Squad Issues
Runteh
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">The problems of dynamic squads, possible answer?</div>I like what has been done with the squad system. However, everyone knows that things are too dynamic in this game for 'permanent' squads - people don't stay in the squads they are assigned to - but there are issues.
# If you move slightly out of range the squad breaks down.
# You can't just 'select a group' and send them to a location in need of back up if broken down.
# Limited control over players.
Is there a compromise you can take further with this, by reversing things and coming from the permanent side of things in a different manner?
# So, say players who are 'working together' often, then maybe they become a permanent squad on the 'squad bar'.
And/Or
# The squad that has broken up remains as a squad in the squad bar for X minutes.
# If a member re-joins the squad after break up, the permanent link 'deadline (X minutes)' is renewed and extended.
# Re-forming boosts armour (moral) increase percentage, re-enforcing the idea of permanent squads and 'friendly moral'.
Obviously (as UWE suggested) moral armour boosts would not be implemented when squad mates are not near by, but this system would allow for the dynamics of FPS, encourage players to move together as squads (rejoining the ones they just left, meaning players are 'spread' more evenly over the map) 'AND' help the commander in selecting groups of players to give tasks to.
# If you move slightly out of range the squad breaks down.
# You can't just 'select a group' and send them to a location in need of back up if broken down.
# Limited control over players.
Is there a compromise you can take further with this, by reversing things and coming from the permanent side of things in a different manner?
# So, say players who are 'working together' often, then maybe they become a permanent squad on the 'squad bar'.
And/Or
# The squad that has broken up remains as a squad in the squad bar for X minutes.
# If a member re-joins the squad after break up, the permanent link 'deadline (X minutes)' is renewed and extended.
# Re-forming boosts armour (moral) increase percentage, re-enforcing the idea of permanent squads and 'friendly moral'.
Obviously (as UWE suggested) moral armour boosts would not be implemented when squad mates are not near by, but this system would allow for the dynamics of FPS, encourage players to move together as squads (rejoining the ones they just left, meaning players are 'spread' more evenly over the map) 'AND' help the commander in selecting groups of players to give tasks to.
Comments
We need an audio que, like a computer voice just saying, "You've been assigned to red squad."
Visually, the members in your squad should have some sort of marker, if it is a small graphic over their head or their armor color changes, but the foot soldier needs to be clued into what is happening.
I don't know about the armor bonus, as marines who are actually working in a squad already have a strength bonus from the extra fire power. Maybe something more akin to information sharing bonus, as others have recommended. Maybe if one marine see's and enemy an shoots it, that enemy is illuminated, like a, "HEY EVERYONE KILL THIS GUY" alert, for the rest of the squad since they're all connected. Or maybe like a team shared motion tracking bonus, so whatever one marine is tracking with his cross hairs all the other's see it too.
I've played commander a lot of times, and from my point of view on a public game:
1) I don't care who is in what squad
2) I just want X amount of squads as even as possible
3) I'd want players to stay in their same squads for as long as possible
Imagine a game has just started and I login as commander.
I want to tell the game 'Please make me 3 squads', let it do that automatically, I don't care who is in what, then I can say 'Squad 1 to double', 'Squad 2 stay at base and defend', 'Squad 3 visit center of the map to take first hive'.
See how effective this would be?
As a commander I don't want to micro-manage putting players into squads.
As a player, they just want to be part of some team work. If the game puts them in a squad and gives them an order from me as a commander as a squad, they are going to be happy to follow it.
As an option to also support competitive games, or players who want to play with friends, perhaps let players change which squad they are in if they like - but by default, just let the game decide.
I cannot stress enough how much I think this would be better than trying to micro-manage squads or manually create them by selecting a few players and pressing CTRL+1 etc.
Make it so automated and fluid that its a joy to coordinate an attack.
Squads in NS1 worked great. I don't mean to say "NS1 = only way to do things," but its squad system was exactly what it needed to be.
NS2 can still give bonuses for working together in proximity, but I'd rather have that be independent of squads.
Squads = giving orders
Proximity = proximity bonuses
They don't really have anything to do with each other, and I'm not sure why UWE is trying to force them together. The proximity thing to give orders is silly, and squad members who are doing something as normal as respawning will be kicked from the squad.
On top of that, two squads working together to take out a hive will just become a big blob. Since the marines themselves aren't really given much notice what squad they're in, how will they know who goes where when the comm says "umm, ok whoever was in Blue squad, go do X"
Give proximity bonuses if you need, and use the dynamic squad system as a way to easily grab grouped marines. However, Permanent squads are needed.
Squads in NS1 worked great. I don't mean to say "NS1 = only way to do things," but its squad system was exactly what it needed to be.
NS2 can still give bonuses for working together in proximity, but I'd rather have that be independent of squads.
Squads = giving orders
Proximity = proximity bonuses
They don't really have anything to do with each other, and I'm not sure why UWE is trying to force them together. The proximity thing to give orders is silly, and squad members who are doing something as normal as respawning will be kicked from the squad.
On top of that, two squads working together to take out a hive will just become a big blob. Since the marines themselves aren't really given much notice what squad they're in, how will they know who goes where when the comm says "umm, ok whoever was in Blue squad, go do X"
Give proximity bonuses if you need, and use the dynamic squad system as a way to easily grab grouped marines. However, Permanent squads are needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Squads are automatically assigned when two or more people are near to each other (I could be wrong?). But this is only defined by people 'wanting' to play in close proximity to one another.
If you tell people 'you will have an advantage if you stick together, instead of running all over the map' then you have achieved a few goals.
# People stick together (forming auto squads) and therefore...
# The commander has access to selecting a squad in the 'squad menu'...
# The game becomes more organised, without have to assign people to squads.
If there is no short term advantage for players, they will not work together. People want to get stuck into the action, they don't see that far down the road.
You want proof of this? Go on any public server at the moment where the commander is not talking to the players and just building. People run all over the place. It is mayhem.
This is an issues of communication between the team, especially player to player and commander to players - knowing the commanders plans, where he is building, what his intentions are (mic), etc.
But as stated, squads break down because of this 'auto-squading' and its limited range. Hence you need a system that encourages each squad to go to an area of the map, and keep going back to it when one of their squad dies.
See OP.
I second this.
Maybe include a button/command to join the nearest squad that relys on the proximity system, but have the two concepts clearly separated. While auto-squading is a cool idea, I'm not sure it works as well in practice.
I think some sort of moral boost would be great, even if it is just 10 extra health.
Maybe it could effect other areas, such as focusing hearing (by reducing ambient noises) or improving battle sense somehow.
Either way, I think a noticeable but not 'dramatic' change in stats for the player would be a good way to persuade people to stick together.
At the heart of the OP however, is making players who stick together often into more permanent squads that the commander has access too.