<!--quoteo(post=1820319:date=Dec 30 2010, 01:25 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 30 2010, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I run forwards at about 8 MPH. I probably run backwards at about 2MPH.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, that is why you cannot sprint backwards but you can sprint forwards.
Get in your small-arms combat stance, now make a tactical move forward, now backwards, now to the right, now to the left.
if you are at all a normal person, you can maintain a fairly consistent combat stance moving briskly forward, a little slower backwards, and briskly to the right. to the left is where the real problem is as that is where your back is truly facing and walking backwards is slow versus the sides stepping you do walking directionally backwards.
That being said, having one side be a way slower strafe than the other would just be annoying. I think that a slight slow while moving backwards is realistic, just not down to 40%. probably more around 70%, give or take. obviously it would need practical in game testing over speculation.
<!--quoteo(post=1820329:date=Dec 30 2010, 08:05 PM:name=Trek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trek @ Dec 30 2010, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Get in your small-arms combat stance, now make a tactical move forward, now backwards, now to the right, now to the left.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sprint forward while looking to the right = strafe left Sprint forward while looking to the left = strafe right Sprint forward while looking over your shoulder = backwards speed
I can run forwards and aim backwards at probably 90% of my normal speed, and it's only slower because I can't see where I'm going. Other than that, nerfing movement speed doesn't make a lot of sense and it isn't realistic.
People saying "I never move backwards so i don't care that it's nerfed" make me terrified about the direction this game is going
It worked well in NS1 and it works well in NS2 currently if you take a little time and learn how to circle strafe and dodge attacks.
Go suit up in a bunch of heavy gear and see how easy it is to run backwards while holding a few weapons on your person. It's not easy, and I'd gladly take slower backpedaling over decreased accuracy.
It adds challenge to the game, and it's a feature most other FPS titles don't have. I say keep it!
Go for a run forwards then for one backwards. Tell me how much more difficult it is and how much longer it takes and then tell me that isn't realistic enough for you.
Is it really so difficult to understand that FPS controls are by necessity a simplification of human movement and not a literal 1-1 reproduction? Is it unclear what I meant by <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sprint forward while looking to the right = strafe left Sprint forward while looking to the left = strafe right Sprint forward while looking over your shoulder = backwards speed<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, when you turn your head/neck/upper body, your feet don't rotate. In FPS games they do, in order to make the control more straightforward. Pressing 'A' to strafe is NOT the same thing as sidestepping to the left IRL, pressiing ' W' is NOT the same thing as walking backwards.
I wasn't expecting my computer game to be a real life simulator.
However a lot of games replicate as much of real life as possible, some of it is even shock horror, a gameplay dynamic by replicating some features. Walking backwards being slower, is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards.
I don't see how hard it is to accept a decision a game team has put in to their game. If they want slower speed, like it worked in NS1, then they want it. If they don't, they don't.
My own personal opinion is <i>I actually like</i> the dynamic of slower backward movement speed as it means it's not all 'deathmatchy'.
<!--quoteo(post=1820425:date=Dec 31 2010, 04:24 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 31 2010, 04:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820425"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wasn't expecting my computer game to be a real life simulator. Walking backwards being slower, is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that's the thing, walking backwards slowly is NOT "simulating how a human would travel backwards." A human trying to escape an animal chasing him while simultaneously trying to shoot at the animal would not walk slowly backwards - he would run, while turning and shooting behind him.
Backwards movement being more or less full-speed is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards. It feels intuitive during gameplay because it is consistent with the dynamics of human movement while being constrained by the limited number of controls needed for playability.
Backwards movement being overly sluggish is a literal 1-1 interpretation of what would happen if somebody facing forwards began walking straight back. This isn't what the player is trying to do, therefore it causes a disconnect between the game and the player, and makes the game feel awkward.
This is where the line of gameplay, games and reality meets it's match. You can't twist your torso 180 in real life, you're right, you would snap yourself in half.
A development decision was taken. I'm not going to get in to the realism of running away and shooting accurately, how often close combat would have a real person jump back, walk back or run back or whatever; that's too long winded and will go in circles.
