Computer buying thread #3257

A_Boojum_SnarkA_Boojum_Snark Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
<div class="IPBDescription">want some more eyes to look at this.</div>So it's finally time for me to get something that can run new games (Portal 2 being the tipping point for me), and while I think I know my stuff, it's been years since I've really paid attention to hardware and I've tried to catch up on everything over the past month. So I thought I'd come to you knowledgeable folks to see if I'd overlooked some compatibility aspect or committed some foolish faux-pas.

Here's what I'm looking to get: <a href="http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=23129808" target="_blank">http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWi...Number=23129808</a>

I've never been really interested in overclocking, so I wanted to save a few bucks with the i5-2400 instead of the 2500K, and I've read it's stock cooler is more than sufficient for such.

Don't really want to spend more than $200 on the GPU, so the 460 seemed to fit the bill, and from what I've read handles everything fine. The 500 series Ti cards are cheaper, but it seems most of their specs are lower, unless I'm missing something else about that series and Ti isn't just a low-end version of cards.

Comments

  • SopsSops Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17894Members, Constellation
    The GTX 460 is a good card, I am able to play Crysis 2 at 1920x1200 and "hardcore" settings just fine. But the Intels are over priced in my opinion.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Basically you're way overbuying the CPU for that build. You could get away with a cheaper i5 or even a solid AMD quad core for way less. Plus it forces up your mobo cost as well.

    Otherwise everything else looks decent assuming you're not building for overclocking / upgrades in a year.

    Also, you're right. The 560Ti is their budget card of the 500 series. However, it does get to take advantage of their improvements for the next generation of cards, which means more bang per power consumption.

    I recommend perusing these links for help as well:
    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html</a>
    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-recommended-processor,2895.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-g...essor,2895.html</a>
    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/theme-build-your-own,156.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/theme-build-your-own,156.html</a>
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2011
    Heh I remember way back when TI was actually the improved version, back in the day of Geforce 3 (slower to faster: TI200, original and TI500) and something similar for the Geforce 4 :D
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Good build.

    Don't go with a stock CPU cooler though.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    My E8400 currently runs with the stock cooler. Idles at 35, 60 at maximum load with Prime95. Well within Intel's specs. Look at what the internet says about your processor - if it runs fine with the stock cooler at rated clock, don't waste time and money on a different one.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839796:date=Apr 4 2011, 12:11 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Apr 4 2011, 12:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My E8400 currently runs with the stock cooler. Idles at 35, 60 at maximum load with Prime95. Well within Intel's specs. Look at what the internet says about your processor - if it runs fine with the stock cooler at rated clock, don't waste time and money on a different one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Unless you're overclocking.

    But yeah, non-stock coolers typically are more hassle for a few degree drop and especially Intel stock coolers are ALWAYS more powerful than you need. Heck, I've overclocked a couple extra hundred MHz on Intel stocks before. I would just never pump up the voltages.
  • SvenpaSvenpa Wait, what? Join Date: 2004-01-03 Member: 25012Members, Constellation
    I got an i5 with 2,66 ghz stock frequency but I managed to push that to 3,9 ghz @ 45c idle by using a non-stock cooler (all fans are also set to ultra quiet). I'm not good at OCing and it felt like hell trying to stabilize it but I imagine a proper guide or person could make it tons easier. It was worth it at the end though, just something to consider.

    I really hated my old computer before I switched the stock fan (a stock 3,6ghz p4) because of the immense noise it made when revving up. So if not for OC, you might want to consider it just to keep noise levels down.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839813:date=Apr 4 2011, 01:23 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Apr 4 2011, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got an i5 with 2,66 ghz stock frequency but I managed to push that to 3,9 ghz @ 45c idle by using a non-stock cooler (all fans are also set to ultra quiet). I'm not good at OCing and it felt like hell trying to stabilize it but I imagine a proper guide or person could make it tons easier. It was worth it at the end though, just something to consider.

    I really hated my old computer before I switched the stock fan (a stock 3,6ghz p4) because of the immense noise it made when revving up. So if not for OC, you might want to consider it just to keep noise levels down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    daaaaaaaaang.

    Also, I will note that newer stocks are pretty quiet, but yes Svenpa is right you can get quieter if you want on a non-stock.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    edited April 2011
    There's also the option of varying the fan speed. For instance, my CPU fan is a little noisy at full speed, but when the CPU is idle half speed is more than enough to keep it cool. I've set speedfan to increase the fan speed if temperature rises past 42 degrees, which it usually only does when I'm gaming. Since I wear headphones for nearly all my gaming I can't hear the fan anyway. And it's not like a quiet CPU fan would make that big a difference once the GPU fan spools up.
  • A_Boojum_SnarkA_Boojum_Snark Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839788:date=Apr 4 2011, 12:26 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Apr 4 2011, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically you're way overbuying the CPU for that build. You could get away with a cheaper i5 or even a solid AMD quad core for way less. Plus it forces up your mobo cost as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I take it you mean it's more than I need for gaming with the rest of the stuff I have? I felt I wanted to dump a little more into the CPU because I do deal in some more CPU-heavy things outside gaming. Notably compiling Source engine maps and the occasional video editing.
    I was a bit dismayed that the cost hadn't fallen for Intel's lineup as much as I figured it would by now, though that isn't helped by the fact Sandy Bridge has just launched, but I have liked what I've read about it. Or am I being foolish?
    Though in particular the <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-efficienct-32-nm,2831.html" target="_blank">power consumption</a> is appealing to me.


