NS Classic

PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
edited December 2010 in Modding
<div class="IPBDescription">would you like it?</div>

I am wondering why nobody create a topic or say something about it, or did i don't see the thread?
Do you think NS classic would be nice?
If yes, why?
Was it realy balanced?
With like old Lerk bite attack, old fade blinking and stuff?
I like NS2 but if somebody create after ns2 is final, a classic mode, it would be fun to have the old feeling.
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Comments

  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    While the creation of a classic-mode has been mentioned before, the reality is that we don't know how exactly NS2 will pan out. Perhaps by the time it reaches it's official launch it may well be a lot closer to NS1-classic than it is now. Coupled with the fact that NS2's development is very turbulent at the moment and not very friendly to modders (in terms of feature-completeness), it will take some time before any serious discussion regarding a classic-mod will come to be.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    Agreed. When the real beta releases you will see all kinds of game modes. I would love ns classic but in reality i would lean more towards implementing the new models to ns1 just cause i'm lazy like that.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    I wouldn't want to play classic if NS2 works well. It would feel so empty.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1819576:date=Dec 26 2010, 09:53 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 26 2010, 09:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819576"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't want to play classic if NS2 works well. It would feel so empty.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sure you wouldn't watch a old movie if a new movie is better?
    Sorry but totaly stupid!
    Ns 1 classic is a nice game and ns2 will maybe fun too but it is totaly diffrent game.
    It can't be compared to ns1 classic.
    For example it uses power nodes, alien commander, onos can't eat marines, minigun(maybe like hmg), flamethrower and stuff...
    its not ns1 classic anymore, and i am 99% sure, people would play a ns1 classic mode, because the community love ns1.
    maybe 1-2 new features + Dynamic Infestation.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1821839:date=Jan 5 2011, 07:32 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jan 5 2011, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe 1-2 new features + Dynamic Infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then it wouldn't be NS "Classic"....

    This topic has come up on numerous occasions, and I'm sure eventually someone will spend the time to make it happen. The platform/Engine/etc is (as player said) entirely too fluid right now and probably will be for a long time to come. Hell, they just finished putting in a new FX system. Long story short, serious speculation about making mods (or NS1 remake) are fruitless right now. Give UWE at least two more months, then you might be able to start looking at it seriously.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1821859:date=Jan 6 2011, 02:35 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 6 2011, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Long story short, serious speculation about making mods (or NS1 remake) are fruitless right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I concur given that there is virtually no information on custom content pipelines available for modders to work with
  • DelphicDelphic Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58262Members
    ^^ What zex said

    I was trying to make a simple DM game re-using some of the NS2 lua but the lack of documentation just ate me, I can't keep on top of the lua system created by and still being changed / refactored / improved by a professional team in my free time.

    I'm going to be waiting for either UWE or someone with more free time / intelligence / patience to from the community to produce some documentation before I seriously attempt any spark mods.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    edited January 2011
    Whatever, lets wait for the final version but i still hate the new features like the flamethrower, i mean you can't stop the fire...you just have to hope to survive...

    <!--quoteo(post=1821859:date=Jan 6 2011, 02:35 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 6 2011, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then it wouldn't be NS "Classic"....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    is your car not the same car, if you only add heated seats?
    No you would say "oh its not my car anymore, it wouldn't be my car..."
    Do you understand?
    The new features doesn't mean its not ns classic anymore, only if you remove "old" features or some new weapons like flamethrower.
    Anyway, patience for final product but a ns1 classic would be nice, with all the great old maps and stuff.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited January 2011
    No, he's right. "True" NS "Classic" has the same... everything. Gameplay, assets, interface, everything, just on a new engine.
    Even a "liberal" definition allows for different assets, but the exact same gameplay and interface type must be retained.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1821975:date=Jan 6 2011, 07:19 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jan 6 2011, 07:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821975"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is your car not the same car, if you only add heated seats?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, it's not. If it had heated seats it would be the "Premium Edition" then. I'm not trying to split hairs here, that's just how things work (not trying to troll either).


    <!--quoteo(post=1821877:date=Jan 5 2011, 10:07 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 5 2011, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I concur given that there is virtually no information on custom content pipelines available for modders to work with<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Some of what you're wanting to know is automatically handled by the Builder program. The trouble comes in setting it up and knowing how to define materials and the various layers in a photoshop file, etc. The basics of the art pipeline will remain the same from here on (cautious assumption there, but likely). The real problem comes in the lack of information surrounding animations, specifics of model format, and most importantly...lack of a Spark Lua API. If you are wanting to to just do some textures or static models, you can do that right now fairly easily. I'm pretty sure the wiki is up to date for that stuff. I can't speak for anything else tough.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1822173:date=Jan 7 2011, 03:11 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 7 2011, 03:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The real problem comes in the lack of information surrounding animations, specifics of model format, and most importantly...lack of a Spark Lua API.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, there is some information on basic stuff. No, there is not a documented pipeline for art, which is a huge obstacle to finding 3d artists willing to provide content for mods. Considering the effort UW has made to make Spark moddable, this seems like a huge mistake but I am optimistic that they are merely waiting until the right time to release the documentation.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    @zex: I wouldn't call it a mistake. UW is more concerned about finishing NS2 right now. Hell, they've already talked about licensing the Spark "Platform", so they are thinking about this sort of thing. It just takes a whole lot of time to put together good documentation.

