<!--quoteo(post=1830331:date=Feb 7 2011, 01:32 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 7 2011, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sentiment is amicable, however, how do you put a positive on being 14ish months past your release date with no near future planned release date to offer? People have paid good money for a game well overdue. I can definitely empathise with those that are bitterly disappointed and even angry when they pre-ordered before then, I can more than understand it as the level of service for the customer is very lacking.
Customers need clarity, transparency and to know they aren't being ignored. That's how you turn an unhappy customer in to a happy customer, that's how you take a negative spin and make it positive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's probably worthwhile to put a little perspective on it though, at it's core we're really just talking about a video game being delayed. Many of us here are quite passionate about NS but it's hardly a crisis worth so much outrage. I'm not really sure what you would expect them to do? It seems that they've already acknowledged that there are huge performance issues and that they're well past their original target date. Obviously, they're working as fast as they can to get the game out there.
It's a little ridiculous how this thread devolved into another whine fest. I would of thought this announcement would have been a little more exciting to people.
<!--quoteo(post=1830335:date=Feb 7 2011, 10:06 PM:name=shiv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shiv @ Feb 7 2011, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a little ridiculous how this thread devolved into another whine fest. I would of thought this announcement would have been a little more exciting to people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's doing a "meet the team" video and taking up a lot of development time thus slowing the game. From a business perspective, he's doing more harm than good.
From a PR point of view, to those that are just watching it's good as they think "hey that's pretty cool"; and albeit it is an interesting thing, it's something that should be done when there is the time for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1830338:date=Feb 7 2011, 10:28 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 7 2011, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's doing a "meet the team" video and taking up a lot of development time thus slowing the game. From a business perspective, he's doing more harm than good.
From a PR point of view, to those that are just watching it's good as they think "hey that's pretty cool"; and albeit it is an interesting thing, it's something that should be done when there is the time for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cry some more? ANY PR this company can get it needs, remember they have no media team or publisher to advertise.
<!--quoteo(post=1830241:date=Feb 7 2011, 05:55 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Feb 7 2011, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So many tears in this thread. Please try to be slightly more positive instead of putting a negative spin on every single article. Then maybe these forums will be worth reading!
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
But.. but.. NS2HD gets more fps than I do!!?
grow up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You haven't been reading at all then. What ticks people off is the skewed way of portraying NS2, and how UWE has been on NS2HD like flies on ###### for that very reason. It's good for UWE, but some people don't care for that kind of publicity, as it harms NS2's reputation quite a bit for newcomers who find out it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
Also, calling people out for being jealous on NS2HD's performance makes you look like a right tosser, who obviously isn't interested in the frustrations new (and existing) players are having right now playing the game.
<!--QuoteBegin-'shiv'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('shiv')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a little ridiculous how this thread devolved into another whine fest. I would of thought this announcement would have been a little more exciting to people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While I can appreciate the insight that UWE is giving to outsiders, I don't agree people ought to be very excited over this. At the end of the day, fixing the insane lag, rubber-banding and crashes is what will garnish the most excitement and praise. This point also pertains to gorge-plushies and god oh god, Cory doing a belly-slide.
I do apologise for running the thread of NS2HD's finest hour, right into the ground.
<!--quoteo(post=1830341:date=Feb 7 2011, 10:45 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 7 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You haven't been reading at all then. What ticks people off is the skewed way of portraying NS2, and how UWE has been on NS2HD like flies on ###### for that very reason. It's good for UWE, but some people don't care for that kind of publicity, as it harms NS2's reputation quite a bit for newcomers who find out it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
Also, calling people out for being jealous on NS2HD's performance makes you look like a right tosser, who obviously isn't interested in the frustrations new (and existing) players are having right now playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Until the game is out, there is no misrepresentation of the game. Since it's not and there are major features missing, people need to recognize the fact that they bought something they may not be able to play for a while.
player has good point, i will quote myself to try explain the problem with NS2HD videos.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->his videos lack criticism that's why. Its one of mine biggest problems with his videos, he only shows you the best part of the game but when you or me play it - we notice everything else he never recorded. So yeah, that's the biggest problem you are having, and trust me its partly why I skip some of his videos but I do enjoy watching them some times. He's being doing good in advertising the game.