Players have said they want something different, they don't want the standard movement which players can master easily and just out right win a fire fight all the time, however they want it to be simple enough to understand. Bunnyhopping was one of the things that isn't to be included as far as I know, because it sets such standard which widens the skill gap in a negative way.
No one whined about backwards walk speed being slower on a mass scale in NS1, it's a bit different to other FPS movement wise and it's something in which, to quote tjosan again, "You're restricted by your own skill. Deal with it."
It requires you to think about the situation you are in so you can't jump or run wildly, it levels the playing field of having a ranged weapon as opposed to a melee opponent.
A lot of these forum threads about the game development are literal whines, they're not constructive, they're players wanting the game tailored to them. I think people have to face up to the fact that the development team make decisions you like, they make decisions you don't like, you just have to deal with that as you do any other game company.
I don't agree 100% with the decisions, however if I did, there'd be something extremely wrong with that. You're allowed to like something even if you disagree with part of it, voice your disconcert but don't impose it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see how hard it is to accept a decision a game team has put into their game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I havent read a single post in this thread that didnt accept the game mechanic. Its only about the numbers.
Group A is fine with the current 40% speed. Group B is not.
A: The only valid arguement i can agree on (without writing a few pages why xyz is fail/wrong/crap) - it was in ns1. B: My arguements - Modern FPS game movement(BF, COD, MOH, Crysis, etc.pp. they all got the same feeling ~80% backpedal), freedom, missing mechanics/physics/feeling from ns1...
Uwe tries to implement new stuff while still holding on old things from ns1(not wrong but...), you cant just change/add key stuff(sprint, leap, blink, fly etc) and put the old movement system on top of it - this doesnt work. Copy it as a whole or adjust/tweak it to something new/better/modern
Guys the train is gone - ns2 already is a new game and different in most things from ns1 - why do you still try to make it a ns1 copy.
<u><b>I dont need ns1 values and mechanics in ns2 - i need NS2 Values and mechanics in ns2.</b></u> (this doesnt exclude that stuff from ns1 is in ns2, but it should fit and work out)
Its not our decision to make - yes, but we can still discuss it, and we can still give feedback... (and hope uwe listens or not)
PS: ofc its some kind of whine and ofc we(i) want the game tailored to us(me) - but is that really wrong? Stupid exaple: Should we(i) be silent if Uwe would change the game to gamepad only? etc? Only because UWE thought this was a good idea? I got a vision how this game should look like, so do they and so do you. The Problem - they want you and me to play their vision - thats why we give feedback, and uwe has to make a decision. (Do we care or not?)
It just comes down to the feeling though. That's what people <b>really</b> want from a sequel. Does it <b>feel</b> like the first game? Never mind that the mechanics are different. Different people had different experiences in, and valued different aspects of, the first game and this game, so who's to say who knows best? I do think that right now, for most people, it doesn't 'feel' the same as the original - due to different reasons for different people, but I think that's more because the game is incomplete and unpolished.
Some people value their 40% backwards walking speed. Some people value their bunnyhop. Some people value their squishy, base-building gorge. Some people value their darkness. Some people value their Lerk bite.
Clearly, you can't please everyone. What experiences of NS1 did you value most, though? What needs to be in, to feel like the same game?
Value =/= Machanic or feature Backwards walking speed reduction is already in - is only a value we dont agree. (darkness is in too, but thats a bit complex because it also depends on pc settings, monitors etc if you make the game too dark some monitors lack the contrast and and and)
Bunnyhop is not in, or tweakable by a simple number in the lua files.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clearly, you can't please everyone. What experiences of NS1 did you value most, though? What needs to be in, to feel like the same game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this should get its own topic. Good stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1820434:date=Dec 31 2010, 05:16 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 31 2010, 05:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is where the line of gameplay, games and reality meets it's match.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, whatever that means, its a "line" which has been researched in theory and practice thousands of times in thousands of FPS games, and among those games there is a clear consensus not to nerf backwards movement outlandishly. There is a reason it isn't often used, and that's because it frustrates players for the aforementioned reasons.
