- Harvesters shouldn't require DI <b>- DI spread should be required to start on existing DI</b> (same as SC2 creep spread) or be given a "target" towards which it should slowly (or boosted with energy) spread. It's too easy to just drop it along a path and cover huge ground with it in a couple seconds
Positives: - Asymmetry is awesome - Provides a stronger Gorge role - You have to actively maintain control over regions
Negatives: - Hard to tell when DI is connected (solve via color-coding in Alien Vision for Gorges and Alien Comms) - Spammable in the wrong places (hullo MS) - Sound can get overpowering
Some ideas: - Need some way to restrict where DI can be produced. Either via a building and/or the Hives. This will prevent MS spam. So, within a radius you can spawn DI anywhere, but outside you have to extend existing DI. - Need a cleaner way to detect where DI ends/connects/etc. Gorge Alien Vision and Alien Comm need this. - Need a cleaner way to manage DI spam over multiple Hives. Pooled DI energy or some such. Not as needed (see NS1 multiple obs spam) but would be appreciated.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I think the ms infestation spam would be solved easily if they just made the gorge the only infestation painter.
Sure a gorge could run in and spew it but not if you're protecting the base. Currently it's just a bunch of infestation growing out of nowhere attacking the marines.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1833450:date=Feb 18 2011, 07:35 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 18 2011, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the ms infestation spam would be solved easily if they just made the gorge the only infestation painter.
Sure a gorge could run in and spew it but not if you're protecting the base. Currently it's just a bunch of infestation growing out of nowhere attacking the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would actually increase the load on the server, since Gorges can create DI nodes a lot quicker, resulting in over 100 DI patches over the map very quickly.
I would suggest: 1. Allow only commanders to spawn Infestation. 2. Gorges should be able to keep disconnected nodes alive, as well as speed up the growth of each node (as if constructing a building). 3. Display the health, and range of each Infestation node/patch to Gorges (or all aliens) when under the crosshair. 4. Create exlusion zones around each Infestation patch for other DI patches, so they cannot be placed too close to one another.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2011
It would be better because marines can actually shoot the thing that's spamming infestation in their base as opposed to it appearing magically at the beginning of the game.
I'm sick of burning infestation to have more appear magically behind me/under my feet.
Like very slow drifter path finding, DI should automatically grow towards the nearest resource point and tech point. Additionally there should be a radial growth dependent on the hive's upgrade level. The higher the upgrade level, the further the hives 'arms' will reach out.
Maybe, the DI should have the ability to jam doors and seal openings.
I admit that I do not have enough understanding about how it affects game play yet, but this seems to make sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1833351:date=Feb 18 2011, 09:12 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 18 2011, 09:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've actually had a good thought about infestation that I think would be more effective.
Instead of the commander 'linking up' areas of the map, it should instead automatically path / grow between selected hives and nodes within a hive's infestation radius.
For example:
# You start with your initial hive, this gives access to two RTs within its infestation radius.
# When you send a drifter to build an RT, whilst building the DI grows between the hive and the RT (which would look very cool, like a snake through the level).
# Hives can be built anywhere, which give access to more RTs.
The commander should be able to use the 'infest' button, as well as the Gorge. But perhaps this costs a lot more energy to infest a room completely, and reduces spam.
The <b>GREAT</b> thing about this, is that it does not matter how big or small the map is. It will effectively work in the same way by just linking up RTs within range.
It also means commanders can't spam infestation as much, and the fights would orientate round the res towers instead of the DI itself. So it would only link up once you have taken down an RT and then placed one there.
I think this would be a hell of a lot better tbh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea also, What about DI only able to spread once power nodes are destroyed?
So if theres light in the room it cant spread through it, and the DI can spread into the powernode and act as a "shield" from easily being repaired?
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
There's got to be some other way to clear DI besides the TOP TIER flamethrower. Make it less efficient, whatever, but there has to be something to clear it out for the beginning and mid-game.
