QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1803765:date=Oct 29 2010, 11:50 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 29 2010, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys aren't really getting the full effect of the blink, since the effects and model has been removed, which includes a ghost model version of the Fade showing you where exactly you are going to end up. It will make more sense when that stuff is put back in. It actually works really nicely, and with a little practice you can blink around quite fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems to be in there to me. I see the ghost model and all the nifty sound effects. I like it all (effects are really awesome)! I'm just concerned about the gameplay mechanic. I think having a one-click blink would be best. As suggested, have the ghost model appear when you press down on the right mouse button, and then blink to that location when you release the button. I think that would be perfect.
<!--quoteo(post=1803774:date=Oct 29 2010, 08:17 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Oct 29 2010, 08:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As suggested, have the ghost model appear when you press down on the right mouse button, and then blink to that location when you release the button. I think that would be perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm willing to bet you I can do a double click just as fast as you can click, hold down and release. The system is very easy, very fast, and less accidental and touchy as a holding release system, and easier to cancel out of instead of accidentally blinking when you don't want to.
You click once, instantly the ghost model of a fade appears exactly in the place you are going to end up. You can move the fade model around around all over the screen for as long as you want, and it will change location in the map automatically. When you are happy with where you are blinking to, you click again. You can click with the other button to cancel out of it. You can also click and instantly click again, without having to worry about where the fade ghost model is, in case you don't care, or get good enough to judge distance and placement based on where you're mouse cursor is. Seems pretty simple and fast to me.
Fade blink seems super duper cool to me. I love how it sort of grabs on to ledges/catwalks so that I can quickly blink on up to them without worrying about falling. I think click and hold to bring up ghost + release to blink would be simpler (and you could just cancel out by left clicking, which seems just as easy as canceling out by right clicking in the current way) but other than that it's neato.
<!--quoteo(post=1803815:date=Oct 30 2010, 01:14 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 30 2010, 01:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm willing to bet you I can do a double click just as fast as you can click, hold down and release. The system is very easy, very fast, and less accidental and touchy as a holding release system, and easier to cancel out of instead of accidentally blinking when you don't want to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my experience in building very simple control inputs for fairly complex systems (I control my under-seat car music laptop with two pushbuttons), I can say that the more states a system can be in when the user is not directly interacting with it, the more confusing it can get. When you're whizzing around like a madman, select blink while you might've been swiping at a marine, you can't be sure if you put it into "ghost mode" or not, you just have to click and see, which might blink, or it might put it into ghost mode. In a hectic situation the ghost model may not be immediately apparent.
I reckon a hold-for-ghost-release-for-blink setup would be easier, faster and less confusing for new players. It give you quick egress by default, or more control if required.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2010
Cory, you're saying you can press and release two different buttons faster than I can press and release one? I'll take you up on that bet. If you don't care about precision (or are experienced enough to know where it's going to go), you just quickly press and release one button and you blink. If you want more precision (i.e. in a non-combat situation), you can hold down the button to precisely setup the blink. Seems simple to me. As it is, you have to fully press and release two DIFFERENT buttons for one action. While it may seem ok in testing, try doing that in a combat situation where every millisecond counts. It's easy to get confused when you have to press so many different buttons to do what you want. Not to mention there is a finite delay between when you can press right and left mouse buttons. Try it in game. You can't do it as fast as you think because the game can't register the keypresses fast enough. Seems like there is always at least a half second delay between bringing up the ghost and initiating the blink, no matter how fast you click the buttons.
I guess the hardcore players could set up a macro or script to do this, but seems like there will always be a minimum delay.
Quovatis is right, there is currently a huge delay in-game. However, this may be exacerbated by the general input delay issue. We'll have to see how it feels when that's fixed.
I'm sure that when the Fade is fully released, a more meaningful debate will be possible. As it stands, Build 152 contains the development scraps and the blink mechanism may not even be the one they have in their current internal build.
Even if it is, the current interface is causing input lag. It's not possible to provide meaningful feedback on this mechanism when an unrelated problem is restricting its use.
