News updates even when work is continuing at full pace
The only negative for me so far is the number of times the word "patch" has been in the twitter feed - but it's a minor gripe and only because it's slightly inflammatory. No gripes with today's mention though :)
<!--quoteo(post=1802120:date=Oct 20 2010, 12:23 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Oct 20 2010, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm just desperate for any kind of release so I can start making videos again. But I know UWE has good reasons for holding off. It is a difficult debate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I never said it was playable, which would suggest it being a game. You seem to deliberately read past the obvious fact that is in fact an early Alpha version. Not pre-Alpha mind you, as that would fall into the conundrum of solving the lack of content or stability in an engine test with a few props.
Playing an Alpha does not mean playing a game. Your terminology is simply wrong! An early Alpha release, like we have right here, is inherently unstable when exposed to the various computer systems people have. It has probably only been tested on a few systems, most likely UWE's office computers and friends.
I for one have a very crappy windows installation atm (old and slow, I really need to reinstall) and not the fastest rig out there. However NS2 actually manages to run pretty smoothly, without shadows and tweaking a few other things. And it even manages to barely run multiplayer. Barely, meaning I can move and interact with things. Shooting and hitting stuff is a different story, unless they are stationary <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not to mention the fact that some people actually are able to play this game, even in multiplayer... Heck They are the lucky few... Now please, GTFO and play a game that is not in Alpha <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1802396:date=Oct 23 2010, 12:30 AM:name=Eldon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eldon @ Oct 23 2010, 12:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802396"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're way off the mark on this. I played the alpha, shot some skulks, shot at some lerks really enjoyed having a look around then my enjoyment decreased so it stopped. I got to play it.
I don't care that your definition of "play" is actually having a comp-match with perfect hit reg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO you're referring to to "running" the game/programme as opposed to actually "playing" it. I'm sure any online gamer playing any game online, be it sports, RTS, FPS, or MMO, will agree that a multiplayer game is in no way, shape or form playable if there are phenomenal amounts of lag/FPS problems.
Since the developers have already agreed and acknowledged that it's not playable in the current state (kudos to them for honesty - imagine if they had the aggressive, closed-minded attitude of some of the forumnites on here?), and since many others who have pre-ordered and "played" the hugely flawed Alphas also think it's not playable, I'm more inclined to think that my definition has more weight to it. But I guess you and your opinion/definition rank above the developers and many people on here saying it's not playable because, after all ... ... care to fill in the flanks?
<!--quoteo(post=1802401:date=Oct 22 2010, 05:55 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 22 2010, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not to mention the fact that some people actually are able to play this game, even in multiplayer... Heck They are the lucky few... Now please, GTFO and play a game that is not in Alpha <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's ridiculous how offensive people are to rofldinho, considering he only expressed his opinion. It's perfectly fair for people to be frustrated, as UW has proven to be very good at creating false expectations for their community.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1803499:date=Oct 28 2010, 03:57 PM:name=Dihard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dihard @ Oct 28 2010, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803499"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's ridiculous how offensive people are to rofldinho, considering he only expressed his opinion. It's perfectly fair for people to be frustrated, as UW has proven to be very good at creating false expectations for their community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You really need to read up on internet language. A tongue in cheek smiley is similar to J/K (joking). Not to mention that most people on here know me as either very sarcastic or someone with anti-flame spray <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was just poking a bit of fun at the fact that he apparently does not know or ignores the fact of what an early alpha version is. In both cases he would have been better off with in the beta, where NS2 would actually have taken the shape of a game for gameplay testing purposes...
[edit] I was about to post "You fail at sarcasm", but didn't as I'm guess you'd also consider that as a hostile response to you. Ah well, I think I'm going to tone down my elusive posting habits for now. I've received emails and phone calls from people, who want me to pay for their sarcasm meters...
<!--quoteo(post=1803504:date=Oct 28 2010, 06:24 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 28 2010, 06:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You really need to read up on internet language. A tongue in cheek smiley is similar to J/K (joking).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1803504:date=Oct 28 2010, 04:24 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 28 2010, 04:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You really need to read up on internet language. A tongue in cheek smiley is similar to J/K (joking).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sarcasm is extremely tricky on forums with pure fanboyism, extreme whining, trolling, non-native speakers, smiley spamming and all that represented. I just avoid it in a topic that tends to have most of the aforementioned traits.