Slow backwards movement has turned every encounter with the aliens into a bunny-hoping circle-strafe-jumping spray-and-pray-fest (unlike the more dignified reverse get-me-five-feet-back! action we had when the S key actually worked).
Also, regardless of the realism-tactical-simulator-real-life-movement justification (which i sort of agree with), whenever the topic comes up in-game the agreement is always that <u>the devs made a mistake</u>, and "Marines are slow enough already".
This is no way to justify anything -> "It worked in ns1" is just an opinion.
I'm being pretty outspoken about this issue so I should add this disclaimer - UW is in the ongoing process of tuning movement speeds and I have total trust that they are capable of working out the correct feel without input from the forum.
<!--quoteo(post=1820470:date=Dec 31 2010, 07:58 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Dec 31 2010, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is no way to justify anything -> "It worked in ns1" is just an opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1819468:date=Dec 26 2010, 06:38 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 26 2010, 06:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i didn't say it was a proper fighting technique taught in basic training, i said its perfectly possible to run forward and look/aim/shoot behind you with average human biomechanics. Somethng which nobody has contested, and rightfully so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no just no you obviously have never fired a rifle. There is no way to fire behind you accurately, or run backwards and fire forwards accurately. Infact there is no way to fire accuractely while moving at all, so maybe marines should not be able to aim while moving/firing if you want to be truly accurate/realistic.
People arguing that you should be able to run backwards and shoot need to just shut up, thats stupid, You can't do it in real life, and you can do it in this video game get over it and develop different tactics instead of just complaining, move forward.
<!--quoteo(post=1820483:date=Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there is no way to fire accuractely while moving at all, so maybe marines should not be able to aim while moving<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given the statement "there is no way to fire accurately while moving" we can conclude and accept that aim in FPS games is <u>unrealistically accurate</u> for the sake of fun gameplay. In FPS games, aim doesn't become less accurate depending on direction of travel. Therefore accuracy can be discounted, because we are talking about a video game. The only question that remains is, is it physically possible to aim a rifle behind you only by turning your upper body. The answer is yes, unless you are obese or severely crippled it is possible to aim behind your back while moving forward.
<!--quoteo(post=1820483:date=Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People arguing that you should be able to run backwards and shoot need to just shut up, thats stupid<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm quoting this so that you can be censored by this board's moderators, insulting people is not called for.
ITs also a statement of fact that some ppl here compleatly ignore the posts and opinions of other ppl contributing to this discussion - and simply make small ignorant posts. It was in ns1 is a fact - yes, ns2 is not ns1, and saying this is the ultimative answer to everything is ignorant especially if you read what ppl write.
Leave this discussion if you dont want to contribute to it.
PS: "you'd be really offended speaking to anyone in England 90% of the time" - maybe in your milieu...
<!--quoteo(post=1820485:date=Dec 31 2010, 10:35 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 31 2010, 10:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Given the statement "there is no way to fire accurately while moving" we can conclude and accept that aim in FPS games is <u>unrealistically accurate</u> for the sake of fun gameplay. In FPS games, aim doesn't become less accurate depending on direction of travel. Therefore accuracy can be discounted, because we are talking about a video game. The only question that remains is, is it physically possible to aim a rifle behind you only by turning your upper body. The answer is yes, unless you are obese or severely crippled it is possible to aim behind your back while moving forward.
I'm quoting this so that you can be censored by this board's moderators, insulting people is not called for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
your being ignorant, and hilarious. You want it to be realisitc, and you want it to be like crysis and cod. While the bulk of the people who will play ns2 will play it because it is NOT like COD or Crysis. This is a mariens vs alien game. While everyone running backwards and shooting might be fine for cod, it is not fine for NS2 as the aliens are mostly limited to MELEE ATTACKS. As a skulk I cannot run backwards at full speed and attack, just deal with it. If you cant handle me calling you stupid, than I doubt you have EVER played any FPS games online or on any consoles, because you will be called much worse things than that. Grow up.
<!--quoteo(post=1820654:date=Jan 1 2011, 12:39 PM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Jan 1 2011, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820654"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a mariens vs alien game. While everyone running backwards and shooting might be fine for cod, it is not fine for NS2 as the <b>aliens are mostly limited to MELEE ATTACKS</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the only reasonable argument for reduced marine backward speed. Everything else was, and is, fluff.