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1803834:date=Oct 29 2010, 11:21 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 29 2010, 11:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the subject of hold to aim + release to Blink:
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the extremely rare case that you want to cancel, I guess left click could do that. But that's the wrong way to think of it. It's like leap. You push the button and you leap...you can't change your mind. Point it at your feet if you don't want to go anywhere.
I'm just raising this issue and the delay issue to express my concern. I know it's nowhere near finished, but now is the time to start thinking about these things...not when 20 hours of work has gone into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1803818:date=Oct 30 2010, 03:32 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Oct 30 2010, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I reckon a hold-for-ghost-release-for-blink setup would be easier, faster and less confusing for new players. It give you quick egress by default, or more control if required.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think in general a single held down key is far more responsive than a toggle key. At least I switch away all the toggles whenever I can in faster games.
<!--quoteo(post=1803834:date=Oct 30 2010, 01:21 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 30 2010, 01:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the subject of hold to aim + release to Blink:
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Current system: right click and release to aim, left click to blink, right click to cancel. It takes two clicks no matter what you do.
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1803318:date=Oct 28 2010, 02:29 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Oct 28 2010, 02:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a release engineer where I work, I am very much not surprised by this. Agile code releasing (which Valve's Steam isn't fast enough to offer.. also UWE would require a release engineer to offload the work of current development) is the only way to really get the public involved in rapid bug testing/fixing. The more monolithic a release is, the less likely it will "just work" the way people expect. Essentially, UWE doesn't have a "fully realized" QA team because their internal team isn't large enough and the public alpha players aren't given rapid enough iterations. It's not their fault, either; they certainly don't have the cash to hire a professional team and pulling in the public to do the work is more difficult than you think (NDAs and unprofessionalism rear their ugly heads here) but rather the fault of Steam's inability to allow a faster code iteration pipe.
I highly doubt you need my suggestions, Flayra and the rest, but just consider having build 153 not include additional features and bug fixes, but rather <i>just</i> a network fix? At least that way you could isolate the code you believe is the cause of current problems rather than have a pile of other code obfuscate the source. Considering you're willing to wait 2 months to release a patch "that people will want to play" I'm sure you're willing to branch off your trunk for a pure network fix release, yeah?
Edit: Ah this all assumes it really does end up being just one or two fixable issues. Reading the thread it seems like there are a few different things that may have just all come together to screw performance over.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Steam has private server option: if there are few enough testers you can host your own Steam server updated as often as you only want.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited October 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1803838:date=Oct 30 2010, 12:01 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Oct 30 2010, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Current system: right click and release to aim, left click to blink, right click to cancel. It takes two clicks no matter what you do.
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with suggestion. It leads itself to a very natural right click to instant-blink, and right hold to be more accurate... i don't really know if canceling blink is a necessity, but if it is, it seems like this would be a good compromise.
Another point here: If this is supposed to be like nightcrawler and able to be used in combat, I would think there would need to be an option to auto-orient towards your the nearest marine or something. Would still require fast aim, but I think some sort of orientation assistance is going to be necessary to really make great use of this.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems pretty simple and fast to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
Haters are gonna hate, just try it out a bit guys, stop whining :p
<!--quoteo(post=1803838:date=Oct 30 2010, 04:01 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Oct 30 2010, 04:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Current system: right click and release to aim, left click to blink, right click to cancel. It takes two clicks no matter what you do.
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems like a good idea, if they are set on having a cancel.
I think people want it to be more like NS1, but I felt that the fade then filled a more dynamic role, like a mix between skulk/lerk. If you play lerk on LAN you can literally fly the whole level on glide. Wing flaps do not effect your weapon (bug? I think it is better) and you could achieve some awesome attack runs.
With the current system for fade, you can move very quickly out of danger. I don't know what people are complaining about? You have to consider that it has higher damage then the classes below it. It is easy to blink around the level very quickly.
