Yes please, right after you are done with auto-aim and hats and achievements! And after HELL FREEZES OVER!
*ahem*
What I meant was, I think the uncertainty is fine but we will (hopefully) see some blood-decals and hear grunts of pain, like in NS. Remember that this is not a finished product =)
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815517:date=Dec 13 2010, 02:17 PM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Dec 13 2010, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815517"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes please, right after you are done with auto-aim and hats and achievements! And after HELL FREEZES OVER!
*ahem*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the link between what I said and your answer (auto-aim, hats and achievements) ?
Ahem. Background wise it makes sense. We have working nanites, it'd be easy to incorporate sensors into bullets and transmit the kind of surface hit. if it hits flesh or bone, the visor's software could color the crosshair red for a hit and play a light "beep".
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815549:date=Dec 13 2010, 05:00 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Dec 13 2010, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ahem. Background wise it makes sense. We have working nanites, it'd be easy to incorporate sensors into bullets and transmit the kind of surface hit. if it hits flesh or bone, the visor's software could color the crosshair red for a hit and play a light "beep".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it s to much
just add a beep when you hit an enemy what ever the part of his body. just watch some quake frag movie or tf2 you ll hear a beep when you hit.
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815588:date=Dec 13 2010, 07:31 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Dec 13 2010, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell no. Don't dumb down the game. The blood splatter is more than sufficient to know if you are hitting a target or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you think that adding a beep hit is dumbing the game i just don t understand why
Imagine when ns2 release, you can tweak the game by removing some graphics effects by cfg/console like blood splatter .
Because it means you know what you're doing!! If people know what they are doing and the game makes sense how on earth will I be able to feel superior about having wasted time figuring it out?! I NEED TO FEEL SUPERIOR!!!!
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
How about using the sound of the Whip attack for the "hit" sound, and when ever you kill something you hear the death scream of a chicken. Yeah! =P
Ok, I don't think we should have something like this. Please keep in mind, since the server aren't optimized right now it can be very hard to tell when we hit something. Once the servers are running much better, I don't think this will be as an important of an issue. Not too mention, the particle effect are really just now starting to get added in. UW will be improving all of these things, so let's hold off before we go spamming feature requests like these.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imagine when ns2 release, you can tweak the game by removing some graphics effects by cfg/console like blood splatter .
how will you know you hit someone ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By that logic, you need someone to stand behind you and whack you with a piece of plywood every time you hit something. Cause, you know, you might have been blinking, or turned it off or not paid attention...
How do you get from someone not knowing if they hit because of "tweaks" to everyone having to play Quake? And by the way, if it is Quake you want to play, there is good news: They already <a href="http://www.quakelive.com/#!home" target="_blank">made</a> it! Several times, in fact...
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I know if I hit someone when I put the crosshair on the target, aim, and fire. Blood splatter is nice to have some feedback, but not required. An audio beep or crosshair feedback is too much. It's unfair to get that kind of feedback for things like grenades, where you can then tell if an alien or structure is taking damage behind a wall without actually seeing it yourself. That's how it dumbs down the game. Aliens lose some ability to hide if you give feedback like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1815599:date=Dec 13 2010, 06:48 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Dec 13 2010, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know if I hit someone when I put the crosshair on the target, aim, and fire. Blood splatter is nice to have some feedback, but not required. An audio beep or crosshair feedback is too much. It's unfair to get that kind of feedback for things like grenades, where you can then tell if an alien or structure is taking damage behind a wall without actually seeing it yourself. That's how it dumbs down the game. Aliens lose some ability to hide if you give feedback like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could disable it for area effect attacks, although if you are seriously being impacted by the enemy knowing when they hit with their enormous explosive weapons, I think something else is wrong there.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited December 2010
There's also the matter of stealth to be considered. Alien tactics can often rely on Marines not noticing them, or using actual in-game camoflage to get glanced past before moving in. Giving a nice indicator on whether you're hitting something removes that. As a debug function, I think it's a fine addition, but I wouldn't like to see too much in the way of feedback to let Marines know if they're wasting ammunition or not.
I'm leaving this in General Discussion for now, but it might need shifting to Ideas & Suggestions, depending on how the conversation goes.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
You could tie it in with the weapon ammo display. Put like a little hit icon next to the ammo count of the gun to have it say that you successfully hit the target.
<!--quoteo(post=1815608:date=Dec 13 2010, 07:22 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Dec 13 2010, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's also the matter of stealth to be considered. Alien tactics can often rely on Marines not noticing them, or using actual in-game camoflage to get glanced past before moving in. Giving a nice indicator on whether you're hitting something removes that. As a debug function, I think it's a fine addition, but I wouldn't like to see too much in the way of feedback to let Marines know if they're wasting ammunition or not.