Edit: I wonder how hard it'll be to make an instant-turn-180-degrees script.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the only reasonable argument for reduced marine backward speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it? All this slow does is making ppl not wanna use the back key anymore. It doesnt help aliens - ppl jump around even more silly now... circle strafejumping or 360° jumps etc.
The heavy slow is the worst thing they could do. There are better ways to improve the melee vs range problem.
PS: I wonder how many pages i need until i get some uwe comments in here...
You know, if moving backwards slowy was in on first release, it would not have had hardly if any attention what so ever, because you have had a taste of the benefit of incorrectly legging it backwards, its now a problem for people in NS2 that does not seem to have a problem of whining about in NS1 that also walks backwards at the same slow speed.
Maybe its only because "Strobo-Skulk", that this is such a big deal for me... atm movment for marines is more important than shooting(without flamethrower), because alien (esp. skulk) movement is everything but smooth. (if you are the one trying to shoot it)
Still while i can live with the slow and bypass it - i dont think its good. (i wont repeat why, again.)
<!--quoteo(post=1820799:date=Jan 2 2011, 08:55 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 2 2011, 08:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it? All this slow does is making ppl not wanna use the back key anymore. It doesnt help aliens - ppl jump around even more silly now... circle strafejumping or 360° jumps etc.
The heavy slow is the worst thing they could do. There are better ways to improve the melee vs range problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
When I press S I feel like both of my legs broke and I'm actually just bumshuffling along the ground. This results in inevitable death - I mean literally 99% of the time. This then has the backlash of eating into plasma rapidly and 70% of the game waiting for respawn.
It's actually put me of playing the game altogether.
Comments
Indeed, that is why you cannot sprint backwards but you can sprint forwards.
Get in your small-arms combat stance, now make a tactical move forward, now backwards, now to the right, now to the left.
if you are at all a normal person, you can maintain a fairly consistent combat stance moving briskly forward, a little slower backwards, and briskly to the right. to the left is where the real problem is as that is where your back is truly facing and walking backwards is slow versus the sides stepping you do walking directionally backwards.
That being said, having one side be a way slower strafe than the other would just be annoying. I think that a slight slow while moving backwards is realistic, just not down to 40%. probably more around 70%, give or take. obviously it would need practical in game testing over speculation.
backwards speed is 88
wats 88/220? Seems some of you didnt play ns1 as much as you say..
The biggest thing currently is strafing in ns2 is very different then ns1, plus you have no double jump.
:o<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Com research jetpants... my S key is broken.
Marines had double jump? Are you sure you weren't playing UT?
Sprint forward while looking to the right = strafe left
Sprint forward while looking to the left = strafe right
Sprint forward while looking over your shoulder = backwards speed
I can run forwards and aim backwards at probably 90% of my normal speed, and it's only slower because I can't see where I'm going. Other than that, nerfing movement speed doesn't make a lot of sense and it isn't realistic.
People saying "I never move backwards so i don't care that it's nerfed" make me terrified about the direction this game is going
Go suit up in a bunch of heavy gear and see how easy it is to run backwards while holding a few weapons on your person. It's not easy, and I'd gladly take slower backpedaling over decreased accuracy.
It adds challenge to the game, and it's a feature most other FPS titles don't have. I say keep it!
Go for a run forwards then for one backwards. Tell me how much more difficult it is and how much longer it takes and then tell me that isn't realistic enough for you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sprint forward while looking to the right = strafe left
Sprint forward while looking to the left = strafe right
Sprint forward while looking over your shoulder = backwards speed<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, when you turn your head/neck/upper body, your feet don't rotate. In FPS games they do, in order to make the control more straightforward. Pressing 'A' to strafe is NOT the same thing as sidestepping to the left IRL, pressiing ' W' is NOT the same thing as walking backwards.
backwards speed is 88<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Argument ends.
However a lot of games replicate as much of real life as possible, some of it is even shock horror, a gameplay dynamic by replicating some features. Walking backwards being slower, is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards.