Blink also means you don't know where (I know it is facing a 'certain' direction) it will be next. Because it does not move between two points through the air, so when out of view god knows where it will be next.
With this method you can literally lie in wait completely quiet, and beam in directly within a group of marines. Kill all of them, or blink out after a kill.
I think the hinderance from flying fade in NS1 is a good decision, it divides the classes better and gives each a use and weakness.
The only thing I think that should change is currently there seems to be a distance limit on the blink. I think that should be extended to 'as far as I can see', because the extra time taken to aim further and more accurately will compensate for the extra advantage (anyone tried blinking down long corridors with obstacles in the way, it is harder!).
We're talking about the controls, not that the old fly-blink was better. Nobody has said anything about the old blink being better. I'm not sure how you got the idea.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think people want it to be more like NS1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said I think, and I'm also right in thinking so. Many on here have stated how much 'quicker' it should be, which would make it more in line with NS1s fade.
At what point do you realise that this is not all inter-twined? Changing the blink method will change dynamics that will alter many parts of the game dramatically. So when you concern yourself with changing one thing, you have to consider the broad affects it could have on the game. Also relating to that of different classes, because classes are there '<u>to fill a role</u>'.
My point being, that it is already very quick. Making it quicker would convert the class back along the lines of the NS1s fade and would alter the strengths/weaknesses of the different alien classes and how they work together.
<!--quoteo(post=1803266:date=Oct 27 2010, 11:52 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 27 2010, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damn, sorry there are so many problems. We've been testing mostly on a LAN with 4-6 players at a time (although we do some larger scale testing too) and we haven't seen issues like this.
We're trying to figure out what's causing these problems right now!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm a developer myself and before I take something a client for testing I make sure I test it properly. In your case if you're making a game that is going to be used 99% of the time online then you should do some major testing online. I hope its just lack of experience that's the cause of this, and we won't see this in the future.
When I read the comments here I don't think it has any point for me to try the update. Ill wait for the next.
<!--quoteo(post=1803858:date=Oct 30 2010, 09:32 AM:name=GeneralBowser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneralBowser @ Oct 30 2010, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a developer myself and before I take something a client for testing I make sure I test it properly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You provide your customers with alpha builds, with involve very complex interactions between sites both over LAN and internet with various different configurations of hardware/software?
DY357LXPlaying since day 1. Still can't Comm.EnglandJoin Date: 2002-10-27Member: 1651Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1803300:date=Oct 28 2010, 12:49 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 28 2010, 12:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alpha testers in the servers aren't that helpful either. The ones that get good FPS just play the game and ignore any attempts to communicate on my part <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/nonono.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I did get a funny response from one guy, "We're testing the deathtriggers"
<!--quoteo(post=1803863:date=Oct 30 2010, 04:16 PM:name=carlgm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (carlgm @ Oct 30 2010, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You provide your customers with alpha builds, with involve very complex interactions between sites both over LAN and Internet with various different configurations of hardware/software?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, but I design corporate applications instead of games, so the ranges and types of configurations are different. It is customary that we steam up an Alpha build as soon as possible so that any miscommunication with the customer about what is expected of the application is dealt with as soon as possible.
Releasing this build is like us saying to a Linux-using company "Here's an application, we haven't tested it on Linux, but it works fine on Windows".
I understand that there are some die-hard fans whom's toes I stepped onto but I call it like I see it. Releases like these just shouldn't happen. I am only waiting for the lag issues to end so I can do some decent testing. I'm a fan as well , and I don't mind waiting but I don't like how my confidence in Unknown World is smashed with releases like these.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1803866:date=Oct 30 2010, 04:27 PM:name=DY357LX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DY357LX @ Oct 30 2010, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was that me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, I do believe it was!
I agree that testing the game almost entirely in LAN play is very silly and I'm surprised they did that again after last time. But I think they probably would still have missed a lot of this stuff because it's different for everyone and they have very few internal testers. IMO the solution is just much more frequent alpha patches with the understanding that sometimes things will break, just so they find out about it right away.