    As for the cooler, if it isn't sufficient it is simple enough to buy one at a later point. Nothing lost there since I'm stuck with "buying" the stock cooler anyway. I have a feeling anything will be quieter than the god-awful fans in the system I currently have that decide to make ugly noises for a week every couple months. They're also much smaller than the current-gen standard seems to be, which I assume means louder from more RPM.

    Overall, thanks for the replies. My last system purchase was way back for HL2... I'm awfully hesitant about this stuff so anything helps.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2011
    If you take an intel, and plan to overclock you need to take a K version. (like the i5 2500k + a motherboard with the P67)

    The other models are not really overclockable, since everything with this new generation comes down to the multi(muulti is locked for non K), and not to bclk (~fsb)
    The i5 2500k goes easily to 4-4,5ghz even with stock coolers

    If you dont plan to overclock take a normal version with a cheaper H67 motherboard. ( H67 can also utilize the internal gpu of the cpu, as a fallback if your gfx card dies e.g.)

    But since the OC potentials are so great, i dont recomment taking a non K version.

    To sum it up:
    K version needs P67 => enthusiast
    non K needs H67 => office

    If you really need so much power, is another question... BUT,
    The Problem is, investing money into an AMD system(CPU+MB) isnt really wise atm - the next generation cpu("bulldozer") is comming out soon, and requires a new socket AM3+ - so you would have to wait a little bit, buy a board (which will come quite some time earlier than the cpus) build in a current generation one - and if bulldozer comes out with a reasonable price/power ratio - you could sell and replace it.

    Boards are already listed at some pages <a href="http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=10&p=2&v=26" target="_blank">http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx...mp;p=2&v=26</a> - but i dont know when they ll be available in stores...

    If raw power of bulldozer gets comparable or even higher than the Intel sandy bridge ones, you wont get out cheaper.


    If you dont care of having a state of the art cpu or the option to upgrade to a newer generation without replacing the motherboard too, i reccomend you buying a current generation AMD cpu (x4 or x6) and put the saved money into a better gpu -because in the end GPU > CPU for gaming. (most of the time)

    PS: since everything now goes via multi @ intel*, you can take the cheapest brand 1333mhz ddr3 ram you can find - high timings or clock doesnt give anything mentionalbe for the higher cost. (you cant feel any difference only mesaure it with benchmarks - and even then, as i said nothing to mention)

    *OC via bclk (or fsb in the older days) required higher ram clocks - multi doesnt care, and is so easy to overclock - a monkey could do it.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    As far as the CPU cooler goes, I can never recommend a stock cooler... Intel or AMD. Stock is designed to cope (mostly) with the expected heat ranges. If the environment is hotter than anticipated by the manufacturer, either it will spin up higher (ie: be loud) or just overheat like crazy. It's also a PAIN to put on an aftermarket cooler after using a stock for a while... the paraffin pad on most stock coolers will sink into any micro-gaps, and you have to get all that off again if you're using a different type of thermal paste.

    That said, I can't speak highly enough for the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus. It's on the large side, yes... but match it with a pair of anti-noise 120mm fans, then set them to run at minimum speed by default. Took a CPU (AMD AthII x4) suffering at 60-70C idle temps under full throttle on the stock cooler to 23C idle... never going over 35C with every core running independently at 100% utilization. And cranking up from 800rpm to the 'stock' speed of 2000rpm brought that down to 27C.

    Grabbed a second for my Core i7 workstation right afterward, and saw similar results, and made the loudest part the hard drives.
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    Don't listen to those rev-heads. I have a stock CPU HSF on my E8600 and it regularly tops 38 degrees celcius in my room, CPU hums along just fine. The days of godawful stock cooling systems is more or less over. Put some decent thermal goop in there, keep it clean and you're set.

    --Scythe--
  • SvenpaSvenpa Wait, what? Join Date: 2004-01-03 Member: 25012Members, Constellation
    This might be related but it seems to only mention laptops and not desktops.

    <a href="http://lifehacker.com/#!5440376/best-time-to-buythe-best-times-to-buy-anything-all-year-round" target="_blank">http://lifehacker.com/#!5440376/best-t...-all-year-round</a>

    <img src="http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/17/2010/01/final.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Kind off country specific ain't it
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    edited April 2011
    Personally I would add a small (60GB) SSD to that setup, the speed compared to HDD is worth it.

    I think you can go with a way lower spec PSU, 650W is not needed.
    I don't know the exact maximum power use of that setup but it isn't going to be around 500-600W.
    Well, unless you're going to overclock.

