What kind of college would I need to go to to maybe be able to work for Unknown Worlds when I get ol

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  • Nex CarnifexNex Carnifex Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76366Members
    Thank you to everyone for the good advice, I feel a lot more enlightened about the future now, thanks.
  • FehaFeha Join Date: 2006-11-16 Member: 58633Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1822210:date=Jan 7 2011, 04:24 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 7 2011, 04:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT:
    Ofcourse, you can mod in other ways than coding (its just what first comes to mind to me, as that is what I do :D), such as if you like mapping you should try spark map editor, hammer (map editor for source), and the unreal one (I actually never used it :S).

    You could also try modelling, altough I dont know how you do that :P.

    There is even more stuff games need than maps, models, such as sounds, or effects. I got no idea about what you need to know about those to make yourself a living on it though.


    EDIT2:
    Also, incase you wonder what those terms we use mean, Spark is the game engine uwe is making and ns2 is being developed on, source is the engine used in css, hl2 and many other games, while unreal is the engine used for unreal tournament games, and such, I dont own any of those unreal games though :P.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not sure if you saw my edits, so I decided to repost them before continuing.


    It would be good if you told us what you love doing that might be good for game developing, I got an impression that you are more into stuff like mapping and modelling than coding, and in that case I would not be able to offer any help except for linking you to usefull stuff about hammer or communitys that might end up helpfull.

    If you however do prefer coding I know alot that might end up helping you, such as in gmod there is an addon named wiremod, which I learnt alot using, both by using its "gates", and the its "expression 2", which is basiclly something you code in gmod (if you are interested, more info here <a href="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/?title=Wire_Expression2)" target="_blank">http://wiki.garrysmod.com/?title=Wire_Expression2)</a>. I also learnt alot when coding minor extension to it (you code that in lua).

    I can also suggest something called "gamemaker" when it comes to learning coding, as it is very easy to use, and can ease the learning curve by giving you the ability to both use normal code, and to do some sort of graphical coding. It also includes a decent engine thats easy to use.

    It would also be good to read a bit about the difference between object oriented programming languages (OOP), and non OOP languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming).

    There is other stuff I could tell you about learning to code, but I think I need to sleep, its 4 now :P

    Even if you are not interested in this stuff, I hope someone who is accidently reads this and finds it usefull ;).


    Also, this thread was really popular :). it got many posts realy fast, faster than most flame war threads tbh XD.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1822250:date=Jan 7 2011, 12:51 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 7 2011, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, this thread was really popular :). it got many posts realy fast, faster than most flame war threads tbh XD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Probably because all the replies were concise as people aren't trying to refute every one of each other's points and coming up with off-handed remarks in the process. Just saying.

    I wish I'd dedicated and applied myself to something when I was 15. 6 years later I'm halfway through an engineering degree, doing well enough, but I don't really enjoy it at all. My plan is to graduate, work for five years and save like a madman, then move into another career.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    To re-iterate: complete, fully fleshed out stuff is what you need. Doesn't matter which part of the industry you want to be in, complete products that go beyond the normal run-of-the-mill classwork is what you need.

    You want to do 3D modeling? Do some super hipoly stuff.
    2D texture artist? Do what every other artist does (i.e. draw ALOT) and then slap it onto some models.
    Mapping?
    Coding?
    etc.

    The other thing is presentation and getting known. As dux already noted, minimal clicks to access your stuff. Setting up a website/blog is a good way to let your stuff be accessible. The other half of the equation is being persistent. Participate on development boards. There are often calls for art/coders for small projects (i.e. mods), so hit those up and tack titles onto your resume.


    It isn't necessary to go to a hardcore game development school. However, it sometimes helps. That being said, I have quite a few friends who just did a solid Computer Science degree and are working for Riot Games, SuperPunch, and several others. Really the school and degree don't make the person, having stuff to show that you've done gets you the jobs. And that's true for every industry.
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    Best advice I ever got was from the art lead at Starbreeze:

    Hone your craft until your fingers bleed. Be good enough that they'd be stupid not to hire you - thats when you will get hired. If you really love making games, doing anything less is selling yourself short.

