Gorge = mobile commander
Deadzone
Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I've been seeing suggestions about only Gorges able to become commander.
What if we nix the idea that you have to "use" the hive to become Alien commander? Limit commander to Gorges only, but in return, let them enter Commander mode from anywhere on the map. (still limit to 3 commanders?)
This gives a purpose to Gorging, returning it to the builder class. He can "tune into" the bacteria in the air, and give some kind of signal - pheromones or whatever - that change how the Infestation directs its growth. While the Gorge does this, he becomes vulnerable. Maybe he even enters a kind of trance. (this could even be a chance to bring back the armored plating stance for a Gorge - give him a little protection while in commander mode)
It also allows the Gorge a way to quickly assess the battle, or even assess how safe he is. Marines might be close by, but a quick top-down view might give a better look than simple hive sight. Gives him a heads up to start running his chubby ass off.
Other possible conclusions:
-Keep hydra placement first-person, if not all structures.
-Even if structures can be placed top down, make it within a certain range of the Gorge
-Activated Abilities (Umbra, etc) can be activated from Comm view anywhere on the map
(though it would be cool to see Umbra accessible via hitting "use" on a Crag)
-Upgrades and Research are all done via the Comm view, anywhere on the map
-If the Gorge will actively determine the growth pattern of DI, do it in first person via something like Healspray
What if we nix the idea that you have to "use" the hive to become Alien commander? Limit commander to Gorges only, but in return, let them enter Commander mode from anywhere on the map. (still limit to 3 commanders?)
This gives a purpose to Gorging, returning it to the builder class. He can "tune into" the bacteria in the air, and give some kind of signal - pheromones or whatever - that change how the Infestation directs its growth. While the Gorge does this, he becomes vulnerable. Maybe he even enters a kind of trance. (this could even be a chance to bring back the armored plating stance for a Gorge - give him a little protection while in commander mode)
It also allows the Gorge a way to quickly assess the battle, or even assess how safe he is. Marines might be close by, but a quick top-down view might give a better look than simple hive sight. Gives him a heads up to start running his chubby ass off.
Other possible conclusions:
-Keep hydra placement first-person, if not all structures.
-Even if structures can be placed top down, make it within a certain range of the Gorge
-Activated Abilities (Umbra, etc) can be activated from Comm view anywhere on the map
(though it would be cool to see Umbra accessible via hitting "use" on a Crag)
-Upgrades and Research are all done via the Comm view, anywhere on the map
-If the Gorge will actively determine the growth pattern of DI, do it in first person via something like Healspray
Comments
That surely is interesting for a mod, but for the maingame I prefer the way it is.
And.. imagine this scenario:
Imagine a public game..
imagine some troll connects...
imagine the troll to go gorge (or buys a notebook) and wastes all teamressources
imagine beeing not able to votekick him out of the commandmode....
That surely is interesting for a mod, but for the maingame I prefer the way it is.
And.. imagine this scenario:
Imagine a public game..
imagine some troll connects...
imagine the troll to go gorge (or buys a notebook) and wastes all teamressources
imagine beeing not able to votekick him out of the commandmode....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imagine a public game where a troll hops in marine's 2nd CC (or alien 2nd hive) and wastes all team's resources, or recycles base
Imagine a public game where a troll does nothing but spam Hydras to lag server, and can't be stopped from gorging
The problems you mentioned practically already exist. They have nothing to do with the concept of commanding from anywhere. Add support to kick a player from going gorge, and it would be fine. If you really think mobile commanding would be OP, make it limited to being on DI.
I think Gorges not relying on hives to command would do two things - it could create more asymmetry, and would allow Gorges to return to being de facto Commanders for the alien team. Anyone who misses playing Gorge probably misses it because its role has been reduced. This would expand the Gorge's role while keeping UWE's vision of an Alien Commander.
I feel this would fit more the the aliens style, give gorge back some of what people enjoyed about him in ns1, and break the symmetry when it comes to feel without being game breaking.
Honestly I wonder about the practicality and usefulness of this idea, though.
There are a number of different perspectives on it, all problems:
1. This effectively removes a class. And that class is either the gorge or the alien commander, because you've necessarily combined the two.
