NS II vs NS I concepts
Griffon
Join Date: 2011-01-14 Member: 77441Members
Join Date: 2011-01-14 Member: 77441Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Alian commander, Gorge, Plasma ...</div>Dear developers and players!
I really liked NS 1, and I played it a lot a few years ago. Natural Selection 1 had a few new game concepts for me. I never saw this creativity and innovations before in a game. I'm very happy that you guys now become, from some "fans" who just had some fun in creating a HL mod, to a company who develops games!
But in NS 2 you didn't implemented or changed some innovations you had in NS 1:
* I really like NS 1, because both party have different building/upgrades and money systems. A single alien had his own money economy, and Marines had one big money pool, and one commander could use the money. I really liked this concept and hope you are looking forward to implement it as well to NS 2.
* I just loved the right click menu. I think it was very handy to communicate to your commander or build structures as a gorge. Never saw this menu in a game before too :)
* I liked the 3 differed alien towers, who gives you 3 single upgrades. You could choose which three upgrades (out of nine) you like most. The effects where awesome! And every time you could choose a different set-up for your life form, so you had many combinations how to play an alien.
All these points have one two big disadvantages (I guess):
* To complex for new players.
* Combinations doesn't make sense if all players choose the "best" combination all the time.
I liked the old NS 1, and I can understand why you make things easier. I would like to see more old NS 1 innovations in NS 2. But you have some cool new concepts for NS 2 for us:
* Flame-throwers
* Plasma (personal currency), marines buy stuff for their self (not the com drops it).
Hope you read it! Keep doing a great job :) And I'm looking forward to more features to be implemented (Are webs comming again? Please...!)
Kind regards.
I really liked NS 1, and I played it a lot a few years ago. Natural Selection 1 had a few new game concepts for me. I never saw this creativity and innovations before in a game. I'm very happy that you guys now become, from some "fans" who just had some fun in creating a HL mod, to a company who develops games!
But in NS 2 you didn't implemented or changed some innovations you had in NS 1:
* I really like NS 1, because both party have different building/upgrades and money systems. A single alien had his own money economy, and Marines had one big money pool, and one commander could use the money. I really liked this concept and hope you are looking forward to implement it as well to NS 2.
* I just loved the right click menu. I think it was very handy to communicate to your commander or build structures as a gorge. Never saw this menu in a game before too :)
* I liked the 3 differed alien towers, who gives you 3 single upgrades. You could choose which three upgrades (out of nine) you like most. The effects where awesome! And every time you could choose a different set-up for your life form, so you had many combinations how to play an alien.
All these points have one two big disadvantages (I guess):
* To complex for new players.
* Combinations doesn't make sense if all players choose the "best" combination all the time.
I liked the old NS 1, and I can understand why you make things easier. I would like to see more old NS 1 innovations in NS 2. But you have some cool new concepts for NS 2 for us:
* Flame-throwers
* Plasma (personal currency), marines buy stuff for their self (not the com drops it).
Hope you read it! Keep doing a great job :) And I'm looking forward to more features to be implemented (Are webs comming again? Please...!)
Kind regards.
Comments
The resource model was changed to accommodate some of the new features of NS2 (like marines buying their own weapons) and to aid balancing the game for different team sizes. The commander does still purchase things from one big pool though.
<!--quoteo(post=1824397:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:37 PM:name=Griffon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Griffon @ Jan 14 2011, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I liked the 3 differed alien towers, who gives you 3 single upgrades. You could choose which three upgrades (out of nine) you like most. The effects where awesome! And every time you could choose a different set-up for your life form, so you had many combinations how to play an alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The alien structures work similarly in NS2, but we haven't included the Shade (similar to the sensory chamber) or the Shift (similar to the movement chamber) in the beta yet. Likewise all of the upgrades aren't in the game yet and the UI for picking them isn't very obvious at the moment.
That would be impressive but I don't think that's possible.
Even it would be possible I think it's better to invest the resources otherwise..... like some harvesters or "chambers" (however they're called now)
Form there probably upgrading hive mass gives you access to one of the two remaining chambers to choose from, Then hive colony lets you place your last remaining choice?
That would be same as NS1 but tied to 3 achievable levels unlocked by the number of hives you have instead of 3 actual hives as currently done.
My next guess of their next code task objective once level tie is coded would be that loosing your most upgraded hive will loose you a level thus killing your ability to build more of that chamber built with that unlock level.
So an alien commander then has to make a choice and decide if the team can hold off without additional chamber placement around the map so the res can be used to secure the upgrades or is the team struggling and could do with the resources being spent on extra frontline chamber assistance right now?
their should be mode in the settings to change menus to classical or change it.
edit
I've also never liked macs, they can repair and build. these tasks are for marines, teammates. not some bot that does your job for you. I also don't think it should be allowed to repair anything, drop welder and send in the marine. If you need to build something send it mac, but if you want something fixed, send in marine with welder. Feels like marines need to do less and less.
their should be mode in the settings to change menus to classical or change it.
edit
I've also never liked macs, they can repair and build. these tasks are for marines, teammates. not some bot that does your job for you. I also don't think it should be allowed to repair anything, drop welder and send in the marine. If you need to build something send it mac, but if you want something fixed, send in marine with welder. Feels like marines need to do less and less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I loved NS for the variety of different roles each player could choose. By picking up a welder, I could contribute to the team by repairing structures, sealing doors and vents, as well as repairing other marines' armour. Different weapons and equipment alter the pace of the game for the player.