<!--quoteo(post=1803868:date=Oct 30 2010, 12:26 PM:name=GeneralBowser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneralBowser @ Oct 30 2010, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, but I design corporate applications instead of games, so the ranges and types of configurations are different. It is customary that we steam up an Alpha build as soon as possible so that any miscommunication with the customer about what is expected of the application is dealt with as soon as possible.
Releasing this build is like us saying to a Linux-using company "Here's an application, we haven't tested it on Linux, but it works fine on Windows".
I understand that there are some die-hard fans whom's toes I stepped onto but I call it like I see it. Releases like these just shouldn't happen. I am only waiting for the lag issues to end so I can do some decent testing. I'm a fan as well , and I don't mind waiting but I don't like how my confidence in Unknown World is smashed with releases like these.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, except that we are NOT a client of Unkown Worlds, and we have NOT specifically ordered a custom application designed around our hypothetical "Linux" system. If you have to go with the analogy of us being clients to company software, we're like a client that has opted into a test of upcoming software. It's not guaranteed to run on our "Linux" system or on ANY system with any degree of stability. We opt into this test in good faith that UWE has promised it will eventually be a complete product that works for everyone who meets the minimum requirements. Having known this and signed whatever agreement, clients still come in and complain instead of giving legit feedback. Even those who can't run it can give feedback by reporting such, and possibly troubleshooting why it's not running on their system/configuration/"Linux"/LAN/internet/whatever.
I'll tell you right now, I can't really test anything online because the connection issues are so bad. Even I found something small to contribute - hydra spam needs limits for the sake of technical strain.
Well, I dont understand why they dont let a select few Internet users be part of their "real" alpha testing, because testing over LAN on their work computers doesnt seem to match a real world environment at all.
I thought they already had a dedicated play-tester group that would test all the time, over the internet.
Overseeing external playtests, getting enough players together at the same time to test who are in many different time zones, and making sure the feedback is useful, vetting people to insure that they are trustworthy (we've had some issues with leaks), is a surprisingly complicated and time consuming process.
We understand the current process was not working out well, however, and have taken some significant steps to get a process in place that should work much better now.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overseeing external playtests, getting enough players together at the same time to test who are in many different time zones, and making sure the feedback is useful, vetting people to insure that they are trustworthy (we've had some issues with leaks), is a surprisingly complicated and time consuming process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you remove leap and push it to a different upgrade, can you please still leave it as an alternative for bite? So, Up0 = Bite - Primary, no Secondary Up1 = Leap - Secondary for Bite.
Though that does remove one Secondary fire to a Skulk ability.
<i>Alternatively to this</i>, if there is too much rage about the aforementioned suggestion: Make leap either selectable (press #2) or instant access like NS1 by pressing R. In this option: Up0 = Bite - Primary, Secondary = Parasite? Up1 = Leap - Primary, Secondary = "Alacrity"? *
*Temporary Speed boost - Maybe makes a loud screeching sound? Consumes lots of energy - cannot bite/leap after this Upgrade from a (Movement/Alien Comm) chamber adds a dodge-bullet ability - like Scouts in TF2?
Comments
Seems to be in there to me. I see the ghost model and all the nifty sound effects. I like it all (effects are really awesome)! I'm just concerned about the gameplay mechanic. I think having a one-click blink would be best. As suggested, have the ghost model appear when you press down on the right mouse button, and then blink to that location when you release the button. I think that would be perfect.
I'm willing to bet you I can do a double click just as fast as you can click, hold down and release. The system is very easy, very fast, and less accidental and touchy as a holding release system, and easier to cancel out of instead of accidentally blinking when you don't want to.
You click once, instantly the ghost model of a fade appears exactly in the place you are going to end up. You can move the fade model around around all over the screen for as long as you want, and it will change location in the map automatically. When you are happy with where you are blinking to, you click again. You can click with the other button to cancel out of it. You can also click and instantly click again, without having to worry about where the fade ghost model is, in case you don't care, or get good enough to judge distance and placement based on where you're mouse cursor is. Seems pretty simple and fast to me.