This is a banner used by UWE to promote sales of it's product. It clearly says "Play the NS2 Alpha on July 26th. Last chance to play on Day 1...". It's been 3 months since that date and the game is still in an unplayable state...hopefully not for long.
Please don't tell me you're going to argue "but it's not a promise unless they say "we promse"". It's obviously implied. If it makes you happy, use a different term to the word "promise". I'm not really bothered. My point is very simple - they said "play on July 26th", and failed to deliver a playable Alpha version.
FYI I'm not really fussed about this delay at all, I agree fully that UWE should wait until they have fixed the major problems in the networking/performance areas, and I have plenty of other games to play, and this won't change for the forseeable future with Football Manager and Black Ops coming out in two weeks. It's more a case of playing devil's advocate and expressing a justifiable position so that we don't have a group of fanboys aggressively and unanimously condemning everyone who moans about the situation as being "idiots" who "should know what an Alpha is, rofl". My underlying point to all this is that other people are fully justified in being pissed off at the situation if they want to be.
For example, I persuaded a friend to buy this after promoting NS to him (he had never played it), and he got pretty excited about it come July 26th. It's now October 22. I can tell you he's lost all interest in the game and thinks UWE are a laughing stock, a newbie development company unable to code a game adequately, and regrets spending money on this. Maybe some of you couldn't care less about this, after all it's all about you and what you want, and how the game is your game to be enjoyed by you, right? I'd only say that as a fan of NS and UWE, they should care as they've lost a customer in the long term and gained a bad reputation all in the same process. Which is a shame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're making a good argument. Kudos to you for expressing a valid opinion in an articulate way, unlike most illiterate "fanbois" here. UWE should not fall into complacency with the praise of brownosers. They should first and foremost be self-critical about their performance but also take a good look at the discontent of their regular-joe customers (and not the fanbois). I realize they're going through some tough times now. I wish them luck and a much deserved break.
Comments
As it has been stated before your return on investment will probably come after the next patch, when you get to test all the early stuff before any of the beta people.
The next patch does not END playable alpha, it begins it.
Now This is actually exactly what UWE have done, in that they released the concepts for the whip (and flamethrower before that). Sure, it is nothing that we can play, but it still provides us with a sense of progress. Altough I myself would have appreciated a bit more insight on the engine part, I understand that not everything UWE does can be centered about what I want. Thus I happily looks at the twitter stuff for information every day XD.
Then there is also those people who seem to think more frequent patches means more work in less time, thus saying they want patches they know they will test once, and then spend the rest of the time asking for new patches.
All this said, I would still love if there was more updates (for example tweets) about the progress on the engine, as the twitter stuff is rarely more than 10 per week, where most is gameplay related. ;)
Its an alpha, what kind of "enjoyment" were you expecting?..you are complaining because you got a "very buggy alpha" version of the game? lol
Not even close. It looks like he's annoyed because he was lead to believe that he would be part of the alpha development process, which would included a release every week or two -- and hasn't received one for two months. The weekly release timeframe wasn't a promise, so isn't an big letdown, but it is one nonetheless.
I realize it's not quite the same scale as writing an entire game, but the Sourcemod project manages to do builds of every single commit into their source tree, without any sort of issues like you are describing. Plenty of open source projects (that are as big, or bigger then NS2) do nightly builds with none of the sort of issues you are describing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Giving that number of people access to our version control system would be taking things way too far. We want to give people a clear look at our development process but we also need space in which to actually develop. In fact, with the way we have things set up, I don't think there's a way we could give that to people without giving them at least some way of tampering with the build. We don't want that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SVN has read-only capabilities. I've used them before, they work perfectly. More relevantly: I don't think anyone is saying 'give us access to your internal tools', as that's just insane. What they are really trying to say is 'We want builds that are automatically generated at some interval, regardless of what you feel is done'. You can drop zip files of the compiled code into a FTP somewhere for all the people on here care.
Your other two points are sound, I can't really argue them.
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/banners/banner_alpha.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/banners/banner_alpha.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My understanding is after the next huge patch, there will be many smaller patches at shorter time intervals.