The video you describing had many problems with it, one of them is the lack of players on the server, and secondly it wasn't live game. (meaning not much was going on to begin with) that is why his fps weren't spiking like ours. Plus once marines, and aliens start building more unites on the map (especially hydras/turrets), fps sometimes drop like rock in the water. His videos usually lack many problems of the game, so end up only seeing one side of the game - usually anything new, and amazing but never the list of problems normal players usually experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
his videos are one sided. its like buying product based on what you saw on tv, but when you finally get it you notice problems you didn't when it was advertised. Player indeed has good point. NS2HD, needs to have balance opinions, not only everything that favors the company in positive way, those who watch his videos and buy the game will be shocked to see everything that was not included in those videos.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2011
The biggest danger here is that he looks like an official developer or insider of UWE to an outsider, even though he isn't. We've had this discussion before and even though he "mentions" the beta status and possible performance issues, it's just not clear enough. And to an outsider it could be brushed off as: "meh, I've got a very powerful rig... I don't expect my PC to encounter these issues"
While even the most powerful rigs can indeed get these issues. But as I said, on my somewhat older PC (so much difference per PC, powerfull or minimal), playing in between <a href="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5423146061_a4ee5b8680_o.jpg" target="_blank">25-30 fps</a> is plenty playable on a server that isn't having this rubber banding phenomena. Alas this is not the case most of the time, the constant FPS stutter doesn't help either. Of course these issues have been getting better or some and are being worked on but ->
All in all, it grinds down to new/uninformed people being disappointed, who don't want to toil trough the forums for answers right after the initial game launch...
UWE needs easier to access/understandable information for new people, alas this will take time away from precious dev time. No PR man on the team makes <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830226" target="_blank">George the Gorge</a> sad...
An automated disclaimer along with the NS2HD logo might do the trick. "NS2HD is not officially affiliated with UWE and his opinions are his own, and not necessarily factual nor unbiased"
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
NS2HD points out bugs in his videos. He certainly doesn't act like everything is just fine. But yeah, players should not believe everything that's said in the videos. NS2HD isn't lying, but he sometimes unknowingly says false information. So what...he corrects things when he's made aware.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1830357:date=Feb 7 2011, 11:48 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Feb 7 2011, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2HD points out bugs in his videos. He certainly doesn't act like everything is just fine. But yeah, players should not believe everything that's said in the videos. NS2HD isn't lying, but he sometimes unknowingly says false information. So what...he corrects things when he's made aware.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The sheer amount of video's makes getting this info from correctional followup video's kinda hard to come by though.
<!--quoteo(post=1830342:date=Feb 7 2011, 10:54 PM:name=AaronEl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AaronEl @ Feb 7 2011, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Until the game is out, there is no misrepresentation of the game. Since it's not and there are major features missing, people need to recognize the fact that they bought something they may not be able to play for a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point we're making. It's not advertised well enough. It's not very clear and the majority of people with out a major interest in the more technical aspect of the game don't have a bloody clue what any of this is about. They see a game, they want to play it. That's how they are, end of.
<!--quoteo(post=1830160:date=Feb 6 2011, 09:42 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 6 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The technical team is Max and Brian, and I believe Max IS working ONLY on performance issues, according to Cory's most recent posts, as well as Max's own posts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The technical tasks on the progress tracker page are my tasks, and the gameplay ones are Brian and Charlie's. Brian has made some enhancements to the engine, but he's mainly focused on gameplay improvements and bug fixes.
If NS2HD's videos confuse you or make you feel duped, how do you cope with the 24/7 highly sophisticated commercial bull###### bombardment done by ingenious professionals in real life?