I don't see how hard it is to accept a decision a game team has put in to their game. If they want slower speed, like it worked in NS1, then they want it. If they don't, they don't.
My own personal opinion is <i>I actually like</i> the dynamic of slower backward movement speed as it means it's not all 'deathmatchy'.
Walking backwards being slower, is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that's the thing, walking backwards slowly is NOT "simulating how a human would travel backwards." A human trying to escape an animal chasing him while simultaneously trying to shoot at the animal would not walk slowly backwards - he would run, while turning and shooting behind him.
Backwards movement being more or less full-speed is a gameplay dynamic influenced by simulating how a human would travel backwards. It feels intuitive during gameplay because it is consistent with the dynamics of human movement while being constrained by the limited number of controls needed for playability.
Backwards movement being overly sluggish is a literal 1-1 interpretation of what would happen if somebody facing forwards began walking straight back. This isn't what the player is trying to do, therefore it causes a disconnect between the game and the player, and makes the game feel awkward.
A development decision was taken. I'm not going to get in to the realism of running away and shooting accurately, how often close combat would have a real person jump back, walk back or run back or whatever; that's too long winded and will go in circles.
Players have said they want something different, they don't want the standard movement which players can master easily and just out right win a fire fight all the time, however they want it to be simple enough to understand. Bunnyhopping was one of the things that isn't to be included as far as I know, because it sets such standard which widens the skill gap in a negative way.
No one whined about backwards walk speed being slower on a mass scale in NS1, it's a bit different to other FPS movement wise and it's something in which, to quote tjosan again, "You're restricted by your own skill. Deal with it."
It requires you to think about the situation you are in so you can't jump or run wildly, it levels the playing field of having a ranged weapon as opposed to a melee opponent.
A lot of these forum threads about the game development are literal whines, they're not constructive, they're players wanting the game tailored to them. I think people have to face up to the fact that the development team make decisions you like, they make decisions you don't like, you just have to deal with that as you do any other game company.
I don't agree 100% with the decisions, however if I did, there'd be something extremely wrong with that. You're allowed to like something even if you disagree with part of it, voice your disconcert but don't impose it.
I havent read a single post in this thread that didnt accept the game mechanic. Its only about the numbers.
Group A is fine with the current 40% speed.
Group B is not.
A: The only valid arguement i can agree on (without writing a few pages why xyz is fail/wrong/crap) - it was in ns1.
B: My arguements - Modern FPS game movement(BF, COD, MOH, Crysis, etc.pp. they all got the same feeling ~80% backpedal), freedom, missing mechanics/physics/feeling from ns1...
Uwe tries to implement new stuff while still holding on old things from ns1(not wrong but...), you cant just change/add key stuff(sprint, leap, blink, fly etc) and put the old movement system on top of it - this doesnt work. Copy it as a whole or adjust/tweak it to something new/better/modern
Guys the train is gone - ns2 already is a new game and different in most things from ns1 - why do you still try to make it a ns1 copy.
<u><b>I dont need ns1 values and mechanics in ns2 - i need NS2 Values and mechanics in ns2.</b></u> (this doesnt exclude that stuff from ns1 is in ns2, but it should fit and work out)
Its not our decision to make - yes, but we can still discuss it, and we can still give feedback... (and hope uwe listens or not)
PS: ofc its some kind of whine and ofc we(i) want the game tailored to us(me) - but is that really wrong? Stupid exaple: Should we(i) be silent if Uwe would change the game to gamepad only? etc? Only because UWE thought this was a good idea? I got a vision how this game should look like, so do they and so do you. The Problem - they want you and me to play their vision - thats why we give feedback, and uwe has to make a decision. (Do we care or not?)
Different people had different experiences in, and valued different aspects of, the first game and this game, so who's to say who knows best? I do think that right now, for most people, it doesn't 'feel' the same as the original - due to different reasons for different people, but I think that's more because the game is incomplete and unpolished.
Some people value their 40% backwards walking speed. Some people value their bunnyhop. Some people value their squishy, base-building gorge. Some people value their darkness. Some people value their Lerk bite.
Clearly, you can't please everyone. What experiences of NS1 did you value most, though? What needs to be in, to feel like the same game?