<!--quoteo(post=1833551:date=Feb 19 2011, 08:29 AM:name=methewarnold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (methewarnold @ Feb 19 2011, 08:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The scientist suggests that the declared costs of $100,000 for apiece separate who is unfortunate is too elated and does not cover into consideration the variance amongst those who are homeless. To resolve the avowedly value of bearing a chronically unfortunate consumer at theDI , (those with the highest no. of stays in 2009 - day and nighttime period which includes Modification Reduction) the researchers undertook an reasoning of the ratio of remain and brake employment interactions of the top 50 users at theDI . Within our top 50 chronically unsettled clients, there were 27 EMS calls and 9 CPS calls (tally) during 2009. The calls were ascribable to 15 individuals in our top 50 users. The calculations demonstrate that at most, the maximal individual confirmed unsettled cypher little than half of what the Calgary altitudinous use of exigency facilities costs active $13,000. Essentially, this speculate shows that homelessness does not outlay as such as awaited, but nevertheless, tending is necessary to how to win homelessness generally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 Thats exactly how we envision DI working ...eh...yeah...on another note: <!--quoteo(post=1833417:date=Feb 19 2011, 12:05 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 19 2011, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Need some way to restrict where DI can be produced. Either via a building and/or the Hives. This will prevent MS spam. So, within a radius you can spawn DI anywhere, but outside you have to extend existing DI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Weird, I'm pretty sure dropping DI in the MS at the beginning of a game is not supposed to be happening. As far as I know there is supposed to be a certain range from the Hive that DI can be created within, not just being able to drop it anywhere, so if its not working like that then its probably a bug or it hasn't been fully implemented like that yet. --Cory
<!--quoteo(post=1833551:date=Feb 19 2011, 07:29 PM:name=methewarnold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (methewarnold @ Feb 19 2011, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The scientist suggests that the declared costs of $100,000 for apiece separate who is unfortunate is too elated and does not cover into consideration the variance amongst those who are homeless. To resolve the avowedly value of bearing a chronically unfortunate consumer at theDI , (those with the highest no. of stays in 2009 - day and nighttime period which includes Modification Reduction) the researchers undertook an reasoning of the ratio of remain and brake employment interactions of the top 50 users at theDI . Within our top 50 chronically unsettled clients, there were 27 EMS calls and 9 CPS calls (tally) during 2009. The calls were ascribable to 15 individuals in our top 50 users. The calculations demonstrate that at most, the maximal individual confirmed unsettled cypher little than half of what the Calgary altitudinous use of exigency facilities costs active $13,000. Essentially, this speculate shows that homelessness does not outlay as such as awaited, but nevertheless, tending is necessary to how to win homelessness generally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1833401:date=Feb 19 2011, 12:14 AM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Feb 19 2011, 12:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I killed the hive's infestation spot and it instantly killed the rest. I don't mean I killed the hive, it was just fine. You can burn that initial infestation patch and the rest will instantly die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup you're right, mayb I was to early to say what I did. Killing the allien Hive seems to be an effective way of killing the DI...
+ -Adds a cool layer to gorge -I found building DI networks fun for the brief time I played... not sure how long that will last! -Can see its potential as an obstructive type weapon, particularly for dumping on unclaimed rts and tech points. Though it would be cool if there were a few more levels to its use, e.g. you could build up DI also, to make it harder to remove or more obstructive etc.
- -Hard to identify unconnected DI -Cumbersome to fill in DI gaps (since you cant seem to drop DI on DI). -The animation for gorge DI drop looks wrong. Needs to look/feel more like the gorge is placing the DI.
-Aside -Server I played on really struggled after 5 minutes. Not many hydras or buildings down. A reasonable amount of DI. Whether or not its related.
Maybe the "end" of DI should be visible in commander view by a thick border. When placing a new patch the commander and gorge see the borders and the border of the max size of the patch they are going to place.
DI is def a big cause of lag once a big portion of the map is infected (and no hydra's present), Im starting to get lag spikes and connection problems..
That being said DI adds a very nice and interesting aspect to the game that gives us an exponential increase of tactical options, and thats one thing I like ;-)
Although phrased a question, and in doubt, <!--quoteo(post=1833609:date=Feb 19 2011, 10:05 PM:name=Scribbles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scribbles @ Feb 19 2011, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does DI work, by the way?
I always thought it was supposed to spread rapidly and was only stopped by rooms with power nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> THIS is how I believe DI should work as a game mechanic. It's that whole idea of territories.
+ There is now a need for a dedicated commander on the alien side. Before this, you only had to hop in every couple minutes, build a couple buildings, and hop out. + The fact that energy is used to spread infestation gives drifters some competition. Drifters are no longer a throw-away unit. + Early gorges can restrict the placement of commonly chosen marine extractors, forcing the marines to be more aggressive to compensate for their slower resource flow.