Wow... guys, if someone's buying games based only on a handful of videos, they have more problems with their impulse buys than complaints on a form can fix. I can only imagine how much garbage they buy off "As-seen-on-TV" commercials.
UWE wants good PR to spread word about their game, right? NS2HD is helping in that regard: 1) Do you think UWE benefits more from NS2HD showing the *good* points about their game, or the *bad* points? 2) His videos do make NS2 look better than it currently is. 3) But seriously, do you WANT to watch a 15-minute video about a laggy game that didn't really have an exciting conclusion? No one would watch it! 4) Making videos about good gameplay increase traffic to both UWE and to NS2HD's own channel. (so I have no idea why someone wouldn't expect him to carefully pick videos that make his subject look fun)
Realistic reviews of games are good. They tell the consumer whether the product is worth their money, and give honest opinions. However, NS2HD is not a review. He's not telling anyone if the game's good or not, he's just a fan showing videos about a game he's excited about. On top of that, NS2 is not finished. UWE tells you this via a huge "BETA" sign, and the fact that you "pre-order" instead of simply purchase. If you have misconceptions about what a beta means, then that's not a video blogger's fault.
It's easy for people to write derogatory comments via forum, though lets all remember that some enthusiasts take 'THEIR' time out of the day to insist in things they 'LOVE' doing. So people who prefer sit on their ass and banter, look in other peoples perspectives and find happiness within yourself for once.
EDIT: The thing is too, a lot of people create negative feedback before the positive. And it's a global issue, you see things on the news, negative. You read something in the paper, negative. It's everywhere. Change your perspective and think of the positive outcomes before the negative. Positivity as a whole has far more potential and change then negativity. IF the team was negative, what would they change? Think about that.
<!--quoteo(post=1830390:date=Feb 7 2011, 09:57 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 7 2011, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm actually creating a level via Spark right now and player has created the adminmod addon which he's keeping up to date among various things.
We can see both sides of the coin. <b>We're enjoying making custom content with the tools that have been provided to us; equally, we expect better. </b> I don't see what's so wrong with that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I... don't understand what you enjoying the tools they worked their butts off to give you entitles you to anything.
If you think the game isn't advertised well enough, do your part and contribute to the word of mouth spreading, I guess.
His concern is just with the way that all of NS2HD's videos are positive, sometimes misinformative*. I don't see this as an issue, because as you said, it's not a review, and it's not official; it's a <b>fan</b> showing a video of a game he's excited about. I think most people do understand this, and only a "special" few don't. *As said, he does correct this, and the fact is, people who watch his videos watch most of his videos as they come out, so when he DOES correct something, MOST of his viewers WILL know about it.
We would be stupid to gear our PR around performance issues and bugs. I'm sure Hugh feels the same, as he is trying to promote his channel, make entertaining movies, and is very enthusiastic about helping us out...which is the reason he started his channel in the first place. Pure unselfish desire to help promote a game and company he believes in.
Some of you people are treating this like Hugh and UWE are a tobacco company covering up the fact that smoking causes cancer. We have been clear that the game is in a BETA phase, and while some may disagree as to the definition of what exactly Beta means, I think everyone can agree that it means THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED. If people expect a bug free, smooth playing experience all I can say is, I'm sorry. Someone mentioned that our customer service is lacking, and I strongly disagree. We are on the forums every day informing our "customers" about the progress of the game, the issues that are going on, and explaining the development process. We try to help out people with technical issues as often as we can.
Now, it would be great to move on and focus on the fact that Hugh spent a lot of money to fly a veeery long way to come hang out with us for a few days, and while I doubt that some negative comments can crush his seemingly boundless enthusiasm for what he is doing, it still would be nice to try and keep, at least this thread, a little more on the positive side.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I see Hugh's trip to UWE in the spirit it has been intended - an awesomely fun experience to have on a personal level (seriously, how neat) and you get a chance to share some juicy details when you begin filming about how the game and the team are progressing.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with so far (hurry up! :) ) and think its great that this has happened, and I'm not even there!
