Shotgun Melee (buttstock) attack

shanghaining

<div class="IPBDescription">why not?</div>Hi guys,

I'm not sure if this discussion has been brought up before or not, but will shotguns be able to have melee attack just like the rifles? I mean...it would make sense if shotguns can be used as a melee weapon too...is that something the developers is considering?

Just a thought.

Thank you

KuBaN

Last I heard, the secondary fire for shotguns was going to be flechette rounds (shells that ricochet).

Align

I thought that was the variable ammo idea that was discarded (or at least temporarily put aside)?

KuBaN

Could be, I just got here.

FocusedWolf

ya i prefer bouncing buckshot of death over a buttstock melee attack that i will <u>never</u> use.

shanghaining

I think shotgun should have secondary attack (sorta like how the pistols are) AND there should be a melee attack with mouse 3 or something.

Ironsoul

shotgun needs melee attack. I find the rifle to be more useful sometimes due to that melee attack... Did I mention i bashed a fade to death with that thing?

KuBaN

It's a good thing to have the rifle preferred in some situations. Keeps it from being completely obsolete.

SN.Wolf

<!--quoteo(post=1841633:date=Apr 19 2011, 08:16 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Apr 19 2011, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a good thing to have the rifle preferred in some situations. Keeps it from being completely obsolete.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Spawn guns are meant to be discarded. It's encouragement to push for upgrades.

The shotgun does seem more fitted for it than the rifle by means of stereo-typing, It's the biggest craze....all the rednecks are doing it!
Or.....could change the whole idea of what a gun-butt attack is. How about a stun effect by means of electricity like getting hit with a cattle prod, not that i have been zapped with one but a cows face kinda says it hurts like h e l l.

KuBaN

<!--quoteo(post=1841636:date=Apr 19 2011, 11:50 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Apr 19 2011, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spawn guns are meant to be discarded. It's encouragement to push for upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. Maybe in a pure FPS, but this is not one. Weapons/Equipment, and Lifeforms/Evolutions provide you with different roles. In strategic games a wider variety of units provides you with <i> functions</i>, not <i>better</i> ones.

Especially considering the team's minimalist design choices/philosophy, they're going to want to squeeze as much as they can out of each asset.

Dank McShwagger

maybe a concentrated attack with a long cooldown that fires all the rounds in the shotgun in one blast... something researchable around the same time as the onos?

also, this should probably be moved to I&S

Harimau

Shotgun is superior at close range, use the left mouse button.

Squeal_Like_A_Pig

We are still planning on having a secondary attack that may be flechettes, or something to that effect. We try to avoid overlap and redundancies when it comes to abilities, weapons, etc. Its more interesting to have to make the choice of weapon, when there are more tradeoffs associated with it. Shotguns are meant to be more powerful against skulks, but if you lose the melee ability, especially when its beefed up with the ability to deflect skulks when they are leaping that we are planning on implementing, then it gives more reason to stay with the rifle. On top of that, since we do have a limited number of weapons we want to make sure that we can make them as diverse as possible, and its a lot easier to add unique secondary attacks then it is to add a whole new weapon class.

--Cory

ASnogarD

I am curious as to all this desire to increase the Marine MELEE ability, from my understanding range is the Marines domain and melee is the Aliens playground ... this deflect when riflebutted idea punishes a Skulk for getting close to the Marine , firt the Skulk must deal with the bullets and then even when in melee range the Skulk can be simply slapped away.
Its pretty hard to re-aquire a target as a Skulk after the initial bite, especially if your hopping about to avoid incoming fire so a deflect will make it so much harder to re-aquire your target.

... if your going to beef up the Marines melee , then how will you compensate the Skulk ? Allowing it to spit back bullets from hits it survived ? Increase Parasites damage tenfold to give the Skulk a ranged offence ?

The Aliens ranged option , the Lerk has no melee attacks at all ... whereas every Marine has a switchax to fall back on, even if it is a bad option.

Short version: Marines are king at range, why beef up the melee as well ? Where is the Alien range dominance ?

KuBaN

I think you're exaggerating things there quite a bit. This doesn't give Marine's "melee dominance". It only works if you time it right while facing the skulk AS he's leaping. Doesn't knock back under any other circumstances. The rifle-butt knockback was made to balance the fact that Skulks were getting Running Leap from the start.

ASnogarD

As players master the timing its going to be insanely hard to successfully use leap at a competant Marine, and as not leaping at a competant Marine will most likely result in the Skulk getting filled with lead... it offers a serious advantage.

At least test to ensure the swing is not spammable, so it does require good timing and not just button mashing.

