Teamwork

Koruyo

<div class="IPBDescription">And why the Squad-buff-system wont fix the core problem</div>Its very problematic, that players dont have to care as much about teamwork anymore...

Buy weapons or gestate into lifeforms as you please... without sense or objectives.

The problem is bigger on the marine side, since aliens are more clear because each lifeform is very different. (still they need work too)

Skulk - Basic attack unit, weak but agile, wallclimbing and leap
Lerk - Offensive range support (Gas splits marines => focus fire is harder) not as weak but can fly
Fade - Assassine like, relative strong and blink - very powerfull (should be expensive)
Gorge - Defense support - current set of abilitys is weak
Onos - Tanky Support - dunno yet, Ground slow but big and tanky.

Marine, same health armor and speed + random weapon.


Atm you dont have to care about wasting res in weapons or lifeforms, and you dont need special weapon x(lifeform) to do y and there is no real downside having weapon(lifeform) x and making you want to protect that person by having weapon(lifeform) Z.

In ns1 you had the shotgunner that protects you from smaller lifeforms(and not bad agsint medium/strong ones), welder guy that supports dmg a bit but also keeps the group alive (+medpacks from comm)
Nadeluncher dude against structures or lerks in vents (needs to be protected, is dead if alone) etc.

And because weapons cost important res you couldnt afford to waste weapons on solo rambos. If you spend res - you need to make the best out of it.(IMPACT on res managment) Run with this guy, protect the weapon (res) from despawning.

You felt special, and your mates saw the benefit in staying togheter acting as a team.

And it wasnt effective to have only special weapon X.(at least in lower tier tech) Like a group of marines equiped with nadelunchers only - wasnt viable - they would just die, because weapons have downsides too for beeing very effective against something.


In NS2 Teams dont have to care about good teamwork, everything is effective... fade is ready? - They all go fade. Flamethrower is ready? - All run around with Flamethrower.
No real need to manage resources, or counter X with Y.

You dont feel special if you got weapon X, and you dont really need X to counter Y.

There is no OMG A FADE! OMG A FLAMETHROWER! Ok team do X buy Z goto Y...
You just dont care... if you die, just come back with the same lifeform/weapon.


Improve up and downsides of weapons, make it situational... like you counter mass air units with anti air in every other rts, you counter mass structures with gl in ns... but at the same time make it important to keep this unit alive, because its vulnerable alone, weapon despawn etc.
Make ppl feel special and have a special role with weaponX or lifeform, and make others care. And not just everybody with weapon X or everybody in lifeform X.
Make them see a benefit in having a variation of weapons in a squad.


I know its very complicated, but just throwing in a buff if ppl stand togheter wont fix the core problem.


Edit: I also miss options, like tech in a special direction
Both teams just research their stuff... you dont have special tech directions or counters, and you always stay kinda on the same lvl.
Every team got a free tier2 upgrade -yay. Aliens go fast fade, marines go shotgun then flamethrower... the rest is not important atm.

ScardyBob

tldr version: Game still needs balancing

Teamwork is effective in B162. Most of the problem is that there are so few people (max server size = 14 rather than 32) that its hard to do any teamwork more than 3-4 at a time. However, when I do see people work together, they are pretty much a mobile demolition squad. I've both won and lost badly to people working together.

l3lessed

I think the easiest and most direct way of dealing with this is allowing the commander to specify what weapons the team should be using. So he can click on the armory and designate two shotguns, one flamer, a nade launcher, and so on. You could do this one of two ways.

1. You could have it optional. This means that the weapon load outs are only recommended to the players, but if a player wanted to ignore the commander a get another weapon he could.

2. You could make it mandatory. This means that marines have to buy the weapons the commander tells them too. This would also come on a first come first serve basis.

Heroman117

While its been stated numerous times before, NS1 is a completed, balanced game, all of its assets and features are implemented and tweaked. NS2 on the other hand is not, which is why although certain game mechanisms may seem to not work with each other right now when not everything is implemented. For example i never believed that the devs expacted the flamethrower would evolve into the uber - kills everything- weapon that it is right now, and they have already shown that it was not their intention when they lowered damage but made it so burning aliens wouldn't regenerate energy, making the flamer a support weapon, even will become more of a support weapon when DI gets implemented, making the flamer's primary function to clear infestation, also when Onos gets implemented flamer will become less effective as the killing machine it is somewhat now and what it defiantly used to be.

With the current state of the game taken out of consideration, then yes, if this were the exact way that the game will be released as is, then i would see a problem, the flamer would need to become a primary support weapon, the grenade launcher would need to become less effective at killing lifeforms, but more effect at killing structures (it already has been, but still i think should be done to a even greater extent). Also the shotgun needs to be changed, right now it is superior in taking down structures and lifeforms, even greater than the flamer, which i believe should be less effective at killing players, but more effective at taking out structures. Shotguns need to be superior in killing lifeforms, and inferior in killing structures, while at the moment it is superior in every aspect except in long range, but then again thats what you got your pistol for. Of course we'll never really know what makes a team of marines/ aliens the most dynamic, each member fulfilling their specialized roles, until we see Onos, jetpacks, exosuits. Because once these factors are brought into the equation, the result may completely change.

While i completely condone people discussing gameplay and balancing, but i think looking at current issues in gameplay should only be taken with a grain of salt until we get the full picture, and the game is feature complete with decent stability server side as well as client side.

Svenpa

I find the 2 commander approach along with getting guns from personal resources has made players a lot less caring about the commander(s), and thus shot teamworking as a whole in the foot. In a perfect world everyone would still work together and listen to the commander but I can't tell how many times I've given someone a weapon in NS1 just to have him run off the opposite direction I ordered him to. Back then I could remember who it was and deny him the same weapon if he wouldn't comply, now he can do it as much as he pleases. The commander role is mostly sought because of the power you get over the players, removing that AND adding another really just begs for temporary commanders conflicting with each other and a lot of switching.

I can also see why they did it, to differentiate from NS1. I imagine tons of "NS2 is NS1 in HD" comments spewing all over the internets if that was the case but as it is now, I can't see it working as (I assume) "intended" in public games. It will be more like Counter-Strike but with asymmetrical teams. These are pretty major features I don't expect to be "balanced" out along the beta development.