    I can tell you now, looking back from 2 years afterwards - he was right.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Forget about finding a job right now dude, you're a junior in high school. Take classes that are relevant to your interests(programming, modeling, whatever) and see how much you like them. A job is a job, what matters is that you enjoy the work you're going to be doing. Working for a company whose products you personally enjoy is trivial compared to that.
  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1822217:date=Jan 6 2011, 10:33 PM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 6 2011, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really, where do you work now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    as a freelance web developer, but i was a small company graphic designer for 4 years.

    while it's easier to find work in web or print design, it's only now that i'm unemployed that i get time to map and model and even draw. remember that. if you want to make games, make games, don't ever settle. ever.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    Kind of pointless for me to chime in this late in the discussion, as everyone has already posted a lot of great advice. But anyway, here's a bunch of random musings off the top of my head...

    To start with, it sounds like you have one of the most essential elements necessary for getting into the game industry -- passion. If you are truly passionate about doing something, you will work like crazy to make it happen, and won't take no for an answer.

    The advantage of getting a job in the game industry, more then many other industries, is that you are judged primarily on your work, not on a perfect resume or a degree from an expensive top tier college. It doesn't matter what school you go to, if your work isn't of a high quality and good enough to stand out from all of the other applicants, you won't be considered as a potential employee.

    Whichever path you choose to go down - game design, programming, artist - make sure you surround yourself with examples of other peoples work in those areas, and study and learn from them. It will inspire you and push you to improve your own work. Never be satisfied with the level you are at -- no matter how good you get, there is always someone better then you out there, and there is always more you can learn.

    Familiarize yourself with the tools used in game development and build a solid portfolio of work. Keep the portfolio simple, focused, but also varied enough to show you can handle a variety of tasks. Don't get caught up in flashy presentation, most companies can see past that, and want the work to speak for itself.

    Don't get too obsessed with getting a job creating games, to the point where that becomes your life. Companies don't just want to hire an employee who has a great portfolio of work, they also want someone who is well rounded, educated, interesting, and who the rest of the team can get along with and will enjoy working with.

    Getting a job in the game industry, at UW or any company, is not easy. Don't be scared of rejection, its just part of the process. Getting turned down for jobs repeatedly can get discouraging, but you can't give up. Even after working in the game industry for 6 years I was turned down by quite a few companies when I first moved to California 5 years ago.

    And finally...relax. You still have some years before you need to worry about getting a job, don't make any final decisions about your future. Learn about game development, figure out which areas you may most want to explore, and see where it leads. Enjoy life, because sooner then you think you'll be working with bitter, jaded old men, like me and Dux.

    Good luck!

    --Cory
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1822295:date=Jan 7 2011, 05:17 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 7 2011, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whichever path you choose to go down - [...] - make sure you surround yourself with examples of other peoples work in those areas, and study and learn from them. It will inspire you and push you to improve your own work. Never be satisfied with the level you are at -- no matter how good you get, there is always someone better then you out there, and there is always more you can learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Philosophy for life.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    @Cory: Thank you for that thoughtful and insightful post! Good stuff.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    edited January 2011
    Just to add what people say I'd focus on something you enjoy. The only way you're going to find this out is by trying it. The best way to try it out is to use games you currently own and editors you currently own etc. So if you're looking at seeing what you may like, it's worth seeing how the programs which you will be using work and how to do what you need to do within them.

    If you're a gifted artist and haven't already done so, I suggest making full use of photoshop and seeing if you can make say, a replacement skin for a model, new textures to fit in to a HL2DM map or so forth.

    Half-Life or Half-Life 2 is what 9/10 people will own and I assume you do too. So for the purpose of making it easy and simple to be able to experience one small aspect of each design area I'll use that as an example.

    If you're a looking to code, Google Valve's developer wiki, load the mod source and start playing around with basic things such as the UI, the weapon systems etc.

    If you're looking to model, again I assume you own HL2 and you can look at XSi which comes free as part of the mod tools (with a simple download) and Valve also has specific tutorials for that version of XSi linked from the mod tools. Try and follow those tutorials and see how you go. All accessible from 'Source SDK' in Steam.

    If you're looking to map, bear in mind you can use Spark which is altogether different from the Half-Life 2 editor Hammer, if you have the alpha/beta key and access to Spark I recommend trying that out as it's simpler to learn on the fly as a first time mapper and you've got the NS2Mapping forums to help.

    However the HL2/Valve route, load up Source SDK and Hammer. Then use Google for the Valve developer wiki for a lot of entity specific information and places such as Interlopers.net and Snarkpit.net for tutorials, and see how you like mapping.