    I just wish they were using something like <a href="http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/index-jsp-135444.html" target="_blank">Javadoc</a> or <a href="http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/" target="_blank">Doxygen</a>, but I guess we can't have everything. *shrugs*

    I'm sure it will come in time.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    I should clarify that I mean not having documentation on release would be a mistake, doesn't matter to me if they wait until then.
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1822192:date=Jan 7 2011, 03:42 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 7 2011, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@zex: I wouldn't call it a mistake. UW is more concerned about finishing NS2 right now. Hell, they've already talked about licensing the Spark "Platform", so they are thinking about this sort of thing. It just takes a whole lot of time to put together good documentation.

    I just wish they were using something like <a href="http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/index-jsp-135444.html" target="_blank">Javadoc</a> or <a href="http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/" target="_blank">Doxygen</a>, but I guess we can't have everything. *shrugs*

    I'm sure it will come in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    While you may be able to parse the Lua-files of NS2 and generate a reasonable documentation, you have to realize that parts of the Lua-functionality are bridged over from C++-code using Luabind, which you can't just run through a parses willy-nilly. In the mean time, you can deduce A LOT from the NS2 Lua-files.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    I completely agree and understand your point player. What I was getting it is it's a lot faster to glance at a document than having to (basically) stack-trace your way through the current Lua code. Long story short, I just want a "reference manual/document" or even better inline support in Decoda, but I'm willing to wait.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    it would be amazing seeing ns1 on spark engine. Everything would be the same expect the engine it would run on. Its like half life source, everything is the same just the graphics are changed. It would an amazing experience, but also huge project.

    I still play ns1 even though I own ns2.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I got the name: NS1:Spark
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    Why not just Natural Selection: Spark? The 1 isn't necessary, and detracts from it.
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    ns1 started with spikes instead of bite and blink instead of uber speed fade too!
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    I guess. But I guess people want 3.2 in Spark form?
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    There realy is a no win situation here for many view points.
    UWE could not do the things they wanted to do with NS1 because of Engine limits, NS2 probably has some of those original ideas the engine would not allow plus some new ones thought up along the way. The current development target is to add those, test them and if they are phoo then they get removed, you cant complain about something that is not there or incomplete.
    NS2 is also supposed to be a different game but not totally different form the original. There is hardly any point in making an exact clone of a mod as a full retail product. A lot has been learned about from NS1, New gadgets to attract new people to the game is a must as well as old problems from NS1 need to be addressed using new game play mechanics to solve them so that NS2 does not suffer the exact same problems.

    Also, NS1 used to have lerk spikes but they where flawed because they had no fall off so they where ubber super range rapid fire attackers that where too effective at taking bases out. Relaced with Lerk bite along with a huge amount of complaints raised for its removal, later accepted somewhat but was a class that ended up being played less.
    Problem with NS1 lerk bite was the need to get close and personal, the lerk is not cheap and its too powerfull to make cheap and too easy to kill and is hardly something that would have a lot of health like a fade or onous so it got wasted a lot. Back to ns2 solution was to give lerk its old spikes back wiht the fall off we can now have applied in this engine. This comes with complaints because there is no lerk bite.... No win situation there will always be complaners so we will satisfy the majority or find a balance between both, Like for example now the lerk has a beack instead of a jaw there is always the possibility of the view model came bringing that into view allowing you to switch to pecking marines to death in the face... I like the sound of that :)
  • ChaguiChagui Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1828433:date=Jan 29 2011, 12:04 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jan 29 2011, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There realy is a no win situation here for many view points.
    UWE could not do the things they wanted to do with NS1 because of Engine limits, NS2 probably has some of those original ideas the engine would not allow plus some new ones thought up along the way. The current development target is to add those, test them and if they are phoo then they get removed, you cant complain about something that is not there or incomplete.
    NS2 is also supposed to be a different game but not totally different form the original. There is hardly any point in making an exact clone of a mod as a full retail product. A lot has been learned about from NS1, New gadgets to attract new people to the game is a must as well as old problems from NS1 need to be addressed using new game play mechanics to solve them so that NS2 does not suffer the exact same problems.