    CPU: <a href="http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52209" target="_blank">Max TDP 95 W</a>
    GFX: <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-460-us.html" target="_blank">Maximum Graphics Card Power (W) 160 W</a>
    Now sure how much to add for the rest? hdd, ssd, optical drive, fans, say 100W total?
    So you're around 400W
    This is just an estimate, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    I also concur about the stock CPU cooler, all I read is that they do their job poorly and wear out quickly, start making noise.
  • A_Boojum_SnarkA_Boojum_Snark Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
    I wasn't sure about the power, I tried doing some adding up like that as well, but for some reason everyone always says higher than it seems. I wasn't sure if I was missing something. However it seems that PSU just went up $30 overnight, so I guess I'll be looking for another one anyway... meh.

    The H67 motherboards that have the other stuff I want (esata and 6GB sata in particular) aren't all that much cheaper than the P67 ones, and they're mostly micro boards. The full size ones are even closer in price.
    I'm not interested in overclocking or the integrated graphics, but Intel went with the stupid move of putting the better graphics core (12 units instead of 6) on the K processors. So if you want to overclock OR use the graphics, you'll want the top chip to get the most out of it either way. But then each requires a unique chipset, or while you are forced to buy the best of both or the worse of both, you can only ever use one or none.
  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839793:date=Apr 4 2011, 01:58 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Apr 4 2011, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good build.

    Don't go with a stock CPU cooler though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, how dare you use something the engineers at Intel build specifically for that piece of hardware.

    >.>
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2011
    Stock coolers are good enough, Brand coolers are just upping the RPM for potential OCing. But aren't these new "i" cores running less hot then the oldschool Yorkfield, Kentsfield, Wolfdale and Conroe cores?

    Yorkfield still kicks some mighty butt though! (no so much in terms of upgradability though :P)
  • SopsSops Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17894Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1839891:date=Apr 5 2011, 10:45 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Apr 5 2011, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I would add a small (60GB) SSD to that setup, the speed compared to HDD is worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Eh, $2+/GB, I'd wait for prices to get closer to $1/GB but maybe I am just cheap.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1839895:date=Apr 5 2011, 04:25 PM:name=Drfuzzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drfuzzy @ Apr 5 2011, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, how dare you use something the engineers at Intel build specifically for that piece of hardware.

    >.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's stupidly loud and places the fan on the top which makes airflow awful.

    I like as dust free a case as possible, as quiet a computer as possible, as long a life out of a chip as possible.

    Oh and I never buy Intel, I go for hotter AMD chips =D
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    edited April 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1839913:date=Apr 5 2011, 12:09 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Apr 5 2011, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eh, $2+/GB, I'd wait for prices to get closer to $1/GB but maybe I am just cheap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    On SSDs, as someone who has one, I have a few thoughts.
    1) Damn I boot fast!!!
    2) It took an entire afternoon to make sure I configured everything properly so that ProgramData and Users weren't on the C: drive anymore so they wouldn't get filled up and screw with the SSD drive. Granted, this might not apply to you since I have only 40GB and thus was a touch paranoid.
    So, they are awesome, but be warned you probably will have to do some finagling during your OS install. And Windows is a little touchy about you moving those folders. Still, with the help of Google, I've survived and haven't had a problem yet.

    In terms of power, 650W _might_ suffice. What's actually more important is how many amps you can get on a dedicated 12V rail for you graphics card. I believe the 400 series can 2 12V rails, same as the 500 series. So, add up the amps available on two rails and see if you're over what your card wants with a safety margin. Or you can go with a single rail PSU instead if you're worried about slight deviations between the two 12V rails. However, a good 650W PSU should do just fine with your build.

    You should also check what combo deals you can snag on Newegg. Often times there's good case+psu deals.

    <!--quoteo(post=1839857:date=Apr 4 2011, 07:51 PM:name=A_Boojum_Snark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (A_Boojum_Snark @ Apr 4 2011, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I take it you mean it's more than I need for gaming with the rest of the stuff I have? I felt I wanted to dump a little more into the CPU because I do deal in some more CPU-heavy things outside gaming. Notably compiling Source engine maps and the occasional video editing.
    I was a bit dismayed that the cost hadn't fallen for Intel's lineup as much as I figured it would by now, though that isn't helped by the fact Sandy Bridge has just launched, but I have liked what I've read about it. Or am I being foolish?
    Though in particular the <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-efficienct-32-nm,2831.html" target="_blank">power consumption</a> is appealing to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah. Getting a SnadyBridge seemed like a bit overkill for a generic build, but if you're doing some CPU heavy stuff it's a good buy. And from what you've mentioned, it should be worth it.

    As already mentioned, if you want overclocking, invest in a K version. Otherwise, a standard non-K version will suffice imo. I personally avoid overclocking to ensure everything lasts 4+ years, but they've made it pretty darn easy these days to squeeze out more computational power these days.
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