Negative
- It doesn't fit the alien playstyle very well because it encourages consolidation. It actually resembles the original idea for the marine power grid, in that you can cut off the supply chain by attacking key infestation patches. - It doesn't scale well with map size. - Gorge DI and commander DI are independent of each other.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Two bugs I've noticed with DI: 1. It can connect to each other through walls. 2. If you accidentally click on a part of the map off of the ground (beam, column, railing, etc.), it builds on that part instead of the ground below.
<!--quoteo(post=1833552:date=Feb 19 2011, 03:46 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 19 2011, 03:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weird, I'm pretty sure dropping DI in the MS at the beginning of a game is not supposed to be happening. As far as I know there is supposed to be a certain range from the Hive that DI can be created within, not just being able to drop it anywhere, so if its not working like that then its probably a bug or it hasn't been fully implemented like that yet. --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, wow. That has HUGE gameplay ramifications. For instance, that DI could never bust down doors* far from hives, because DI could never reach that far. For instance, the east door of Tram Marine start. Aliens won't be able to forward-build Crags anymore in the end-game, making it harder to wipe out the last marine base. Ditto for Bombard*, and Shift*.
*when that feature is added
If the DI is going to be Hive-range limited, are Aliens going to get some kind of DI-extension unit/upgrade in mid-game/late-game? Otherwise it will be really hard to close out games.
• It slows down the otherwise instant alien expansion to all hives and rts that was occurring in prior patches.
• The clearing of DI gives marines a chance to prevent gorges from spamming hydra in conquered territory.
• Can't wait for 3D geometry-generating DI that covers the lights!
Negatives:
• Flamethrower is very ineffective at clearing DI which makes the task very frustrating (and the quickly regrowing DI is making the act of keeping marine start clear a futile effort). I run out of fuel almost a minute after leaving the armory! The reason is approximately 1 bottle of fuel is required to clear 1 patch of DI, which means either the max ammo of the FT and/or the damage needs serious buffing.
• Marine-start is being blanketed in infestation. If this happens before FT, then the marine ability to build structures in base can be severely impaired.
• GL has no effect on DI (or its just impossibly hard to hit the DI weak-spot with a bouncing+delayed grenade), and turrets seem to lock onto DI, and fire non-stop, with no effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1833730:date=Feb 19 2011, 09:34 PM:name=Squidget)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squidget @ Feb 19 2011, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, wow. That has HUGE gameplay ramifications. For instance, that DI could never bust down doors* far from hives, because DI could never reach that far. For instance, the east door of Tram Marine start. Aliens won't be able to forward-build Crags anymore in the end-game, making it harder to wipe out the last marine base. Ditto for Bombard*, and Shift*.
*when that feature is added
If the DI is going to be Hive-range limited, are Aliens going to get some kind of DI-extension unit/upgrade in mid-game/late-game? Otherwise it will be really hard to close out games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, I guess I didn't mean that you can never build DI outside of the Hive range. I just had thought that there was a starting range for creating it, and that DI had to be expanded outward from the hives, within range of the hive or within range of other newly constructed DI. Rather then the commander just being able to click anywhere on the map and drop down DI. So, potentially an alien commander could get DI all the way to the marine base, but it would just take a long time and be more of a game ender situation, rather then being able to start dropping it down in MS right from the start of the game, which is what it sounded like was happening from some of the posts on here. I'll have to double check on how exactly Charlie intends on it working.
In short, the Alien Commander can use Infest only on existing infestation, such as the starting Hive's patch or ones created by Gorge. In a way, similar to the Creep Tumor mechanic in SC2, just that the nodes are invisible without Flamethrower lighting them up.
Btw, it feels sort of weird having an entire patch disappear when a node is killed. Will it be changed so that the node acts if it was disconnected from a Hive when on fire, and recede instead of outright disappearing?
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Starting to think structures dying when the infestation goes away and not being able to place anything is too harsh on the alien team.
The structure's regeneration and growth should only be affected.
So a commander could have a drifter place a whip or res tower somewhere without infestation, and have a gorge finish developing it. (Either by dropping infestation or with the use key.)
When the infestation goes away the alien structure's ability to slowly regenerate by itself will be disabled. (Going with the regenerating health on infestation theme.)