    Also, NS1 used to have lerk spikes but they where flawed because they had no fall off so they where ubber super range rapid fire attackers that where too effective at taking bases out. Relaced with Lerk bite along with a huge amount of complaints raised for its removal, later accepted somewhat but was a class that ended up being played less.
    Problem with NS1 lerk bite was the need to get close and personal, the lerk is not cheap and its too powerfull to make cheap and too easy to kill and is hardly something that would have a lot of health like a fade or onous so it got wasted a lot. Back to ns2 solution was to give lerk its old spikes back wiht the fall off we can now have applied in this engine. This comes with complaints because there is no lerk bite.... No win situation there will always be complaners so we will satisfy the majority or find a balance between both, Like for example now the lerk has a beack instead of a jaw there is always the possibility of the view model came bringing that into view allowing you to switch to pecking marines to death in the face... I like the sound of that :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    then the win situation would be to have spike attack as primary and bite as secundary :P
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1828433:date=Jan 29 2011, 04:04 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jan 29 2011, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There realy is a no win situation here for many view points.
    UWE could not do the things they wanted to do with NS1 because of Engine limits, NS2 probably has some of those original ideas the engine would not allow plus some new ones thought up along the way. The current development target is to add those, test them and if they are phoo then they get removed, you cant complain about something that is not there or incomplete.
    NS2 is also supposed to be a different game but not totally different form the original. There is hardly any point in making an exact clone of a mod as a full retail product. A lot has been learned about from NS1, New gadgets to attract new people to the game is a must as well as old problems from NS1 need to be addressed using new game play mechanics to solve them so that NS2 does not suffer the exact same problems.

    Also, NS1 used to have lerk spikes but they where flawed because they had no fall off so they where ubber super range rapid fire attackers that where too effective at taking bases out. Relaced with Lerk bite along with a huge amount of complaints raised for its removal, later accepted somewhat but was a class that ended up being played less.
    Problem with NS1 lerk bite was the need to get close and personal, the lerk is not cheap and its too powerfull to make cheap and too easy to kill and is hardly something that would have a lot of health like a fade or onous so it got wasted a lot. Back to ns2 solution was to give lerk its old spikes back wiht the fall off we can now have applied in this engine. This comes with complaints because there is no lerk bite.... No win situation there will always be complaners so we will satisfy the majority or find a balance between both, Like for example now the lerk has a beack instead of a jaw there is always the possibility of the view model came bringing that into view allowing you to switch to pecking marines to death in the face... I like the sound of that :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Tell me one thing that could not done with hl1 engine istead of ns2 spark engine?
    Except physics and Dynamic Infestation...

    NS1 was more a "create a community" thing.
    Which is not a bad thing, its a good thing, ns1 was free and was just the best mp mod i ever played.
    NS2 is some kind of fun MP Game, but its not finished.
    Maybe im wrong but in the latest developer video charlie say something about the flamethrower just take down the energy and not the health of the aliens, maybe i just translate or hear it wrong.
    But if the flamethrower will not be changed soon, its a totaly fail.
  • RebelRebel Join Date: 2003-04-10 Member: 15371Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Playtester
    I agree that it's time we saw a sequel to NS not just a HD remake, at some point someone is probably going to do it, DN3D is having a HD remake and not on the DNF engine.

    I have faith in UWE to deliver a well balanced fun game that isn't just da ja vu, I have previously voiced my concern over some of the design decisions I have seen but we can't tell until the product is in a much more complete state, we are still several alien structures and lifeforms short and the marines are still to get the ARC and the Exo in, then they need to debug and balance the game, once that's complete THEN it's time to give if ia roasting if it sucks, given past form if there is any valid and constructive criticism to be levelled UWE will listen, take it onboard and act on it.
  • RTVRTV Join Date: 2008-06-09 Member: 64417Members
    Is it allowed to use all the sounds, materials and maps from natural selection 1?
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    I dunno man... If you just want the gameplay then you don't need different assets, you can just use their equivalents in NS2, though you might need to put in anything that's missing from NS1 to NS2. If you want NS1 art transferred intact, I don't see the point, why not just play NS1? I could see value in doing a HD remake (new models, new textures) of NS1 though.
  • RTVRTV Join Date: 2008-06-09 Member: 64417Members
    Gee, think!
    1. NS1 isn't played much now
    2. Why installing old ns1 if you can use the new features of the spark engine?
    3. HD-Remake models, not the ns2 ones because they are to diffrent.
    4. Sounds are good enough from ns1.
    and on :P
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2011
    Are you really telling <b>me</b> to think? I have thought, and I've come to the conclusion that transferring NS1 intact is pointless. NS1 already exists, you can already play that instead. What new features of the spark engine would you need or want for it? The very fact is you want something <b>classic</b>, this means <b>not new</b>. Don't contradict yourself.
    1. Transferring the gameplay does have a point as a mod; because NS2's gameplay is significantly different; but you don't need to necessarily change the assets, there's not really much point to it... People would play this.
    2. A slightly more "ambitious" project would be to transfer the current NS1 art over; but I personally don't see much point in this as it'll just be the <b>exact</b> same game as NS1, which already exists and is dated. People would play this less - why play with such low-poly models and low-res textures in our shiny new generation?
    3. An even more ambitious project would be to re-model all the old NS1 models, with new textures and such; giving NS the HD treatment. I do see a point in this, and would support this, as it will be NS1 updated for a new generation. People would play this most.
  • Nex CarnifexNex Carnifex Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76366Members
    edited March 2011
    Yes, that would be awesome, and maybe even the old maps could be added for if you wanted a break from the new style. There both very different.
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