Backwards walking speed reduction is already in - is only a value we dont agree.
(darkness is in too, but thats a bit complex because it also depends on pc settings, monitors etc if you make the game too dark some monitors lack the contrast and and and)
Bunnyhop is not in, or tweakable by a simple number in the lua files.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clearly, you can't please everyone. What experiences of NS1 did you value most, though? What needs to be in, to feel like the same game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this should get its own topic. Good stuff.
Indeed, whatever that means, its a "line" which has been researched in theory and practice thousands of times in thousands of FPS games, and among those games there is a clear consensus not to nerf backwards movement outlandishly. There is a reason it isn't often used, and that's because it frustrates players for the aforementioned reasons.
Also, regardless of the realism-tactical-simulator-real-life-movement justification (which i sort of agree with), whenever the topic comes up in-game the agreement is always that <u>the devs made a mistake</u>, and "Marines are slow enough already".
This is no way to justify anything -> "It worked in ns1" is just an opinion.
That's not an opinion. It's a statement of fact.
no just no you obviously have never fired a rifle. There is no way to fire behind you accurately, or run backwards and fire forwards accurately. Infact there is no way to fire accuractely while moving at all, so maybe marines should not be able to aim while moving/firing if you want to be truly accurate/realistic.
People arguing that you should be able to run backwards and shoot need to just shut up, thats stupid, You can't do it in real life, and you can do it in this video game get over it and develop different tactics instead of just complaining, move forward.
Given the statement "there is no way to fire accurately while moving" we can conclude and accept that aim in FPS games is <u>unrealistically accurate</u> for the sake of fun gameplay. In FPS games, aim doesn't become less accurate depending on direction of travel. Therefore accuracy can be discounted, because we are talking about a video game. The only question that remains is, is it physically possible to aim a rifle behind you only by turning your upper body. The answer is yes, unless you are obese or severely crippled it is possible to aim behind your back while moving forward.
<!--quoteo(post=1820483:date=Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Dec 31 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People arguing that you should be able to run backwards and shoot need to just shut up, thats stupid<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm quoting this so that you can be censored by this board's moderators, insulting people is not called for.
ITs also a statement of fact that some ppl here compleatly ignore the posts and opinions of other ppl contributing to this discussion - and simply make small ignorant posts. It was in ns1 is a fact - yes, ns2 is not ns1, and saying this is the ultimative answer to everything is ignorant especially if you read what ppl write.
Leave this discussion if you dont want to contribute to it.
PS: "you'd be really offended speaking to anyone in England 90% of the time" - maybe in your milieu...
I'm quoting this so that you can be censored by this board's moderators, insulting people is not called for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
your being ignorant, and hilarious. You want it to be realisitc, and you want it to be like crysis and cod. While the bulk of the people who will play ns2 will play it because it is NOT like COD or Crysis. This is a mariens vs alien game. While everyone running backwards and shooting might be fine for cod, it is not fine for NS2 as the aliens are mostly limited to MELEE ATTACKS. As a skulk I cannot run backwards at full speed and attack, just deal with it. If you cant handle me calling you stupid, than I doubt you have EVER played any FPS games online or on any consoles, because you will be called much worse things than that. Grow up.
This is the only reasonable argument for reduced marine backward speed. Everything else was, and is, fluff.
Edit: I wonder how hard it'll be to make an instant-turn-180-degrees script.
Is it? All this slow does is making ppl not wanna use the back key anymore. It doesnt help aliens - ppl jump around even more silly now... circle strafejumping or 360° jumps etc.
The heavy slow is the worst thing they could do. There are better ways to improve the melee vs range problem.
PS: I wonder how many pages i need until i get some uwe comments in here...
Maybe its only because "Strobo-Skulk", that this is such a big deal for me... atm movment for marines is more important than shooting(without flamethrower), because alien (esp. skulk) movement is everything but smooth. (if you are the one trying to shoot it)
Still while i can live with the slow and bypass it - i dont think its good. (i wont repeat why, again.)
The heavy slow is the worst thing they could do. There are better ways to improve the melee vs range problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
It's actually put me of playing the game altogether.