I'm leaving this in General Discussion for now, but it might need shifting to Ideas & Suggestions, depending on how the conversation goes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the marines' primary method of detecting aliens is covering every square inch with bullets I think something else is wrong...
If you are shooting at something generally it's because you know there's an enemy there. Knowing if you hit them is not exactly giving away much, but it is useful.
This is a great idea. NS1 never had accurate audio feedback for hit registration (this is due to prediction errors on the client, as only blood as visual feedback confirmed a hit by the server), so this would be amazing for competitive play. Of course make it toggle-able so everyone's happy.
I laugh at people that think this would take away from NS2. Try playing a multi-player FPS competitively sometime and you'll see why.
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815598:date=Dec 13 2010, 07:47 PM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Dec 13 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815598"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do you get from someone not knowing if they hit because of "tweaks" to everyone having to play Quake? And by the way, if it is Quake you want to play, there is good news: They already <a href="http://www.quakelive.com/#!home" target="_blank">made</a> it! Several times, in fact...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't understand what you're trying to say.
<!--quoteo(post=1815641:date=Dec 13 2010, 09:47 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Dec 13 2010, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
As long as it doesn't work with area effect weapons, I don't really care. If you enable it for grenades, the marines can just spam a corner. If they don't get hit feedback, it's probably clear to move on. If they do get hit feedback, they'll keep spamming the corner to either kill or scare the lifeform away, or, if it's a structure, spam it until it's dead. They can do all that without even seeing what it was or ever putting themselves in danger of the whip/hydra or alien there. That's what would be total BS and I do not want to see in the game.
If your aim sucks and you need even better feedback than blood to tell you if you hit something or not, fine, but making it for everything would just lead to weapon spamage and poor gameplay. I've seen the same thing happen in other FPSs with this crap enabled. Players just spam AOE weapons at corners to see if someone is there or not. NS1 did fine without it, please don't dumb down NS2 to this level.
I disagree with that idea. I want to step into a corridor, and shoot something and feel the heat of the battle, not hearing a alarm right next to my ear doing "beep,beep,beep". I still get the idea why people want to have it, but this would just make the atmosphere fade away. Thats for the atmosphere.
Same with the game mechanical thing, it would be unfair if grenades would make a beep if they are shot around a corner, or a marine just shoots in the dark of hoping to hear a beep of a hiding skulk he would otherwise not see. Would also be interesting to know what the hit sound for a flamethrower would be .... beeeeeep?
Making it toggleable will give some player an adventage, some not, so i would also not like to see it in the fairness point of view.
It's about the game concept. In Quake it did make sense, Quake is only about aiming and movement skills.
NS2 is about that, but also about atmosphere. And a beep destroys it. Maybe a silent "meaty" sound would be cool; but I don't think you hear the projectile hitting meat when firing a gun in reallife...yes NS2 is not about realism, but then we wouldn't need any physics at all...
<b>A player does not have an unfair advantage over you if you do not choose to enable a setting that is made available to everyone</b>. Also, if marines get hit sounds for AOE grenade spam, then I don't see why lerks can't have hit sounds for marines entering spores. Seems fair to me.
Atmosphere is important, I agree. That's why it should be disabled by default and made a cvar setting available to anyone who wants it.
Multi-player mechanics such as this suggestion are important to NS2 in the same way they are important in Quake. NS is fun for many of the reasons Quake 3/Live is fun. NS at the highest level requires ridiculous skill as far as tracking and twitch aim; auditory feedback would have been a big improvement as far as perceived hit registration in NS is concerned.
Blood is NOT enough in NS due to sound prediction errors that condition a player to believe a hit happened when it did not. Casual players have no idea about these sorts of things, so I understand why you feel this is unfair or a waste of time. Hopefully this sheds some light on why this is not a waste of time. Small additions like that impress competitive players are well worth the effort.
<!--quoteo(post=1815699:date=Dec 14 2010, 12:47 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 14 2010, 12:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not make it tied to the crosshair as so many other games do. No need for silly sounds...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I think the issue remains. You simply should not know if you have hit/wounded that Skulk running on the ceiling so that you don't know if he is still there or he retreated for healing. Its not only the atmosphere, it also influences gameplay.
Oh my. Just turn down volume based on cloaking percantage. Cloaking is about camouflage so this is just using that.
Background wise there are interferences with an alien's cloaking mechanism and TSA still hasn't figured out how that works. As a result, cloaking is able to dampen the feedback for the marine and hitscan electronics are set to work with what they receive. If they receive not enough information, they reduce hit volume.
Comments
*ahem*
What I meant was, I think the uncertainty is fine but we will (hopefully) see some blood-decals and hear grunts of pain, like in NS. Remember that this is not a finished product =)
Personally, I'd rather have some skulk-footsteps.