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1833788:date=Feb 19 2011, 04:12 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 19 2011, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, I guess I didn't mean that you can never build DI outside of the Hive range. I just had thought that there was a starting range for creating it, and that DI had to be expanded outward from the hives, within range of the hive or within range of other newly constructed DI. Rather then the commander just being able to click anywhere on the map and drop down DI. So, potentially an alien commander could get DI all the way to the marine base, but it would just take a long time and be more of a game ender situation, rather then being able to start dropping it down in MS right from the start of the game, which is what it sounded like was happening from some of the posts on here. I'll have to double check on how exactly Charlie intends on it working.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can drop DI in MS from the beginning, but since its not connected to any other DI, it goes away after awhile. At most its a temporary annoyance to the marines.
Structure building denial? That sounds like it could be a good strat actually. I've never played starcraft (sue me), but I watched one SC2 replay and the player was preventing his opponent from building a key harvesting structure with a small, fast, scout-type unit by navigating it over where-ever the opponent wanted to build; and this for like a full two minutes. I honestly don't know whether you can replicate that kind of denial with Gorge infestation, or whether it'll always just be a mere annoyance, but it's worth looking into, I think.
I'd like for the dynamic infestation to feel like the active component to an autonomous hive mind. The aliens have a dedicated commander in NS2 for building and giving orders, so the whole hive-community concept isn't as strong as in NS1 at this point. The DI should be an entity of its own will, expanding slowly and constantly, in suitable areas. The commander should not be the master of it, but rather assist it once in a while by choosing a point on existing DI from which to begin rapid infestation, and a direction for it to follow.
<!--quoteo(post=1833994:date=Feb 20 2011, 10:33 PM:name=mokkat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mokkat @ Feb 20 2011, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The commander should not be the master of it, but rather assist it once in a while by choosing a point on existing DI from which to begin rapid infestation, and a direction for it to follow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1833952:date=Feb 20 2011, 02:22 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 20 2011, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833952"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Structure building denial? That sounds like it could be a good strat actually. I've never played starcraft (sue me), but I watched one SC2 replay and the player was preventing his opponent from building a key harvesting structure with a small, fast, scout-type unit by navigating it over where-ever the opponent wanted to build; and this for like a full two minutes. I honestly don't know whether you can replicate that kind of denial with Gorge infestation, or whether it'll always just be a mere annoyance, but it's worth looking into, I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well a marine commander can do an expensive structural denial version by dropping a res node when a drifter is about to take a point. And then recycling.
But with the alien commander cheaply dropping infestation on res or tech points, they can easily deny any sort of marine expansion early on in the game from the safety of their hive.
The consensus seems to be to automate it somewhat by using desired 'pathing'. I think something near this sort of idea is perfect, as placing infestation is satisfying - but when done all the time becomes a little tedious and detracts from other aspects of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1834004:date=Feb 20 2011, 11:55 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 20 2011, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The consensus seems to be to automate it somewhat by using desired 'pathing'. I think something near this sort of idea is perfect, as placing infestation is satisfying - but when done all the time becomes a little tedious and detracts from other aspects of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If we're talking about dedicated alien-commanders, or even commanders that occasionally double as skulk, I find I have plenty of time to place infestation while also tending to the regular commanding-tasks. With the current implementation of DI I would say the workload for alien comms is now in line with that of the marine's. I suppose the problem is, as mentioned before, the alien-comm now has an incredible influence on the game (perhaps even more so than the marine's). So possibly have gorges in the field take some of the responsibility as well, if only to prevent game-breaking situations where the alien-commander is not up to spec.
Comments
<b>- DI spread should be required to start on existing DI</b> (same as SC2 creep spread) or be given a "target" towards which it should slowly (or boosted with energy) spread. It's too easy to just drop it along a path and cover huge ground with it in a couple seconds
- Asymmetry is awesome
- Provides a stronger Gorge role
- You have to actively maintain control over regions
Negatives:
- Hard to tell when DI is connected (solve via color-coding in Alien Vision for Gorges and Alien Comms)
- Spammable in the wrong places (hullo MS)
- Sound can get overpowering
Some ideas:
- Need some way to restrict where DI can be produced. Either via a building and/or the Hives. This will prevent MS spam. So, within a radius you can spawn DI anywhere, but outside you have to extend existing DI.
- Need a cleaner way to detect where DI ends/connects/etc. Gorge Alien Vision and Alien Comm need this.
- Need a cleaner way to manage DI spam over multiple Hives. Pooled DI energy or some such. Not as needed (see NS1 multiple obs spam) but would be appreciated.