    There are of course other things you can do such as soundwork, which I have absolutely no idea about and how you would go with it, but I'm sure if it's what you want to do you can find it on google.

    Once you find your forté, what you want to do you then want to as others have said put it in to practice. Everything you can do on your own pretty simply, making custom models to release for people to use in their mods/maps/games. Making custom levels for people to use in a specific mod/game again the same you can make custom textures for mappers to use in games. However I recommend if you find you want to go down the coding route, to gain a lot more experience it may be useful to join a modification team before going down your own mod route. The mod route is always a good route for whatever you decided to do, however for the majority of things you can 'go solo' as it were.
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The key thing I have learnt is to be passionate, but not worry or become too critical - and can prevent you from working through fear of failure.

    It is hard sometimes when you are working towards something, and you do produce work that you can see is not at the level of those you look up to. Or those who have successful jobs in the industry.

    Everyone starts from nothing, and builds skills over time. If you do a piece of work each day and enjoy learning, then after 5 years I assure you that your skills will be AAA.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited January 2011
    Depends what you want to do. Artists will probably want to start with traditional art, drawing, painting and whatnot. Then you would need to be proficient in a modelling package, 3ds max, maya etc. Then depending on what you want to do art wise you would need to learn either texturing in photoshop to compliment your modelling ability, or you would need to learn how to animate, and for that study of 2d animation is often helpful as well. Programmers need mathematics for everything, physics for some things, and proficiency in at least one programming language (preferably C++). If you want to do design, I don't actually know what you should study. The design course at my university consists entirely of 'play games, draw pictures of a new level for us'. There isn't really any tuition on it which is kind of annoying.

    Personally I'm looking into level design with an emphasis on lighting, it's nice because it isn't purely a games thing but it is certainly important for games, because good lighting makes everything look better. It's also something that doesn't involve having to UV map or rig models, both of which I hate doing as they take all the joy out of the work. Lighting on the other hand is hard to get right but rewarding when you do, and it usually has good tools.

    Generally though you need as much proficiency as you can in as many game related things as possible. Even if you don't program having an understanding of programming will help you work with programmers in a team. Also peripheral studies are very helpful. I for example got my A levels in biology and chemistry, and I picked up a lot of random physics in the process. This is very helpful when it comes to animation because understanding how the body fits together helps you understand animation. And understanding material physics helps a lot with environment design because I can think about what a structure needs to be built of, how that material would react if you shot it, what particle effects it would create, how thermal changes in fire and explosions influence the shape of the explosion, how different materials decay over time and become dirty, how light moves around rooms to create proper lighting effects and whatnot. I also try to collect as much architectural stuff as I can, I've got a bookcase full of books on how different vehicles are designed with schematic diagrams and stuff, as well as big picture books on churches as I love gothic architecture.

    It also helps you to remain a functioning member of society because one thing I have picked up in doing a games course at university, is that you get burned out on games REALLY quick. It really helps to have something other than games to come back to.
  • Nex CarnifexNex Carnifex Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76366Members
    Thanks for all the new advice! It's all really helpful and I think this thread might just be the go to guide for anyone looking to get into the game industry now.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1822295:date=Jan 7 2011, 09:17 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 7 2011, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't get too obsessed with getting a job creating games, to the point where that becomes your life. Companies don't just want to hire an employee who has a great portfolio of work, they also want someone who is well rounded, educated, interesting, and who the rest of the team can get along with and will enjoy working with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Everyone has said pretty much everything I'd have said, but I would like to expand on this point of Cory's. If you go down a path where a degree in the field isn't strictly necessary, but you are still able to go to University/College, then pick a degree that will expand your horizons or make you a more well-rounded person. Think about studying something that is perhaps related to what you want to do but will give you scope to learn something different. Having knowledge across a broader spectrum makes you valuable no matter where you work, and it's great to be able to bring in expertise from outside the field.

    Oh, and I fixed that typo for you.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    This is a simple insight, but you might not have thought along those lines; if you're part of a tiny team of 5 developers as a full-time employee you should be doing ~20% of the work load. As your time is limited, if you become very good at something you inevitably stay bad at everything else because you don't have time to learn and practice; you won't be able to do ~20% of the work load because the narrowness of your expertice exludes you from doing so.

