Why doesnt the grenade launcher explode on impact.
louis cardinal
Join Date: 2010-12-14 Member: 75664Members
Join Date: 2010-12-14 Member: 75664Members
<div class="IPBDescription">why?</div>every FPS that has a grenade launcher that i have played so far allows direct hits to explode.
i think this is necessary.
and i feel the grenade launcher is still a bit funny, its like the nades are in low gravity or something :D
what do you guys think? exploding on hit?
(apologies if implementing this was already intended and i wasted time asking)
i think this is necessary.
and i feel the grenade launcher is still a bit funny, its like the nades are in low gravity or something :D
what do you guys think? exploding on hit?
(apologies if implementing this was already intended and i wasted time asking)
Comments
if it doesn't - then it really has to, unless its meant as an anti structure weapon only.
PS i really miss the old 4 chamber revolver GL
As it functions.. it explodes if you HIT your target.... +1 to skill cap. For the sake of this game it works better how it is currently implemented
Can gorges eat bouncing grenades? why not?
I would actually like the ability to control when it detonates. Sometimes, I would rather have it detonate on first impact, even if it doesn't hit an enemy unit/structure.
If it was up to me this is how the game would be:
1. The new GL:
Splode on impact (say goodbye to bouncing-back-at-you grenades) + really long range with no perceivable projectile drop in close quarters, like so: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlFwNU-qUKo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlFwNU-qUKo</a>. The idea being that maps will be getting much larger rooms, and the current arc just seems like it was scaled down for RockDown.
Also the GL could use different ammo types, but for now we'll keep it simple where the default ammo is fragmentation. The idea is the alien structures are like vegetation, so the GL should not be effective against structures (the exception could be that direct hits can hurt structures with this ammo). By having fragmentation ammo we can wound lots of alien-players in a room (not necessarily kill them), which will basically leave the structures 100% health.
2. Reduce shotgun damage against structures. Reason being its shooting buckshot and last time i check, you wouldn't chop down a tree with a shotgun, so it's safe to say killing RT's with a shotgun looks ridiculous (and may not even be obvious to new players. I mean a shotgun is supposed to only be good at killing players). But perhaps we can leave in the anti-hive damage since a hive seems fleshy (unlike hydra, whips, crags, RT's, etc). I believe this change also compliments the slow res-flow that aliens get from RT's (with reference to how an early game shotgunner can totally destroy the alien teams RT's).
So where does this leave the shotgun? Well the purpose of the GL+frag ammo is to wound aliens to make them easier to kill with bullets, and the purpose of the shotgun will be to cause a lot of instant damage to the one alien in front of you. In a sense the GL seems more like a anti-area support weapon, in the sense that it's helping the marine TEAM (whose currently in that room) to kill the aliens more effectively. [sorry i don't subscribe to the forum definition of "support weapon/support tool" to mean "only hurts non-players]
3. flamethrower will be given a anti-structure damage boost since it currently is a bit ###### at it's intended role. I mean 1 bottle of fuel destroys 1 little patch of DI currently. Also it appears the FT seems far too nerfed against alien structures in general (the damage per second is negligible currently).
I also think the Alien players + hive (or maybe just hive with an alien com inside) could use some basic fire-retardant protection. I mean increase the amount of time they need to be exposed to direct fire before they ignite/start-taking-damage. And perhaps a fire-proofing upgrade for alien players can be unlocked.
Yes the grenade launcher acts this way in real life, and in numerous other video games but lets think about this, Call of Duty is a widely known FPS shooter so i'll use it as an example, everyone has guns, and fights other people with guns, not ranged vs melee combat, grenade shot deals massive damage in an incredibly short amount of time, therefor you see a person cross a corner infront of you, shoot in their general direction, guaranteed kill. They dont have the ability to fight back ,they just drop dead. In Call of duty this is balanced out somewhat being that you can only carry 2 shots, the person you killed would respawn in less than 3 seconds (usually instantly if you skip the kill cam) and your opponents have the same option to possess the same weapon you do. Hell even in Call of Duty Black ops they realized there was a serious issue with grenade launchers in all the previous titles and first, had to make it so it was not possible to resupply your grenade launcher shots without dying, and made the default primary perk Flak jacket, which made you immune to grenade launcher shots.