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Negativity is the current social motto, it goes well beyond NS2. Its a shame you have to put up with it but I guess as they say adversity creates character. I think you all (UWE and hugh) are doing a great job and it's amazing that you keep focused even among all this animosity.
There are only three types of reactions whatever your actions: the love, the hate and from most of all the ignorance. Here some love :D GO UWE! GO HUGHEE! GO UWE! GO HUGHEE!
<!--quoteo(post=1830462:date=Feb 8 2011, 08:50 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 8 2011, 08:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone mentioned that our customer service is lacking, and I strongly disagree. We are on the forums every day informing our "customers" about the progress of the game, the issues that are going on, and explaining the development process. We try to help out people with technical issues as often as we can.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During NS1 you had Zunni who was great, who was in I&S and doing a lot of talking to people about the modification at the time, it's problems and ways forward. You need a guy like that again, Zunni did a top notch job and was a forward guy for you at the time. Whatever happened to him anyway?
Some people need to lighten up - this is a video game - it's supposed to be FUN! NS2HD vids are made by a fan of this GAME because he likes it and wants to support it. If you really expect scientific clinical style investigation why not make your own channel? Anyone can make a youtube channel!
And don't complain that UWE want to work with him. They need to make money and of course they will choose someone who can represent them positively. The negative attitude is not helpful, UWE know what is wrong with the game and are working on it. This is not public politics /shakefist
Instead of blaming NS2HD or UWE I would blame all the big companies which put out demos and call them "beta" when there is nothing beta-ish about it. Most betas I played recently were just feature complete release versions with a "beta" label on it to circumvent the problem of release-day bugs. People just get a wrong impression what a beta is (and should be) about...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of blaming NS2HD or UWE I would blame all the big companies which put out demos and call them "beta" when there is nothing beta-ish about it. Most betas I played recently were just feature complete release versions with a "beta" label on it to circumvent the problem of release-day bugs. People just get a wrong impression what a beta is (and should be) about...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why didn't UWE just continue to call the game Alpha and avoid even that possibility? Gee, we know the answer. You can't blame other companies for UWE's choice. They needed more money so they slapped "Beta" on it and sales improved.
There's no reason to bag on Hugh and he's doing his part for NS2 for free. Actually, he's doing his part for NS2 and is in the red having spent his own money to fly to UWE. But don't forget, I and everyone else that has paid for the game has also invested in UWE. We are all stake-holders in this.
The frustration that exists is because UWE did not seemingly do EITHER of these things:
1) Release a perfectly functional game in terms of server stability and frame rate (optimization)- then add in game features over time. 2) Release a feature complete game - then add in server stability and frame rate fixes (optimization) over time.
Instead we have a ######ized hybrid that BOTH has performance issues AND isn't feature complete. And it's called Beta. There's an odd sense of progression from patch to patch without clear results to back it up. Several patches have made the game completely unplayable in every sense of the word, and several patches have fixed those patches - but without substantially adding to the game. Why are they spending time nerfing the flamethrower, increasing turret cost and removing lerk roost when the game still doesn't work? That describes what I feel is the real heart of the matter and the source of dissatisfaction.
I understand that "programming is programming" - again I'm commenting more about the feel of the design approach. Work has to be done. I also understand that working on one facet of the game does not take away time from another facet (like art vs server optimization for example) and that both can be worked on simultaneously.
The fact is lots of people are not seeing the game becoming finished any time soon. Instead, it looks like it's getting bogged down. It looks like the game is going to take "forever" and that causes a lot of frustration because people really want this game now just like they wanted it in Fall 2009.
When I look at the Twitter feed and it says they have a prototype DI coming into the game, that is something that deserves a video immediately. You want people to literally see that the game is "just about to be done". I can't really think of a reason you would not show something like this when you've already shown so many other things that were still in "alpha" stages.