    Big developers love people like that, because they get to be REALLY good at what they're doing and there's more than enough work to keep them busy.

    Small developers prefer people who are merely good, but can do a wide set of related skills. If you're a graphics kind of guy you might need to be able to work the entire modelling pipeline concept art->modelling->skinning->texturing(colour map and normal map) and animation; if you're a level kind of guy you might need to be able to make props and textures. If all you do is animate character models REALLY well you don't belong in a small dev team; then you have to go work for EA or something.
  • ASnogarDASnogarD Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
    edited January 2011
    I dont know if its relevant here but ...

    I want to design games, I got quiet a lot of ideas but as I have read and heard often... ideas are cheap.
    The only way anyone will see my ideas is if I create the game, myself and make others see my visions.

    I am still teaching myself C++ and SDL, and picking up pixel art and playing with Blender , and managed to actually make a small simple game.
    I was pretty excited when I uploaded the zip file and told communities I was in about it... the lack of response was a real kick in the teeth, but I know why because I do the exact same thing.
    Why should I have expected others to look at my little game, when I dont bother looking at other guys first games either, not without some compelling reason.
    The point of my post here is simply dont expect to fly when you are still crawling about and it takes time before you will make a game and others will notice, dont get depressed when your first game isnt well recieved or considered facinating.

    My months of code and pixel drawing = less replies than I can count using my fingers.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1822446:date=Jan 7 2011, 09:22 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Jan 7 2011, 09:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a simple insight, but you might not have thought along those lines; if you're part of a tiny team of 5 developers as a full-time employee you should be doing ~20% of the work load. As your time is limited, if you become very good at something you inevitably stay bad at everything else because you don't have time to learn and practice; you won't be able to do ~20% of the work load because the narrowness of your expertice exludes you from doing so.

    Big developers love people like that, because they get to be REALLY good at what they're doing and there's more than enough work to keep them busy.

    Small developers prefer people who are merely good, but can do a wide set of related skills. If you're a graphics kind of guy you might need to be able to work the entire modelling pipeline concept art->modelling->skinning->texturing(colour map and normal map) and animation; if you're a level kind of guy you might need to be able to make props and textures. If all you do is animate character models REALLY well you don't belong in a small dev team; then you have to go work for EA or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Although animation is REALLY damn hard to do. So if you can animate well, you can probably get a job anywhere.

    <!--quoteo(post=1822445:date=Jan 7 2011, 09:22 PM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Jan 7 2011, 09:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone has said pretty much everything I'd have said, but I would like to expand on this point of Cory's. If you go down a path where a degree in the field isn't strictly necessary, but you are still able to go to University/College, then pick a degree that will expand your horizons or make you a more well-rounded person. Think about studying something that is perhaps related to what you want to do but will give you scope to learn something different. Having knowledge across a broader spectrum makes you valuable no matter where you work, and it's great to be able to bring in expertise from outside the field.

    Oh, and I fixed that typo for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I really need to learn to play piano.

    And take up german again.
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    Posting to confirm that dux is a bitter, bitter man. I think its just because he's from Wales though.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1822460:date=Jan 7 2011, 10:31 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Jan 7 2011, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Posting to confirm that dux is a bitter, bitter man. I think its just because he's from Wales though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I can confirm this.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1822452:date=Jan 7 2011, 05:47 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Jan 7 2011, 05:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My months of code and pixel drawing = less replies than I can count using my fingers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think I can be somewhat helpful here. For silly little 2d games that aren't too demanding, use flash.

    Why? Because there are great websites that aggregate flash games, make them easy to share, easy to rate, searchable; like newgrounds. If people have to download potentially malicious code, extract and install it, you're going to need some form of "marketing" to get people interested. With flash games the barrier you must jump over to get people interested is much lower; all you have to do is convince me that it's worth clicking a link and waiting 5 seconds for it to load in order to check your game out.

    "marketing" doesn't mean ads. It could be starting a topic in the appropriate section of forums you frequent and pasting some snippets of gameplay as an embedded youtube video, it could be lucking out and getting your game mentioned/reviewed somewhere that has a lot of eyeballs, it could be that is so cool and unique that it goes viral, like minecraft. The barrier to get people first to notice your game and then to be sufficiently interested in your game to install it is much, much higher.
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    It's gotta be the sign of a company with a bright future when bright people dream of working for it :)
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