--Scythe--
It confuses me why the devs have made most of the marine weapons 'easy mode' (at least to begin with) - such high damage: the previously high flamethrower output with its ridiculous cone of fire, the really high shotgun damage-per-pellet with its ridiculous spread; only the rifle hasn't been too strong ever, but even then, the cone of fire used to be a bit too large, as if you were expecting a player's aim to be terribly off. The rifle is good now though. The flamethrower is in general rather bland. The shotgun could do with improvements, and I've given some ideas on these in the past.
Also, the reduced speed of everything in the game...
Definitely looking forward to the major balance changes after the bigger performance improvements, to make it more fast-paced. There are any number of slower, deliberate, realism shooters, NS should be better than that.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was more due to the high damage and no self-damage. If a fade attacked, all you needed to do was aim at your feet and fire. Instanta-dead fade.
Sure, depends on the layout of vents but currently you can clear some of them with grenades, if you are able to get the grenade in (which is very hard to do with the current behaviour)
Agreed. The damage was set to insanely high levels and the reason is likely because the devs didn't put any time at all towards balancing it (i mean it was NEW back then... they probably just finished implementing/debugging it and that patch was the public functionality test). But imho the devs were wrong to remove explode-on-impact based on community response to a WIP/TEST damage level that was set to insanely high insta-kill everything in the room including fades, <u>and no damage to the user</u>, at the click of the mouse.
The limited ammo (to prevent spamming), single-shot with lengthy reload (to prevent spamming), friendly fire (to prevent close range noob-toobing), and blocked till L2 CC (to give alien team enough time to unlock higher lifeforms) are clearly in place to balance an explode-on-impact <u>weapon</u>. We can even add to the list that the damage has been severely nerfed (when compared to that early unbalanced functionality test). And, ironically, by having explode-on-impact we could further reduce the mild spamming we are seeing now because the weapon would be easier-to-use/accurate, and that means a lot LESS bouncing-missing-random-collateral-damage shots while the marine is trying to kill a random <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_target" target="_blank">point target</a>. Also who can argue with less people using FT, and more of a even distribution of people using shotguns and rifle/GL.
<!--quoteo(post=1835493:date=Mar 1 2011, 06:04 AM:name=gorge.ous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gorge.ous @ Mar 1 2011, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With grenades on impact you would be unable to get skulks/whatever in vents.
Sure, depends on the layout of vents but currently you can clear some of them with grenades, if you are able to get the grenade in (which is very hard to do with the current behaviour)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>How about this:</b>
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->If the grenade hits a surface very close to the marine then the grenade bounces + delayed detonation, otherwise if the shot is longer range then it will explode on impact. Not only does it prevent people from walking around with the GL at the ready, but we still get explode on impact when we need it most (i.e. longer range shooting) :P<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Having it explode on impact (I think it was like this in a previous patch) makes it completely overpowered. You can easily one shot skulks and other alien lifeforms.
The great thing about it now, is it is one of those kind of support weapons. So you have to sit back from the action and bounce grenades off walls, rather than be stuck into the action.
You can also fire it into walls when running away, and sometimes get a lucky kill.
The only problem is that I don't get its purpose at the moment, along with the flamethrower. I like to know what weapons are effective against certain situations, and vice versa.
I was in favour of having flame thrower a more anti structure option researchable in tier 1, but the more I think about it, perhaps the grenade launcher should be in that role with the shotguns effectiveness against structures reduced.
Tier 1:
Axe
Pistol
LMG - General Assault
Shotgun - Anti Lifeform
GL - Anti Structure
Tier 2:
Flamethrower - Anti DI/Lifeform (all round push weapon)
ARC - Anti Structure
Tier 3:
EXO - Anti everything
Also, I can think of plenty of games that don't have the grenades explode on impact. Granted, most of them are before consoles took over so vastly. Interpret that how you will.