Which is why I don't understand the "I got cheated" tears at the moment.
To be honest I wish they'd refund all the people saying this and take away their access, so that when we are all actually testing the next alpha build and the thousands after that they can have another cry and learn that they should have been more patient - and that what they bought was value for money.
Frankly, the fact that you haven't received what you paid for <b>yet</b> is a poor argument for your payment being wasted if that's still coming up.
If the next patch advanced it to beta, then I'd understand.
<ul><li> Our internal builds are full of things that we're not ready to show to the public yet: unfinished maps, art assets, unoptimised code, as well as experimental features that we haven't decided whether or not to include.</li><li> Even though it's an alpha, some quality control is necessary when you're dealing with a large number of paying customers. You can't expect the majority of them to understand quite how much things change over the course of game development.</li><li> The development build is updated quite often - sometimes several times a day. Getting that out to 15,000-odd people would be a technical nightmare; it would be hard for players to keep track of changes and hard for us to follow their feedback. It'd be a pretty messy situation.</li><li> Giving that number of people access to our version control system would be taking things way too far. We want to give people a clear look at our development process but we also need space in which to actually develop. In fact, with the way we have things set up, I don't think there's a way we could give that to people without giving them at least some way of tampering with the build. We don't want that.</li></ul>
I realise waiting for this next patch can be frustrating, but I don't think things would be improved (for us or for the players) by giving access to dev builds. Given that we're holding up the next patch to make the game playable for everyone, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by giving them access to raw, untested development builds of the game. We wanted to update the game more frequently, and we hope to go back to that after this next big patch is released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one understand this fully and support you 100%. I can't wait until this game is more playable. It'll all be worth it!
citing minecraft alpha is a poor choice. generally indie games dont really follow alpha/beta rules very well. e.g. dwarf fortress, which has been playable for years and yet is still considered 'alpha'.
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/banners/banner_alpha.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Notice the text in big, orange letters? If an Alpha inherently isn't meant to be "Playable" as so many Alpha-industry-experts on here have stated time and time again, then why did UWE advertise it as that? Was it a typo? An honest mistake?
Or is it that it's NOT an UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE INTARWEBS RARRRRRRR that an Alpha can't be played? And that some people on this forum are talking ###### and defining the rules just to defend their beloved UWE? Why is Shogun 2, at pre-alpha stage looking like it's playable? Why is Minecraft Alpha playable? How do you know if alpha = playable or not if most of the industry doesn't allow random nobodies like us to test them (which in turn means that an Alpha being playable or not might just differ from game to game)? Surely it's POSSIBLE that an alpha can be "playable", that this is what UWE intended, and what UWE has thus far failed to deliver nearly 3 months after "release", which in turn has justifiably pissed a few people off who paid good money for the game and the early "Playable" access?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played the alpha. If you haven't already, stop complaining and do it. If you're dissatisfied with the program you were given, too bad. That's the alpha that's out right now. If you don't like what's out now, don't play it again till beta - you probably won't like it before that's released.
I dunno about anyone else, but I paid the extra cash to support UWE and thank them for NS1. (well, and get that black armor) I got bored of the current alpha build 2 days after it came out, and I don't map. Know what I do? Shut up and wait patiently for the next build, which I will likely play for two days, then stop.
When the final version is out, I will play for more time than is healthy. For now, I have other games to keep me busy.
Doing what those projects are doing would require an infrastructure change that would take time away from development; after all, I expect most of those projects were intended to work that way from the very beginning. I'd rather the time were spent getting the next patch sorted, and I bet the others would to.
<!--quoteo(post=1802287:date=Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM:name=devicenull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (devicenull @ Oct 22 2010, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SVN has read-only capabilities. I've used them before, they work perfectly. More relevantly: I don't think anyone is saying 'give us access to your internal tools', as that's just insane. What they are really trying to say is 'We want builds that are automatically generated at some interval, regardless of what you feel is done'. You can drop zip files of the compiled code into a FTP somewhere for all the people on here care.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We actually distribute internal builds using Dropbox, which I don't think lets you set things like read-only permissions (not yet anyway). It seemed to me like the OP was sort of saying 'give us access to your internal tools', but if he wasn't then fair enough. As you say, there are other sound reasons for not doing this.