Sure a gorge could run in and spew it but not if you're protecting the base. Currently it's just a bunch of infestation growing out of nowhere attacking the marines.
Sure a gorge could run in and spew it but not if you're protecting the base. Currently it's just a bunch of infestation growing out of nowhere attacking the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would actually increase the load on the server, since Gorges can create DI nodes a lot quicker, resulting in over 100 DI patches over the map very quickly.
I would suggest:
1. Allow only commanders to spawn Infestation.
2. Gorges should be able to keep disconnected nodes alive, as well as speed up the growth of each node (as if constructing a building).
3. Display the health, and range of each Infestation node/patch to Gorges (or all aliens) when under the crosshair.
4. Create exlusion zones around each Infestation patch for other DI patches, so they cannot be placed too close to one another.
I'm sick of burning infestation to have more appear magically behind me/under my feet.
Maybe, the DI should have the ability to jam doors and seal openings.
I admit that I do not have enough understanding about how it affects game play yet, but this seems to make sense.
Instead of the commander 'linking up' areas of the map, it should instead automatically path / grow between selected hives and nodes within a hive's infestation radius.
For example:
# You start with your initial hive, this gives access to two RTs within its infestation radius.
# When you send a drifter to build an RT, whilst building the DI grows between the hive and the RT (which would look very cool, like a snake through the level).
# Hives can be built anywhere, which give access to more RTs.
The commander should be able to use the 'infest' button, as well as the Gorge. But perhaps this costs a lot more energy to infest a room completely, and reduces spam.
The <b>GREAT</b> thing about this, is that it does not matter how big or small the map is. It will effectively work in the same way by just linking up RTs within range.
It also means commanders can't spam infestation as much, and the fights would orientate round the res towers instead of the DI itself. So it would only link up once you have taken down an RT and then placed one there.
I think this would be a hell of a lot better tbh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea also, What about DI only able to spread once power nodes are destroyed?
So if theres light in the room it cant spread through it, and the DI can spread into the powernode and act as a "shield" from easily being repaired?
+1
Thats exactly how we envision DI working
...eh...yeah...on another note:
<!--quoteo(post=1833417:date=Feb 19 2011, 12:05 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 19 2011, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Need some way to restrict where DI can be produced. Either via a building and/or the Hives. This will prevent MS spam. So, within a radius you can spawn DI anywhere, but outside you have to extend existing DI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weird, I'm pretty sure dropping DI in the MS at the beginning of a game is not supposed to be happening. As far as I know there is supposed to be a certain range from the Hive that DI can be created within, not just being able to drop it anywhere, so if its not working like that then its probably a bug or it hasn't been fully implemented like that yet.
--Cory
equals moving parts
Yup you're right, mayb I was to early to say what I did. Killing the allien Hive seems to be an effective way of killing the DI...
-Adds a cool layer to gorge
-I found building DI networks fun for the brief time I played... not sure how long that will last!
-Can see its potential as an obstructive type weapon, particularly for dumping on unclaimed rts and tech points. Though it would be cool if there were a few more levels to its use, e.g. you could build up DI also, to make it harder to remove or more obstructive etc.
-
-Hard to identify unconnected DI
-Cumbersome to fill in DI gaps (since you cant seem to drop DI on DI).
-The animation for gorge DI drop looks wrong. Needs to look/feel more like the gorge is placing the DI.
-Aside
-Server I played on really struggled after 5 minutes. Not many hydras or buildings down. A reasonable amount of DI. Whether or not its related.
A bit confusing but I think you get it ;)
That being said DI adds a very nice and interesting aspect to the game that gives us an exponential increase of tactical options, and thats one thing I like ;-)
1.The sounds of it.
2.Gives hope to us
3.Adds atmosphere
<b>Negative</b>
1.The graphics of it
2.Doesn't spread on it's own
3.Gorges DI goes away. It shouldn't be if it is connected to DI that is connected to the Hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1833609:date=Feb 19 2011, 10:05 PM:name=Scribbles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scribbles @ Feb 19 2011, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1833609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does DI work, by the way?
I always thought it was supposed to spread rapidly and was only stopped by rooms with power nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS is how I believe DI should work as a game mechanic. It's that whole idea of territories.
Positive
+ There is now a need for a dedicated commander on the alien side. Before this, you only had to hop in every couple minutes, build a couple buildings, and hop out.