*EDIT* Welcome to the Forums, by the way =D
*ahem*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the link between what I said and your answer (auto-aim, hats and achievements) ?
I mean, did you ever played quake 3 ?
there is a hit sound in quake so thats why i don't see the link between a hit sound and auto-aim/hats/achievements
it s not a cheat you know. just a way to know if you hit or not
I think it s to much
just add a beep when you hit an enemy what ever the part of his body. just watch some quake frag movie or tf2 you ll hear a beep when you hit.
I think a crack sort of noise as though the impact effect was amplified a lot would fit a bit better with the game.
if you think that adding a beep hit is dumbing the game i just don t understand why
Imagine when ns2 release, you can tweak the game by removing some graphics effects by cfg/console like blood splatter .
how will you know you hit someone ?
Ok, I don't think we should have something like this. Please keep in mind, since the server aren't optimized right now it can be very hard to tell when we hit something. Once the servers are running much better, I don't think this will be as an important of an issue. Not too mention, the particle effect are really just now starting to get added in. UW will be improving all of these things, so let's hold off before we go spamming feature requests like these.
how will you know you hit someone ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By that logic, you need someone to stand behind you and whack you with a piece of plywood every time you hit something. Cause, you know, you might have been blinking, or turned it off or not paid attention...
How do you get from someone not knowing if they hit because of "tweaks" to everyone having to play Quake? And by the way, if it is Quake you want to play, there is good news: They already <a href="http://www.quakelive.com/#!home" target="_blank">made</a> it! Several times, in fact...
You could disable it for area effect attacks, although if you are seriously being impacted by the enemy knowing when they hit with their enormous explosive weapons, I think something else is wrong there.
I'm leaving this in General Discussion for now, but it might need shifting to Ideas & Suggestions, depending on how the conversation goes.
I'm leaving this in General Discussion for now, but it might need shifting to Ideas & Suggestions, depending on how the conversation goes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the marines' primary method of detecting aliens is covering every square inch with bullets I think something else is wrong...
If you are shooting at something generally it's because you know there's an enemy there. Knowing if you hit them is not exactly giving away much, but it is useful.
I laugh at people that think this would take away from NS2. Try playing a multi-player FPS competitively sometime and you'll see why.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
<!--quoteo(post=1815641:date=Dec 13 2010, 09:47 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Dec 13 2010, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you.
If your aim sucks and you need even better feedback than blood to tell you if you hit something or not, fine, but making it for everything would just lead to weapon spamage and poor gameplay. I've seen the same thing happen in other FPSs with this crap enabled. Players just spam AOE weapons at corners to see if someone is there or not. NS1 did fine without it, please don't dumb down NS2 to this level.
I want to step into a corridor, and shoot something and feel the heat of the battle, not hearing a alarm right next to my ear doing "beep,beep,beep". I still get the idea why people want to have it, but this would just make the atmosphere fade away.
Thats for the atmosphere.
Same with the game mechanical thing, it would be unfair if grenades would make a beep if they are shot around a corner, or a marine just shoots in the dark of hoping to hear a beep of a hiding skulk he would otherwise not see. Would also be interesting to know what the hit sound for a flamethrower would be .... beeeeeep?
Making it toggleable will give some player an adventage, some not, so i would also not like to see it in the fairness point of view.
It's about the game concept. In Quake it did make sense, Quake is only about aiming and movement skills.
NS2 is about that, but also about atmosphere. And a beep destroys it. Maybe a silent "meaty" sound would be cool; but I don't think you hear the projectile hitting meat when firing a gun in reallife...yes NS2 is not about realism, but then we wouldn't need any physics at all...
Atmosphere is important, I agree. That's why it should be disabled by default and made a cvar setting available to anyone who wants it.
Multi-player mechanics such as this suggestion are important to NS2 in the same way they are important in Quake. NS is fun for many of the reasons Quake 3/Live is fun. NS at the highest level requires ridiculous skill as far as tracking and twitch aim; auditory feedback would have been a big improvement as far as perceived hit registration in NS is concerned.
Blood is NOT enough in NS due to sound prediction errors that condition a player to believe a hit happened when it did not. Casual players have no idea about these sorts of things, so I understand why you feel this is unfair or a waste of time. Hopefully this sheds some light on why this is not a waste of time. Small additions like that impress competitive players are well worth the effort.
Well, I think the issue remains. You simply should not know if you have hit/wounded that Skulk running on the ceiling so that you don't know if he is still there or he retreated for healing. Its not only the atmosphere, it also influences gameplay.
Cloaking is about camouflage so this is just using that.
Background wise there are interferences with an alien's cloaking mechanism and TSA still hasn't figured out how that works.
As a result, cloaking is able to dampen the feedback for the marine and hitscan electronics are set to work with what they receive.
If they receive not enough information, they reduce hit volume.