Hopefully other people do realise that the UW team are working on producing the game - when they have a decent patch, as they have been saying for a while now, they will ship it.
Asking them to spend time in getting SVN access or nightly builds working is unreasonable; they have a limited budget and resources and the time should be spent on the actual game/engine and not managing a build system for the public to use; and then the ongoing support burden that would bring along with it.
I am sure that once the game is in a more solid and playable alpha state (when this next patch arrives) updates will be a lot easier in the future because one of the biggest road blocks to getting the game playable and testable would have been resolved.
I dunno about anyone else, but I paid the extra cash to support UWE and thank them for NS1. (well, and get that black armor) I got bored of the current alpha build 2 days after it came out, and I don't map. Know what I do? Shut up and wait patiently for the next build, which I will likely play for two days, then stop.
When the final version is out, I will play for more time than is healthy. For now, I have other games to keep me busy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Award for the daftest response I've had in ages goes to yours truly. All that just because I posted the image of UWE clearly advertising the game as being playable on July 26th as part of it's sales pitch, something which they've clearly failed to deliver as the game is unplayable. If you think merely running a programme constitutes "playable", then that's your (highly flawed) interpretation of the word. For a multiplayer-only game that has severe lag issues, I think most normal folk would agree it makes the game unplayable.
But anyway, this is one unfortunate problem with this place, and indeed it's common with many other developers' forums. Too many fanboys who go all psycho-Nazi on someone with a different opinion to themselves that involves a bit of criticism around the game/developers/etc. "Stop complaining", "shut up", "you do this because I say so", "I do this so you must do same". Who are you, Kim Jong Il? I couldn't care less what you do or don't do. Calm down, get off your high horse, and learn to accept that an internet forum will have different opinions with people who don't think or act like you, and you certainly are in no position to think that you're right or doing things the correct way.
UWE need to learn from their mistakes if they're to survive in the long term. Imagine if they do this sort of thing a number of times? They'll gain a bad reputation in no time at all, when they could have avoided the situation entirely by not making promises they didn't need to make. This was their first attempt at a big retail game, so it's understandable, but at the same time that doesn't exempt them from criticism, especially in a fast paced industry like video games. Like any games company, if they fail to deliver on a promise, then people have a right to complain. If you don't like that, then that's your problem. Maybe you should just expand on your own advice and philosophies, and learn to shut up if you see other people expressing their discontent, especially if you have absolutely nothing constructive to say on the matter, as per above?
UWE promised what now?
An Alpha can range from anything that is an buggy engine test to a seemingly complete or somewhat stable game that does not leave the Alpha status until it it is complete... Obviously the NS2 Alpha is quite similar to an engine test, that runs on some machines and completely kills the FPS on others...
But you can still "Play the NS2 Alpha", the fact that it is laggy and crashing on certain hardware/software combination is now being worked on. Again, they now know more about these issues with the engine, because of the Alpha access. Which all helps with the ongoing development of the engine.
That is actually what playing an alpha means in this case... FEEDBACK for UWE is our purpose right now. And if you're lucky actually walk around in the game. Or if you're really lucky, you could actually play the game. If people expected more from an early alpha version then that is their own damn fault...
Supporting the troops (UWE) with that extra cashflow also is one of the things that helped UWE. Heck I think it saved the EXO suit
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/banners/banner_alpha.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is a banner used by UWE to promote sales of it's product. It clearly says "Play the NS2 Alpha on July 26th. Last chance to play on Day 1...". It's been 3 months since that date and the game is still in an unplayable state...hopefully not for long.
Please don't tell me you're going to argue "but it's not a promise unless they say "we promse"". It's obviously implied. If it makes you happy, use a different term to the word "promise". I'm not really bothered. My point is very simple - they said "play on July 26th", and failed to deliver a playable Alpha version.
FYI I'm not really fussed about this delay at all, I agree fully that UWE should wait until they have fixed the major problems in the networking/performance areas, and I have plenty of other games to play, and this won't change for the forseeable future with Football Manager and Black Ops coming out in two weeks. It's more a case of playing devil's advocate and expressing a justifiable position so that we don't have a group of fanboys aggressively and unanimously condemning everyone who moans about the situation as being "idiots" who "should know what an Alpha is, rofl". My underlying point to all this is that other people are fully justified in being pissed off at the situation if they want to be.