I will end this with the fact that I still think NS2 will be a great game, and I do have faith that UWE will finish the game...sometime. However, since there is no release date or literally weekly updates like they proposed as a goal for themselves, my interest is waning. I also like a lot of other games on the horizon that I think are going to come out sooner and that makes me regret investing in UWE.
Wow... just one point at Pr0n, this is a game <b>development</b> blog.
Also thanks Cory for replying. I feel sorry for you cause I know you read so much of the forum and the people that are really impressed and are enjoying watching a real development process unfortunately don't post as much / as vocally.
<!--quoteo(post=1830503:date=Feb 8 2011, 11:43 PM:name=Pr0n)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pr0n @ Feb 8 2011, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are they spending time nerfing the flamethrower, increasing turret cost and removing lerk roost when the game still doesn't work? That describes what I feel is the real heart of the matter and the source of dissatisfaction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can answer this. It's a division of labour, due to specialisation. Of the programmers, Max is the Engine guy, Brian and Charlie are the Game guys. What are you gonna do? Let Brian and Charlie sit on their hands while we wait for Max to finish?
Comments
Customers need clarity, transparency and to know they aren't being ignored. That's how you turn an unhappy customer in to a happy customer, that's how you take a negative spin and make it positive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's probably worthwhile to put a little perspective on it though, at it's core we're really just talking about a video game being delayed. Many of us here are quite passionate about NS but it's hardly a crisis worth so much outrage. I'm not really sure what you would expect them to do? It seems that they've already acknowledged that there are huge performance issues and that they're well past their original target date. Obviously, they're working as fast as they can to get the game out there.
It's a little ridiculous how this thread devolved into another whine fest. I would of thought this announcement would have been a little more exciting to people.
I lol'd pretty hard.
He's doing a "meet the team" video and taking up a lot of development time thus slowing the game. From a business perspective, he's doing more harm than good.
From a PR point of view, to those that are just watching it's good as they think "hey that's pretty cool"; and albeit it is an interesting thing, it's something that should be done when there is the time for it.
From a PR point of view, to those that are just watching it's good as they think "hey that's pretty cool"; and albeit it is an interesting thing, it's something that should be done when there is the time for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cry some more? ANY PR this company can get it needs, remember they have no media team or publisher to advertise.
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
But.. but.. NS2HD gets more fps than I do!!?
grow up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't been reading at all then. What ticks people off is the skewed way of portraying NS2, and how UWE has been on NS2HD like flies on ###### for that very reason. It's good for UWE, but some people don't care for that kind of publicity, as it harms NS2's reputation quite a bit for newcomers who find out it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
Also, calling people out for being jealous on NS2HD's performance makes you look like a right tosser, who obviously isn't interested in the frustrations new (and existing) players are having right now playing the game.
<!--QuoteBegin-'shiv'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('shiv')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a little ridiculous how this thread devolved into another whine fest. I would of thought this announcement would have been a little more exciting to people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I can appreciate the insight that UWE is giving to outsiders, I don't agree people ought to be very excited over this. At the end of the day, fixing the insane lag, rubber-banding and crashes is what will garnish the most excitement and praise. This point also pertains to gorge-plushies and god oh god, Cory doing a belly-slide.
I do apologise for running the thread of NS2HD's finest hour, right into the ground.
Also, calling people out for being jealous on NS2HD's performance makes you look like a right tosser, who obviously isn't interested in the frustrations new (and existing) players are having right now playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until the game is out, there is no misrepresentation of the game. Since it's not and there are major features missing, people need to recognize the fact that they bought something they may not be able to play for a while.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->his videos lack criticism that's why. Its one of mine biggest problems with his videos, he only shows you the best part of the game but when you or me play it - we notice everything else he never recorded. So yeah, that's the biggest problem you are having, and trust me its partly why I skip some of his videos but I do enjoy watching them some times. He's being doing good in advertising the game.