)a. Gorges are vulnerable when they become the alien commander; a gorge would probably prefer to stay in the hive room then; then what was the benefit of going gorge in the first place, rather than just having an alien commander from the onset? In both cases you've got a player commanding, stuck in the hive room; but in this case that player is vulnerable.
)b. There is no point to going gorge unless you wish to command, because he is otherwise an un-interesting class. A gorge wishes to place buildings, the alien commander does that; in this idea the alien commander is the gorge. Then... what was the point to having both and not just one?
2. A gorge who has to sit still to command, and still has vision of the entire map regardless of his position, is thus not a mobile commander. The NS1 gorge *was* a mobile commander, in every way except commanding and an overhead view.
3. You add a cost to going commander (gorge), the cost of evolution. Granted, that's from abundant personal resources. Hell, you could give marine commanders a log-in fee if you liked.
The problem with the gorge is not that he should necessarily be building, it's that he isn't an interesting class to play. This idea does not solve that issue.
Either the gorge:
1. becomes an interesting class without having to build everything,
2. OR he should be cut,
3. OR the alien commander should be cut.
I would MOST prefer to go with option 1.
If this is not possible, then option 3 or option 2.
With option 3, all it means is that a certain class of player has access to team resources, and of course can only use those resources to build things for the team. This works out well. However, there will overall be less unity on the team without an overhead commander, though.
If this unity is determined to be necessary, then option 2, the loss of a class, because what's the point of having an otherwise (other to building) uninteresting class and an alien commander that does all the same functions (if you allow the gorge to build), or the functions that the gorge should be doing (if you don't allow the gorge to build)?
Conjurer: the Beasts' builder class with support abilities. Can AOE entangle, prevent enemy movement for a few seconds, summon a mana well that replenish energy of nearby allies, summon a turret that lasts a few seconds, as well as deal extra damage against structures with melee.
(See <a href="http://www.savage2.com/en/gp_units.php?unit=conjurer)" target="_blank">http://www.savage2.com/en/gp_units.php?unit=conjurer)</a>
The Gorge definitely needs more combat oriented support abilities to be considered fun. Although the Gorge is not a vanguard combat unit, Heal Spray and Spit are quite lackluster in their current forms.
I'm not sure why the UWE developers decided to reduce the number player abilities in favour of structure-based abilities. I really hope there would be at least 4 player ability/weapon slots for each class in NS2 1.0.
1: Right now, the Gorge has effectively been nerfed to the point that he might as well have been removed. If they can make him a viable class beyond building hydras, then that would be a good thing. Whether they do that by making him commander or not, is a matter up to UWE.
a) You're right, you'd want to go Commander in the same kinds of places you'd want to gestate. A hive would work. However, if the gorge has other duties, such as "gardening" the DI progress, or placing some buildings in first person, or being a combat medic, the ability to hop in for a second from anywhere on the map and help the team would be useful.
b) Exactly, why have both? The gorge WAS the builder class, but UWE took that ability away and gave it to the commander. I'd like to see them keep the idea of an alien commander, but use it to add meaning to the gorge rather than take meaning away.
2: Similar to 1b, he WAS the de facto commander. I'd like to see that return, but by making him the "real" commander. To expand on having to "sit still" and be vulnerable, I'm imagining hopping into Alien Commander on the go being a quick, painless thing. Hop in, start tech researching, activate an Umbra, to back to first person. No more "will someone PLEASE run back to the hive and start weapons 2???"
3: If it's personal res to go gorge, it shouldn't be a huge problem, but I do see your point.
IF they can make gorge a full class on its own, that's cool. If not, I don't want to have this nonsense of taking his most important duty away and leaving a boring class behind. I also very much preferred placing buildings in first person view.
Though, I do agree that the gorge needs some additional features to make it useful. Hydras are pretty much the only reason I got gorge now.
Though, I do agree that the gorge needs some additional features to make it useful. Hydras are pretty much the only reason I got gorge now.
@Deadzone: Looks like we're on the same page, but I guess I still don't agree that this is a good idea.
I thought it'd be a more popular idea, but hey, no popularity + other solution available = other solution, I guess. Still fun to discuss ^^