Aside from some genuine issues with the grenade (seems to launch from the rifle barrel rather than the GL attachments, does seem like it is floating through the air rather than being truly "launched", the spawn location for the grenade does not seem centered so the grenade can often hit things to the side of where you are aiming if you are close making vent shooting very frustrating etc), the grenade launcher is perfect as it is.
Should have just mounted it underneath or something.
Should have just mounted it underneath or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Positioning and layout of the GL never made much sense imho. looks far to flimsy and like it could break any second falling of the rifle.
About explosions on impact; I cannot decide. We had just the bounce + timer in NS1 right? It made it more of a support tool to scare aliens away from rushing into the base keeping up a regular explosion field down the corridors. Explosion on impact would work if the damage is balanced to be much less..
I see it being used in 2 different scenarios, support or offence with the mechanics changed accordingly.
Its a tactical weapon rather than a slower Shotgun, ie you cant try 1 shot most Aliens with a GL by firing it at the target directly.
I found it usefull for nabbing lazy Lerks who like to pop out of cover and shoot a fews spikes / spores off, I fire a grenade to where the Lerks cover is then shoot a burst at the Lerk, often the Lerk takes some damage pops into cover and boom...eats a nade :P
Exploding on impact encourages using the weapon as a different type of shotgun, instead of as a unique weapon.
Should have just mounted it underneath or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe the grenades are intended to be rocket powered. This would make their launch from the weapon a recoilless event. It would also make sense if the weapon was intended to be used in zero gravity.
Hmm rocket powered grenades... funny i would expect a somewhat flat trajectory, instant arrival on target, and explode-on-impact response from firing a rpg.
Should have just mounted it underneath or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nanites.
Having it on the left makes it visible, allows a good location for the ammo display, and actually makes it look different from the standard not-m203 which every other game in the world uses.
I think they were trying to figure out how to show the user the ammo readout. Naturally they should of just shown that information in the same window where they indicate the bullets.
An under the barrel thing could work... just make the thing reload like the M320. Or you know the GL could just be integrated into the weapon by default. Balance it out with "researching grenades" to allow the armory to give you GL ammo or something. The only thing is the barrel area of the weapon is really really bulky, so an underside GL attachment would make the front of the weapons height like 1 ft tall. Integrated would make it look more streamlined and less like a baked-potato. We could also get rid of those tiny attachment rails since we won't be needing them.
Here this will cheer you up :P <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5q5WnhjNMg&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5q5WnhjNMg...feature=related</a>
Also, I can think of plenty of games that don't have the grenades explode on impact. Granted, most of them are before consoles took over so vastly. Interpret that how you will.
Aside from some genuine issues with the grenade (seems to launch from the rifle barrel rather than the GL attachments, does seem like it is floating through the air rather than being truly "launched", the spawn location for the grenade does not seem centered so the grenade can often hit things to the side of where you are aiming if you are close making vent shooting very frustrating etc), the grenade launcher is perfect as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not a Rocket Propelled Grenade because its not rocket propelled and aside from the fact that RPG's have shaped charges and standard 40mm is a high explosive round, why would they not detonate on impact?
NS1 didnt detonate on impact and i dont remember people problems with that
Agreed with the animation being stuffed though
<!--quoteo(post=1835531:date=Mar 2 2011, 09:18 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Mar 2 2011, 09:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe the grenades are intended to be rocket powered. This would make their launch from the weapon a recoilless event. It would also make sense if the weapon was intended to be used in zero gravity.
Hmm rocket powered grenades... funny i would expect a somewhat flat trajectory, instant arrival on target, and explode-on-impact response from firing a rpg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except you dont stand behind a recoiless weapon (check youtube video of iranian guy taking out his mate with an rpg), looking at the size of the launcher and projectile the rocket motor would be pretty small hence the arc and slower travel time.
I'd vote for underbarrel with little flashy lights on the side of the rifle to show how much ammo you have.
Genius.