The video you describing had many problems with it, one of them is the lack of players on the server, and secondly it wasn't live game. (meaning not much was going on to begin with) that is why his fps weren't spiking like ours. Plus once marines, and aliens start building more unites on the map (especially hydras/turrets), fps sometimes drop like rock in the water. His videos usually lack many problems of the game, so end up only seeing one side of the game - usually anything new, and amazing but never the list of problems normal players usually experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
his videos are one sided. its like buying product based on what you saw on tv, but when you finally get it you notice problems you didn't when it was advertised. Player indeed has good point. NS2HD, needs to have balance opinions, not only everything that favors the company in positive way, those who watch his videos and buy the game will be shocked to see everything that was not included in those videos.
While even the most powerful rigs can indeed get these issues. But as I said, on my somewhat older PC (so much difference per PC, powerfull or minimal), playing in between <a href="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5423146061_a4ee5b8680_o.jpg" target="_blank">25-30 fps</a> is plenty playable on a server that isn't having this rubber banding phenomena. Alas this is not the case most of the time, the constant FPS stutter doesn't help either. Of course these issues have been getting better or some and are being worked on but ->
All in all, it grinds down to new/uninformed people being disappointed, who don't want to toil trough the forums for answers right after the initial game launch...
UWE needs easier to access/understandable information for new people, alas this will take time away from precious dev time. No PR man on the team makes <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830226" target="_blank">George the Gorge</a> sad...
The sheer amount of video's makes getting this info from correctional followup video's kinda hard to come by though.
That's the point we're making. It's not advertised well enough. It's not very clear and the majority of people with out a major interest in the more technical aspect of the game don't have a bloody clue what any of this is about. They see a game, they want to play it. That's how they are, end of.
The technical tasks on the progress tracker page are my tasks, and the gameplay ones are Brian and Charlie's. Brian has made some enhancements to the engine, but he's mainly focused on gameplay improvements and bug fixes.
UWE wants good PR to spread word about their game, right? NS2HD is helping in that regard:
1) Do you think UWE benefits more from NS2HD showing the *good* points about their game, or the *bad* points?
2) His videos do make NS2 look better than it currently is.
3) But seriously, do you WANT to watch a 15-minute video about a laggy game that didn't really have an exciting conclusion? No one would watch it!
4) Making videos about good gameplay increase traffic to both UWE and to NS2HD's own channel. (so I have no idea why someone wouldn't expect him to carefully pick videos that make his subject look fun)
Realistic reviews of games are good. They tell the consumer whether the product is worth their money, and give honest opinions. However, NS2HD is not a review. He's not telling anyone if the game's good or not, he's just a fan showing videos about a game he's excited about.
On top of that, NS2 is not finished. UWE tells you this via a huge "BETA" sign, and the fact that you "pre-order" instead of simply purchase. If you have misconceptions about what a beta means, then that's not a video blogger's fault.
EDIT: The thing is too, a lot of people create negative feedback before the positive. And it's a global issue, you see things on the news, negative. You read something in the paper, negative. It's everywhere. Change your perspective and think of the positive outcomes before the negative. Positivity as a whole has far more potential and change then negativity. IF the team was negative, what would they change? Think about that.
We can see both sides of the coin. We're enjoying making custom content with the tools that have been provided to us; equally, we expect better.
I don't see what's so wrong with that.
We can see both sides of the coin. <b>We're enjoying making custom content with the tools that have been provided to us; equally, we expect better.
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I don't see what's so wrong with that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I... don't understand what you enjoying the tools they worked their butts off to give you entitles you to anything.
If you think the game isn't advertised well enough, do your part and contribute to the word of mouth spreading, I guess.
*As said, he does correct this, and the fact is, people who watch his videos watch most of his videos as they come out, so when he DOES correct something, MOST of his viewers WILL know about it.
Some of you people are treating this like Hugh and UWE are a tobacco company covering up the fact that smoking causes cancer. We have been clear that the game is in a BETA phase, and while some may disagree as to the definition of what exactly Beta means, I think everyone can agree that it means THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED. If people expect a bug free, smooth playing experience all I can say is, I'm sorry. Someone mentioned that our customer service is lacking, and I strongly disagree. We are on the forums every day informing our "customers" about the progress of the game, the issues that are going on, and explaining the development process. We try to help out people with technical issues as often as we can.