+ The fact that energy is used to spread infestation gives drifters some competition. Drifters are no longer a throw-away unit.
+ Early gorges can restrict the placement of commonly chosen marine extractors, forcing the marines to be more aggressive to compensate for their slower resource flow.
Negative
- It doesn't fit the alien playstyle very well because it encourages consolidation. It actually resembles the original idea for the marine power grid, in that you can cut off the supply chain by attacking key infestation patches.
- It doesn't scale well with map size.
- Gorge DI and commander DI are independent of each other.
1. It can connect to each other through walls.
2. If you accidentally click on a part of the map off of the ground (beam, column, railing, etc.), it builds on that part instead of the ground below.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, wow. That has HUGE gameplay ramifications. For instance, that DI could never bust down doors* far from hives, because DI could never reach that far. For instance, the east door of Tram Marine start. Aliens won't be able to forward-build Crags anymore in the end-game, making it harder to wipe out the last marine base. Ditto for Bombard*, and Shift*.
*when that feature is added
If the DI is going to be Hive-range limited, are Aliens going to get some kind of DI-extension unit/upgrade in mid-game/late-game? Otherwise it will be really hard to close out games.
• It slows down the otherwise instant alien expansion to all hives and rts that was occurring in prior patches.
• The clearing of DI gives marines a chance to prevent gorges from spamming hydra in conquered territory.
• Can't wait for 3D geometry-generating DI that covers the lights!
Negatives:
• Flamethrower is very ineffective at clearing DI which makes the task very frustrating (and the quickly regrowing DI is making the act of keeping marine start clear a futile effort). I run out of fuel almost a minute after leaving the armory! The reason is approximately 1 bottle of fuel is required to clear 1 patch of DI, which means either the max ammo of the FT and/or the damage needs serious buffing.
• Marine-start is being blanketed in infestation. If this happens before FT, then the marine ability to build structures in base can be severely impaired.
• GL has no effect on DI (or its just impossibly hard to hit the DI weak-spot with a bouncing+delayed grenade), and turrets seem to lock onto DI, and fire non-stop, with no effect.
*when that feature is added
If the DI is going to be Hive-range limited, are Aliens going to get some kind of DI-extension unit/upgrade in mid-game/late-game? Otherwise it will be really hard to close out games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I guess I didn't mean that you can never build DI outside of the Hive range. I just had thought that there was a starting range for creating it, and that DI had to be expanded outward from the hives, within range of the hive or within range of other newly constructed DI. Rather then the commander just being able to click anywhere on the map and drop down DI. So, potentially an alien commander could get DI all the way to the marine base, but it would just take a long time and be more of a game ender situation, rather then being able to start dropping it down in MS right from the start of the game, which is what it sounded like was happening from some of the posts on here. I'll have to double check on how exactly Charlie intends on it working.
--Cory
Btw, it feels sort of weird having an entire patch disappear when a node is killed. Will it be changed so that the node acts if it was disconnected from a Hive when on fire, and recede instead of outright disappearing?
The structure's regeneration and growth should only be affected.
So a commander could have a drifter place a whip or res tower somewhere without infestation, and have a gorge finish developing it. (Either by dropping infestation or with the use key.)
When the infestation goes away the alien structure's ability to slowly regenerate by itself will be disabled. (Going with the regenerating health on infestation theme.)
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can drop DI in MS from the beginning, but since its not connected to any other DI, it goes away after awhile. At most its a temporary annoyance to the marines.
The DI should be an entity of its own will, expanding slowly and constantly, in suitable areas. The commander should not be the master of it, but rather assist it once in a while by choosing a point on existing DI from which to begin rapid infestation, and a direction for it to follow.
This is what I want.
+1
Well a marine commander can do an expensive structural denial version by dropping a res node when a drifter is about to take a point. And then recycling.
But with the alien commander cheaply dropping infestation on res or tech points, they can easily deny any sort of marine expansion early on in the game from the safety of their hive.
If we're talking about dedicated alien-commanders, or even commanders that occasionally double as skulk, I find I have plenty of time to place infestation while also tending to the regular commanding-tasks. With the current implementation of DI I would say the workload for alien comms is now in line with that of the marine's. I suppose the problem is, as mentioned before, the alien-comm now has an incredible influence on the game (perhaps even more so than the marine's). So possibly have gorges in the field take some of the responsibility as well, if only to prevent game-breaking situations where the alien-commander is not up to spec.