--Cory
From my experience in building very simple control inputs for fairly complex systems (I control my under-seat car music laptop with two pushbuttons), I can say that the more states a system can be in when the user is not directly interacting with it, the more confusing it can get. When you're whizzing around like a madman, select blink while you might've been swiping at a marine, you can't be sure if you put it into "ghost mode" or not, you just have to click and see, which might blink, or it might put it into ghost mode. In a hectic situation the ghost model may not be immediately apparent.
I reckon a hold-for-ghost-release-for-blink setup would be easier, faster and less confusing for new players. It give you quick egress by default, or more control if required.
--Scythe--
I guess the hardcore players could set up a macro or script to do this, but seems like there will always be a minimum delay.
Even if it is, the current interface is causing input lag. It's not possible to provide meaningful feedback on this mechanism when an unrelated problem is restricting its use.
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the extremely rare case that you want to cancel, I guess left click could do that. But that's the wrong way to think of it. It's like leap. You push the button and you leap...you can't change your mind. Point it at your feet if you don't want to go anywhere.
I'm just raising this issue and the delay issue to express my concern. I know it's nowhere near finished, but now is the time to start thinking about these things...not when 20 hours of work has gone into it.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think in general a single held down key is far more responsive than a toggle key. At least I switch away all the toggles whenever I can in faster games.
What you gonna do if you click on accident, or you decide not to Blink? No way to cancel that, unless you.... involve another button to cancel. Oops we're back to two buttons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Current system: right click and release to aim, left click to blink, right click to cancel. It takes two clicks no matter what you do.
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.
I highly doubt you need my suggestions, Flayra and the rest, but just consider having build 153 not include additional features and bug fixes, but rather <i>just</i> a network fix? At least that way you could isolate the code you believe is the cause of current problems rather than have a pile of other code obfuscate the source. Considering you're willing to wait 2 months to release a patch "that people will want to play" I'm sure you're willing to branch off your trunk for a pure network fix release, yeah?
Edit: Ah this all assumes it really does end up being just one or two fixable issues. Reading the thread it seems like there are a few different things that may have just all come together to screw performance over.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Steam has private server option: if there are few enough testers you can host your own Steam server updated as often as you only want.
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with suggestion. It leads itself to a very natural right click to instant-blink, and right hold to be more accurate... i don't really know if canceling blink is a necessity, but if it is, it seems like this would be a good compromise.
Another point here: If this is supposed to be like nightcrawler and able to be used in combat, I would think there would need to be an option to auto-orient towards your the nearest marine or something. Would still require fast aim, but I think some sort of orientation assistance is going to be necessary to really make great use of this.
Seconded.
Haters are gonna hate, just try it out a bit guys, stop whining :p
Suggested system: right click to aim, release to blink, left click to cancel. It takes one click to blink, two clicks to cancel.
So worst case scenario it's just as fast, during normal usage it is faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems like a good idea, if they are set on having a cancel.
With the current system for fade, you can move very quickly out of danger. I don't know what people are complaining about? You have to consider that it has higher damage then the classes below it. It is easy to blink around the level very quickly.
Blink also means you don't know where (I know it is facing a 'certain' direction) it will be next. Because it does not move between two points through the air, so when out of view god knows where it will be next.
With this method you can literally lie in wait completely quiet, and beam in directly within a group of marines. Kill all of them, or blink out after a kill.
I think the hinderance from flying fade in NS1 is a good decision, it divides the classes better and gives each a use and weakness.
The only thing I think that should change is currently there seems to be a distance limit on the blink. I think that should be extended to 'as far as I can see', because the extra time taken to aim further and more accurately will compensate for the extra advantage (anyone tried blinking down long corridors with obstacles in the way, it is harder!).
I said I think, and I'm also right in thinking so. Many on here have stated how much 'quicker' it should be, which would make it more in line with NS1s fade.