Now, it would be great to move on and focus on the fact that Hugh spent a lot of money to fly a veeery long way to come hang out with us for a few days, and while I doubt that some negative comments can crush his seemingly boundless enthusiasm for what he is doing, it still would be nice to try and keep, at least this thread, a little more on the positive side.
Thanks.
--Cory
I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with so far (hurry up! :) ) and think its great that this has happened, and I'm not even there!
Keep up the good work everyone.
There are only three types of reactions whatever your actions: the love, the hate and from most of all the ignorance. Here some love :D GO UWE! GO HUGHEE! GO UWE! GO HUGHEE!
PR could do better, but i guess thats why you guys are hiring a PR person:)
During NS1 you had Zunni who was great, who was in I&S and doing a lot of talking to people about the modification at the time, it's problems and ways forward. You need a guy like that again, Zunni did a top notch job and was a forward guy for you at the time. Whatever happened to him anyway?
And don't complain that UWE want to work with him. They need to make money and of course they will choose someone who can represent them positively. The negative attitude is not helpful, UWE know what is wrong with the game and are working on it. This is not public politics /shakefist
People just get a wrong impression what a beta is (and should be) about...
People just get a wrong impression what a beta is (and should be) about...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why didn't UWE just continue to call the game Alpha and avoid even that possibility? Gee, we know the answer. You can't blame other companies for UWE's choice. They needed more money so they slapped "Beta" on it and sales improved.
There's no reason to bag on Hugh and he's doing his part for NS2 for free. Actually, he's doing his part for NS2 and is in the red having spent his own money to fly to UWE. But don't forget, I and everyone else that has paid for the game has also invested in UWE. We are all stake-holders in this.
The frustration that exists is because UWE did not seemingly do EITHER of these things:
1) Release a perfectly functional game in terms of server stability and frame rate (optimization)- then add in game features over time.
2) Release a feature complete game - then add in server stability and frame rate fixes (optimization) over time.
Instead we have a ######ized hybrid that BOTH has performance issues AND isn't feature complete. And it's called Beta. There's an odd sense of progression from patch to patch without clear results to back it up. Several patches have made the game completely unplayable in every sense of the word, and several patches have fixed those patches - but without substantially adding to the game. Why are they spending time nerfing the flamethrower, increasing turret cost and removing lerk roost when the game still doesn't work? That describes what I feel is the real heart of the matter and the source of dissatisfaction.
I understand that "programming is programming" - again I'm commenting more about the feel of the design approach. Work has to be done.
I also understand that working on one facet of the game does not take away time from another facet (like art vs server optimization for example) and that both can be worked on simultaneously.
The fact is lots of people are not seeing the game becoming finished any time soon. Instead, it looks like it's getting bogged down. It looks like the game is going to take "forever" and that causes a lot of frustration because people really want this game now just like they wanted it in Fall 2009.
When I look at the Twitter feed and it says they have a prototype DI coming into the game, that is something that deserves a video immediately. You want people to literally see that the game is "just about to be done". I can't really think of a reason you would not show something like this when you've already shown so many other things that were still in "alpha" stages.
I will end this with the fact that I still think NS2 will be a great game, and I do have faith that UWE will finish the game...sometime. However, since there is no release date or literally weekly updates like they proposed as a goal for themselves, my interest is waning. I also like a lot of other games on the horizon that I think are going to come out sooner and that makes me regret investing in UWE.
Also thanks Cory for replying. I feel sorry for you cause I know you read so much of the forum and the people that are really impressed and are enjoying watching a real development process unfortunately don't post as much / as vocally.
<3 at UWE.
I can answer this. It's a division of labour, due to specialisation. Of the programmers, Max is the Engine guy, Brian and Charlie are the Game guys. What are you gonna do? Let Brian and Charlie sit on their hands while we wait for Max to finish?