How does squad spawning work?

Plasma

Hey,

I was wondering how the 'squad spawning' upgrade worked?

Because squads are formed ad-hoc automatically when players are together; does that mean if someone dies in the group they will respawn in that group again (instead of at an IP)?

Does this work yet? I've not seen it in action.

Harimau

You have to research the transponder upgrade for the infantry portal to enable squad spawning.
Other than that, I don't know.
Do people have to "USE" the IP after they spawn? Do people just automatically spawn with their squads?
I don't think it'd work properly anyway, because squads form and re-form so quickly and erratically (definitely in need of work). So I'd wonder at whether there's enough squad persistence to allow for squad spawning.

Plasma

Yeah exactly; there's no real squad persistence.

Check out <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112031" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112031</a> where I wrote some ideas about how to make the squads better.

SgtBarlow

The automatic squad grouping needs replacing with the manual assignment for consistancy, keeping players groups intact.
The transponder can't work untill that is addressed, but yeh you need to:

Commander:
Build Observatory > Research Transponders > Click on an IP and click on Add Transponder > Assign Players to groups

Player:
walk upto the screen on the back of the IP and press "USE"

twiliteblue

"Squad Spawning" should simply make IPs spawn marines faster, or spawn multiple marines at a time. It would be silly to have 3 marines from 3 separate squads die, and have to wait 3 IP cycles even with "Squad Spawning".

Zek

I think automatic squad spawning will be much more trouble to implement than it's worth. There's no good way to dynamically and accurately determine where players should go, prevent them from popping up in people's line of fire, etc. I think phase gates just make more sense with the whole FPS/RTS gameplay. Maybe just use infantry portals, and say that only the ones near a comm chair can spawn marines while the rest are for teleporting.

Quovatis

I kind of liked the way they did it in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. The Strog can make a "spawn host" out of a dead enemy, where they will respawn at (one time only). NS2 could do something similar. Maybe have marines deploy transponders in the field (one for each marine). The marines have to go up and activate it and they will spawn there (one time) upon death. Aliens would be able to destroy it.

Of course I think the way UWE intended it to work is that you just pop right back in the squad you were in. I've never seen it actually work, although I can't say I've ever really seen it upgraded either.

Plasma

Phase gates making a return would be cool

twiliteblue

I like how expansions and Team Portals work in Savage 2 (another FPS/RTS game).

While dead, players could select their spawn location (from either the main base or an expansion).

Spawn Portals (http://www.savage2guide.com/index.php?title=Spawn_portal#Spawn_Portal)
Because Savage 2 maps can be huge, Spawn Portals are vital for sneak attacks. While they do not allow instant teleport from one location to another, they allow squad (I believe it's 4 players max per squad) members to use the Portal to respawn. The portal itself is very fragile, and can be destroyed in a few hits.

I think both of these concepts can be modified and adopted by NS2.

Koruyo

Dunno, squad spawning sounds too imba...

The way i think this is going to work, is that you can always teleport to your squad mates in the field (always teleport to the squad guy farthest away from your base? or closest to an enemy hive? pick the guy you wanna teleport to? or to the squad member closest to the position you died?)

Whatever, so every marine in this squad is a possible "phasegate"?!...
That means aliens got around 10-15s to kill the whole group of marines (It takes ~10s to respawn at an ip) OR ppl will come back. (The rate depends on ips)

Also a possible exploit i see, is to shuffle ppl around in the squads so you can teleport you whole team to the location if needed, not only one squad.... (distress beacon your other squads, shuffle and let them click the ip, if you cant beacon only a squad - you can only switch in ppl that are close or at your teleport ip ofc.) Managing this would be more effective than spamming medpacks.

Ah i forgot, squads dont have to be alone... they can alsow run together... so aliens would need to kill the whole marine team (or the ips/powernode of the room) to get rid of the respawning marines at their hive...



No matter what... it comes down to a similar mechanic like the old phasegate to make this balanced.... may it be called portable squad teleporter/ portable squad ip it will be some kind of structure aliens can focus on and destroy - i guess.

SgtBarlow

I would imagine having a screen with the big minimap popup and allow you to select a squad mate to spawn behind. Dont know what the plan is.

InfraRed

Probably like in Battlefield Bad Company 2

Tig

ooo, glad u made this thread. i had an idea about the squad spawning. why not make them into phasegates? so you pay your 10 carbon (or more) per ip and then you can place an exit ip somewhere on the map. that way, you can only pg from a techpoint and only one exit pg per ip.

Align

<!--quoteo(post=1824755:date=Jan 16 2011, 08:43 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 16 2011, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no good way to dynamically and accurately determine where players should go, prevent them from popping up in people's line of fire, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could potentially create a 'spawning in portal' (think Protoss warping in structures) at the exact location of a squad member that after a short delay spits out the guy.

Quovatis

So does it actually do anything right now? Anybody know?
Or is it just there to waste res on?

twiliteblue

<!--quoteo(post=1824818:date=Jan 17 2011, 03:46 AM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Jan 17 2011, 03:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ooo, glad u made this thread. i had an idea about the squad spawning. why not make them into phasegates? so you pay your 10 carbon (or more) per ip and then you can place an exit ip somewhere on the map. that way, you can only pg from a techpoint and only one exit pg per ip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sounds good to me, as long as the IP "phase gate" portal is easy to destroy (~400 HP).

Squidget

<!--quoteo(post=1824952:date=Jan 17 2011, 02:04 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jan 17 2011, 02:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824952"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So does it actually do anything right now? Anybody know?
Or is it just there to waste res on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything right now. As Comm, if you select an IP there's no button to assign troops to squads. And as a marine, trying to "use" the IP doesn't do anything (it just beeps).

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1824953:date=Jan 17 2011, 02:09 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 17 2011, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds good to me, as long as the IP "phase gate" portal is easy to destroy (~400 HP).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yeah, it should have the same hp as the ip. cheap and easy to destroy and if you want to put another one down after its destroyed from the same start ip, you have to research it again from that ip.

Align

But the ip isn't cheap at all!!

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1825098:date=Jan 17 2011, 05:00 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jan 17 2011, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the ip isn't cheap at all!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

neither should a pg. that's srsbznz

juice

Maps are small enough, marines can sprint around pretty fast. You don't really need squad spawning like you need pgs in NS1.

Quovatis

<!--quoteo(post=1825151:date=Jan 17 2011, 06:17 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Jan 17 2011, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maps are small enough, marines can sprint around pretty fast. You don't really need squad spawning like you need pgs in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Tram is the only official map, and stated to be the smallest one planned.

NurEinMensch

Ninja PGs were a great game element regardless of map size.

Kouji_San

Anyways, on-topic of map size. the current maps are not representative of the official size of the maps, as Quovatis already said, even Tram is a small official one, while Rockdown is a test map.


Also this "squad spawning" will be quite annoying for the Khaara." Yes, we finally got that marine squad killed, just one le.... oh crud, THEIR BACK!" Reminds me of Battlefield Badcompany with a medic squad constantly pooping out soldiers... (that is if this is how it's going to work...

I'd rather have ye olde Phazegate back. As it makes more sense to have to build a building to teleport your team around and or perhaps have IP's around the map and select your spawn location (in Battlefield map style), A phazegate would of course make it easier to understand for newbies though:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commander: "Use the phazegate to spawn at the front..."

Newbie: The wutgate?

Commander: "That big glowing platform that goes WHEEEEEEEWM"

Newbie: "Oh that thing" <!--coloro:#808080--><span style="color:#808080"><!--/coloro-->*newbie goes trough and dies to Skulks*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->