KuBaN

Right-click at the right time to Leap on a Marine. Researched by default.
Right-click at the right time to hit a Skulk. Researched by default.
Where's the "serious advantage" offered to either side?

It will definitely need to be balanced. Goes without saying.

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1841700:date=Apr 20 2011, 12:45 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 20 2011, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shotgun is superior at close range, use the left mouse button.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

this.

Align

<!--quoteo(post=1841734:date=Apr 20 2011, 11:35 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Apr 20 2011, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As players master the timing its going to be insanely hard to successfully use leap at a competant Marine, and as not leaping at a competant Marine will most likely result in the Skulk getting filled with lead... it offers a serious advantage.

At least test to ensure the swing is not spammable, so it does require good timing and not just button mashing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks can adapt by making sure their leaps land on any surface near the marine, rather than flying past him and tearing a chunk out as you go by. I will miss it, but can manage.

ScardyBob

Its really hard to gauge marine v skulk dynamics right now due to the lag and small skulk hitbox. In the current build a melee-butt shotgun alt fire would be useful because I regularly miss skulks when the server tick rate drops. However, I think as the lag decreases, hitreg will improve enough where a melee is not needed in conjunction with a one-shot kill shotgun for skulks.

jkflipflop

I think the more important question here is why would you ever melee with a shotgun instead of pulling the trigger?

FocusedWolf

<!--quoteo(post=1841750:date=Apr 20 2011, 09:25 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ Apr 20 2011, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the more important question here is why would you ever melee with a shotgun instead of pulling the trigger?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Indeed. Additionally the rifles alt-fire should be reconsidered because no one uses melee, not when a skulk can basically insta-kill.

Maybe the rifle can get a toggleable super bright flashlight or laser sight or zoom/scope ability... give the crazy melee ability to the heavies claw or fist ability so we can deflect oni rushes or something xD

marsvin

<!--quoteo(post=1841739:date=Apr 21 2011, 01:34 AM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Apr 21 2011, 01:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right-click at the right time to Leap on a Marine. Researched by default.
Right-click at the right time to hit a Skulk. Researched by default.
Where's the "serious advantage" offered to either side?

It will definitely need to be balanced. Goes without saying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not saying this definitely wouldn't work but if we're giving marines the added ability to counter leaps, what does the skulk get in return? Considering leap is more or less the main ability that makes skulks viable in mid to late game in the original NS.

Kouji_San

Fanchette is something like the Flak UT weapon I assume, or at least work similar to it?

<img src="http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetunreal.gamespy.com/images/oldsite/clusterimages/flak.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

FocusedWolf

<!--quoteo(post=1841803:date=Apr 21 2011, 01:41 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Apr 21 2011, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fanchette is something like the Flak UT weapon I assume, or at least work similar to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

From what i remember, the alt fire of the shotgun resulted in a blast of bouncing projectiles that could bounce all over the place (including around corners). Would be the ultimate vent clearer no doubt. Something tells me the GL could use some of this loving.

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1841801:date=Apr 21 2011, 12:29 PM:name=marsvin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marsvin @ Apr 21 2011, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841801"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not saying this definitely wouldn't work but if we're giving marines the added ability to counter leaps, what does the skulk get in return? Considering leap is more or less the main ability that makes skulks viable in mid to late game in the original NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

parasite.

Cerebral

<!--quoteo(post=1841803:date=Apr 21 2011, 12:41 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Apr 21 2011, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fanchette is something like the Flak UT weapon I assume, or at least work similar to it?

<img src="http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetunreal.gamespy.com/images/oldsite/clusterimages/flak.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This would be awesome. God I loved that gun in UT.

luns

i always thought once the marine runs out of ammo, he can use this weapon as a bat. I mean, wouldn't you do the same? its pretty realistic idea.

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1841827:date=Apr 21 2011, 08:35 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Apr 21 2011, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i always thought once the marine runs out of ammo, he can use this weapon as a bat. I mean, wouldn't you do the same? its pretty realistic idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the TSA marines have an Axe, to axe a lot of questions...

luns

<!--quoteo(post=1841834:date=Apr 21 2011, 09:20 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Apr 21 2011, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because the TSA marines have an Axe, to axe a lot of questions...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

great idea, why not make axe attachment to the shotgun? the marine could possibly use this weapon as a spear?

shanghaining

<!--quoteo(post=1841750:date=Apr 21 2011, 01:25 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ Apr 21 2011, 01:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the more important question here is why would you ever melee with a shotgun instead of pulling the trigger?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


call me a noob but often time I due to lag I would run out of shotgun shells....and it's during those times I wished I could use shotgun to bash the skulk to death, or aleast TRY :P