However, having a welder is also a tradeoff. Welders are not free, and trading a pistol for a welder lowers the marine's combat capability. But it's surprising how a simple welder made NS a lot more fun, by allowing the wielder to become an engineer, a medic, and a more valuable teammate. I would love to see the return of the welder. While MACs increase the Marines' map presence dramatically, having a mechanic bot fixing kinks in my armour simply does not feel the same.
50 start res -> 2 furthest hives, 60sec for + 10 res -> last hive and 10 sec build time, marines have no means to take out hive unless aliens act like retards.
Marines have no choice but to take closest tech spot if they manage and sit for flamethrowers, "amazing game play".
So? They can just leave the extra hives free until one goes down. Plus we have 4 chambers, not 3, now. Or are going to have anyway.
However, having a welder is also a tradeoff. Welders are not free, and trading a pistol for a welder lowers the marine's combat capability. But it's surprising how a simple welder made NS a lot more fun, by allowing the wielder to become an engineer, a medic, and a more valuable teammate. I would love to see the return of the welder. While MACs increase the Marines' map presence dramatically, having a mechanic bot fixing kinks in my armour simply does not feel the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pretty much this. every marine had task, one welds, one builds, and few cover. Now with macs, marines are free to do whatever, they hardly do anything aside from going from point A to B to fire their guns. Macs taking over the tasks of the players, its not fun at all and its easy mode compared to what marines used to do in ns1.
I'm sure macs sounded great on paper, but little bots doing little tasks, but they shouldn't be doing what marines should do themselves.
I sometimes feel this game won't pick up of how it used to be if we change what made ns1 amazing, and playing ns2 it feels sometimes developers lost touch of it.
I'm sure macs sounded great on paper, but little bots doing little tasks, but they shouldn't be doing what marines should do themselves.
I sometimes feel this game won't pick up of how it used to be if we change what made ns1 amazing, and playing ns2 it feels sometimes developers lost touch of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you never played a good match with ppl that understand the game. Devs didnt lose any touch, you just dont want to be open for it. Macs are a cool new gameplay element. IT doesnt dumb down the game - it enhances it.
couldn't disagree more, the people with guns should be shooting things and the commander should be doing everything else.
couldn't agree more. I've had matchs where I've seen so many macs, they build everything within seconds, but normally if you want something build quickly usually 2-3 macs should finish under min. Macs need to play less important role on marines side, they're currently doing everything marines suppose to.
welders need to make come back, macs should be limited on what they can do; they shouldn't be allowed to repair maybe only power nodes not buildings. they can only build if marine started building it first, so mac would help build it not start it. macs build increased if marines building but if mac alone reduced speed. (lower than now)
welders need to make come back, macs should be limited on what they can do; they shouldn't be allowed to repair maybe only power nodes not buildings. they can only build if marine started building it first, so mac would help build it not start it. macs build increased if marines building but if mac alone reduced speed. (lower than now)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, MACs are already nerfed up. If the Marines want to spend the res to have 3 MACs running around inata building, then you should punish them by killing the MACs.
MACs only cost energy from the CC, which replenishes quickly. During a game, a team is usually able to make (and keep) 10 or more MACs, which is a ridiculously large number. If they were to cost actual res, I'm sure MAC spam would not become a problem.
But on second thought, commander plays a bigger role in NS2; he/she don't depend on marines to construct for example resource towers or sentries, and take probably less of a casualty if a mac dies than a marine. I don't have enough experience to explain my thoughts and why, but i am sure the developers will take a hard look on this subject and make the right decision.
this is usually the case. marines doing very little due to macs, building and repairing everything. Normally marines would build, repair while some cover them but in this case macs doing everything for the marines while they just stand there.
I suspect it will be a little differently balanced.
I think it's just normal for a futuristic army to have some bots on the field to do the minor tasks and get rid of the welder so the marines can focus on important tasks.
Does mean: I like the MAC the way it is. We don't need any welders and I like the fact that the commander can order some bots around.. .. maybe send them with marines somewhere in, show them that he is with them..
(I think NS2HD gave that hint in one of his videos)
And the marines have to guard the MAC, of course.
But I agree that Macs have to be limited.
Maybe like this:
* A commandstation can support 2 macs at a time, a command facillity 3 and so on.
(for instance: If the marines have a command station and a command facility they can have 5 MACs)
* only one MAC can build or repair a building at a time so that this does not happen:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and then a macstack flies up and poof instant repair!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like this idea, and limit of macs commander should have, so macs do not become spam-able.
welders must make a return back into the game for simple reasons it was in the game in the first place.
each marine would have different role in the game, and marines would not depend so much on macs to do everything for them.
the whole point of being commander is controlling your marines, giving them different tasks to do.
having macs doing it for you, removes that whole point- don't let marines depend on bot for something they must do themselves.
limit the number of macs, limit what they can build or repair, removing marines depending on them.
NS is teamwork, not macwork!!