At what point do you realise that this is not all inter-twined? Changing the blink method will change dynamics that will alter many parts of the game dramatically. So when you concern yourself with changing one thing, you have to consider the broad affects it could have on the game. Also relating to that of different classes, because classes are there '<u>to fill a role</u>'.
My point being, that it is already very quick. Making it quicker would convert the class back along the lines of the NS1s fade and would alter the strengths/weaknesses of the different alien classes and how they work together.
We're trying to figure out what's causing these problems right now!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm a developer myself and before I take something a client for testing I make sure I test it properly. In your case if you're making a game that is going to be used 99% of the time online then you should do some major testing online.
I hope its just lack of experience that's the cause of this, and we won't see this in the future.
When I read the comments here I don't think it has any point for me to try the update. Ill wait for the next.
You provide your customers with alpha builds, with involve very complex interactions between sites both over LAN and internet with various different configurations of hardware/software?
I did get a funny response from one guy, "We're testing the deathtriggers"
Indeed <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was that me?
Anyone mention how LARGE the mouse cursors are in-game? It looks.. not great.
Yes, but I design corporate applications instead of games, so the ranges and types of configurations are different.
It is customary that we steam up an Alpha build as soon as possible so that any miscommunication with the customer about what is expected of the application is dealt with as soon as possible.
Releasing this build is like us saying to a Linux-using company "Here's an application, we haven't tested it on Linux, but it works fine on Windows".
I understand that there are some die-hard fans whom's toes I stepped onto but I call it like I see it. Releases like these just shouldn't happen. I am only waiting for the lag issues to end so I can do some decent testing. I'm a fan as well , and I don't mind waiting but I don't like how my confidence in Unknown World is smashed with releases like these.
You know, I do believe it was!
It is customary that we steam up an Alpha build as soon as possible so that any miscommunication with the customer about what is expected of the application is dealt with as soon as possible.
Releasing this build is like us saying to a Linux-using company "Here's an application, we haven't tested it on Linux, but it works fine on Windows".
I understand that there are some die-hard fans whom's toes I stepped onto but I call it like I see it. Releases like these just shouldn't happen. I am only waiting for the lag issues to end so I can do some decent testing. I'm a fan as well , and I don't mind waiting but I don't like how my confidence in Unknown World is smashed with releases like these.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, except that we are NOT a client of Unkown Worlds, and we have NOT specifically ordered a custom application designed around our hypothetical "Linux" system. If you have to go with the analogy of us being clients to company software, we're like a client that has opted into a test of upcoming software. It's not guaranteed to run on our "Linux" system or on ANY system with any degree of stability. We opt into this test in good faith that UWE has promised it will eventually be a complete product that works for everyone who meets the minimum requirements.
Having known this and signed whatever agreement, clients still come in and complain instead of giving legit feedback. Even those who can't run it can give feedback by reporting such, and possibly troubleshooting why it's not running on their system/configuration/"Linux"/LAN/internet/whatever.
I'll tell you right now, I can't really test anything online because the connection issues are so bad. Even I found something small to contribute - hydra spam needs limits for the sake of technical strain.
I thought they already had a dedicated play-tester group that would test all the time, over the internet.
We understand the current process was not working out well, however, and have taken some significant steps to get a process in place that should work much better now.
--Cory
Oh I totally see that :\
So,
Up0 = Bite - Primary, no Secondary
Up1 = Leap - Secondary for Bite.
Though that does remove one Secondary fire to a Skulk ability.
<i>Alternatively to this</i>, if there is too much rage about the aforementioned suggestion:
Make leap either selectable (press #2) or instant access like NS1 by pressing R.
In this option:
Up0 = Bite - Primary, Secondary = Parasite?
Up1 = Leap - Primary, Secondary = "Alacrity"? *
*Temporary Speed boost - Maybe makes a loud screeching sound?
Consumes lots of energy - cannot bite/leap after this
Upgrade from a (Movement/Alien Comm) chamber adds a dodge-bullet ability - like Scouts in TF2?