For example, I persuaded a friend to buy this after promoting NS to him (he had never played it), and he got pretty excited about it come July 26th. It's now October 22. I can tell you he's lost all interest in the game and thinks UWE are a laughing stock, a newbie development company unable to code a game adequately, and regrets spending money on this. Maybe some of you couldn't care less about this, after all it's all about you and what you want, and how the game is your game to be enjoyed by you, right? I'd only say that as a fan of NS and UWE, they should care as they've lost a customer in the long term and gained a bad reputation all in the same process. Which is a shame.
An Alpha can range from anything that is an buggy engine test to a seemingly complete or somewhat stable game that does not leave the Alpha status until it it is complete... Obviously the NS2 Alpha is quite similar to an engine test, that runs on some machines and completely kills the FPS on others...
But you can still "Play the NS2 Alpha", the fact that it is laggy and crashing on certain hardware/software combination is now being worked on. Again, they now know more about these issues with the engine, because of the Alpha access. Which all helps with the ongoing development of the engine.
That is actually what playing an alpha means in this case... FEEDBACK for UWE is our purpose right now. And if you're lucky actually walk around in the game. Or if you're really lucky, you could actually play the game. If people expected more from an early alpha version then that is their own damn fault...
Supporting the troops (UWE) with that extra cashflow also is one of the things that helped UWE. Heck I think it saved the EXO suit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surely you see the contradiction in the first and second part of your post?
If an Alpha is inherently unplayable, than it was UWE's responsibility to word their advertising banners differently. They should have put "test" instead of "play", or something else at least. The two terms mean very different things to a gamer, games are there to be played, they're playable if they're working as intended to a degree of competency, and hence it's pretty obvious that "play" refers to a game that is in a "playable" state.
So this was a mistake on UWE's part if we accept what you say.
However, I don't accept what you say, because it's a common view on here made to appease complaints directed at NS2/UWE. Firstly, clearly UWE intended the Alpha relase to be "playable". Secondly, there's no hard and fast rule that an Alpha has to be buggy, unplayable, etc etc. As stated earlier, people are just making the rules up on here to defend UWE. I have a friend who has a Masters in Games Design, and he's stated that an Alpha is commonly playable with core mechanisms working - hence why you have a pre-alpha. The Beta is then the more polished stage where the additional features are added prior to going final. If you want to discard what he's said, fine, but the previous point stands in that an Alpha being "playable" will differ from game to game and developer to developer. I mentioned Shogun 2 as an exmaple (which I see was ignored), as that is in pre-alpha stage, yet from in-game footage it looks pretty playable.
Hence why I took issue with what UWE advertised. If they advertise an Alpha as being playable by saying "Play the Alpha on this date", then that's what it should be - playable. That is what your average gamer, who isn't an overnight Alpha-industry-expert like many on here seem to be, would assume. If it's not mean, then what they used to promote sales of the game turned out to be false advertising. And that's unfortunately what has happened.
And FYI, I could easily say "if you think differently, then that's your problem". But it's kind of a fail arguement used by people to close off debateable points that they've made. Kind of like me saying "I'm right, so this is the end of the debate".
I think you're way off the mark on this. I played the alpha, shot some skulks, shot at some lerks really enjoyed having a look around then my enjoyment decreased so it stopped. I got to play it.
I don't care that your definition of "play" is actually having a comp-match with perfect hit reg.
I'm no fanboy, I just know the difference between bad treatment by a company and fantastic treatment, and we are getting fantastic treatment.
Some examples:
- Very little policing of negative comments
- Unexpected tailored responses by at least two or three developers to players queries (Cory etc)
- News updates even when work is continuing at full pace
The only negative for me so far is the number of times the word "patch" has been in the twitter feed - but it's a minor gripe and only because it's slightly inflammatory. No gripes with today's mention though :)
The banner says PLAY the alpha. I sure know I PLAYED the alpha. They've delivered, gg.
Keep up the excellent work though!
Playing an Alpha does not mean playing a game. Your terminology is simply wrong! An early Alpha release, like we have right here, is inherently unstable when exposed to the various computer systems people have. It has probably only been tested on a few systems, most likely UWE's office computers and friends.
I for one have a very crappy windows installation atm (old and slow, I really need to reinstall) and not the fastest rig out there. However NS2 actually manages to run pretty smoothly, without shadows and tweaking a few other things. And it even manages to barely run multiplayer. Barely, meaning I can move and interact with things. Shooting and hitting stuff is a different story, unless they are stationary <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not to mention the fact that some people actually are able to play this game, even in multiplayer... Heck They are the lucky few... Now please, GTFO and play a game that is not in Alpha <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I don't care that your definition of "play" is actually having a comp-match with perfect hit reg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO you're referring to to "running" the game/programme as opposed to actually "playing" it. I'm sure any online gamer playing any game online, be it sports, RTS, FPS, or MMO, will agree that a multiplayer game is in no way, shape or form playable if there are phenomenal amounts of lag/FPS problems.
Since the developers have already agreed and acknowledged that it's not playable in the current state (kudos to them for honesty - imagine if they had the aggressive, closed-minded attitude of some of the forumnites on here?), and since many others who have pre-ordered and "played" the hugely flawed Alphas also think it's not playable, I'm more inclined to think that my definition has more weight to it. But I guess you and your opinion/definition rank above the developers and many people on here saying it's not playable because, after all ... ... care to fill in the flanks?
It's ridiculous how offensive people are to rofldinho, considering he only expressed his opinion. It's perfectly fair for people to be frustrated, as UW has proven to be very good at creating false expectations for their community.
You really need to read up on internet language. A tongue in cheek smiley is similar to J/K (joking). Not to mention that most people on here know me as either very sarcastic or someone with anti-flame spray <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was just poking a bit of fun at the fact that he apparently does not know or ignores the fact of what an early alpha version is. In both cases he would have been better off with in the beta, where NS2 would actually have taken the shape of a game for gameplay testing purposes...
[edit]
I was about to post "You fail at sarcasm", but didn't as I'm guess you'd also consider that as a hostile response to you. Ah well, I think I'm going to tone down my elusive posting habits for now. I've received emails and phone calls from people, who want me to pay for their sarcasm meters...
J/K means joking?
######, I gotta apologize to Sarah right now!
Sarcasm is extremely tricky on forums with pure fanboyism, extreme whining, trolling, non-native speakers, smiley spamming and all that represented. I just avoid it in a topic that tends to have most of the aforementioned traits.
This is a banner used by UWE to promote sales of it's product. It clearly says "Play the NS2 Alpha on July 26th. Last chance to play on Day 1...". It's been 3 months since that date and the game is still in an unplayable state...hopefully not for long.
Please don't tell me you're going to argue "but it's not a promise unless they say "we promse"". It's obviously implied. If it makes you happy, use a different term to the word "promise". I'm not really bothered. My point is very simple - they said "play on July 26th", and failed to deliver a playable Alpha version.
FYI I'm not really fussed about this delay at all, I agree fully that UWE should wait until they have fixed the major problems in the networking/performance areas, and I have plenty of other games to play, and this won't change for the forseeable future with Football Manager and Black Ops coming out in two weeks. It's more a case of playing devil's advocate and expressing a justifiable position so that we don't have a group of fanboys aggressively and unanimously condemning everyone who moans about the situation as being "idiots" who "should know what an Alpha is, rofl". My underlying point to all this is that other people are fully justified in being pissed off at the situation if they want to be.
For example, I persuaded a friend to buy this after promoting NS to him (he had never played it), and he got pretty excited about it come July 26th. It's now October 22. I can tell you he's lost all interest in the game and thinks UWE are a laughing stock, a newbie development company unable to code a game adequately, and regrets spending money on this. Maybe some of you couldn't care less about this, after all it's all about you and what you want, and how the game is your game to be enjoyed by you, right? I'd only say that as a fan of NS and UWE, they should care as they've lost a customer in the long term and gained a bad reputation all in the same process. Which is a shame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're making a good argument. Kudos to you for expressing a valid opinion in an articulate way, unlike most illiterate "fanbois" here.
UWE should not fall into complacency with the praise of brownosers. They should first and foremost be self-critical about their performance but also take a good look at the discontent of their regular-joe customers (and not the fanbois).
I realize they're going through some tough times now. I wish them luck and a much deserved break.