(Hopefully) New Fade Blink Mechanic Idea
Fallen Greatly
Join Date: 2011-01-12 Member: 77263Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2011-01-12 Member: 77263Members, Reinforced - Shadow
First off, I am sorry if I am treading on peoples toes, I did a quick search and didn't find a thread that proposes the idea that I am thinking of. Still, if I missed one then sorry and all credit should naturally go to the first one to make such a post.
As for my Fade Blink suggestion here is the gist of it:
First point; dash type blinking while a possible alternate ability as even suggested by the developers, should not replace teleportation style blink.
The problem; teleportation blinking is disorienting and can throw you places you don't really want to be in the heat of battle.
Proposed solution; make blinking utilize the following mouse presses by default: right mouse brings up and closes fade blinking ghost effect and left click initiates blink. When left click is pressed down and held, the player is teleported to the new location but remains invisible and invulnerable until the button is released. Under this proposal, the left mouse button immediately reverts back to the default primary attack key under normal circumstances. While holding the mouse key and remaining in a limbo state, Fades can freely look around to orient themselves towards ta but cannot move. Energy will slowly be drained as long as the Fade remains in limbo.
Arguably this is not a very different or original idea. However, one thing I have not seen is the following proposed element:
(New?) Idea: While in limbo, Fade players can press alt fire to again bring up the fade blinking ghost and move to position themselves with it accordingly. Quickly releasing and pressing mouse 1 button again allows for a double blink effect with only a brief flash of the fade teleportation effect at the site where the fade was in limbo. The number of times that this pattern could be stringed together would be limited only by the energy still remaining for the fade player. Theoretically, a double, triple, quadruple blink or greater would be possible so depending on energy cost of blink and the amount of time spent in limbo between each blink.
I would love to hear feedback on this idea. If anyone has difficulty understanding what I am getting at, please feel free to ask questions. I will try to get back to you as soon as I can. Again, sorry if this has been proposed before. But still, would like to see the idea discussed more. For anyone who took the time to read through and consider this idea, thanks.
As for my Fade Blink suggestion here is the gist of it:
First point; dash type blinking while a possible alternate ability as even suggested by the developers, should not replace teleportation style blink.
The problem; teleportation blinking is disorienting and can throw you places you don't really want to be in the heat of battle.
Proposed solution; make blinking utilize the following mouse presses by default: right mouse brings up and closes fade blinking ghost effect and left click initiates blink. When left click is pressed down and held, the player is teleported to the new location but remains invisible and invulnerable until the button is released. Under this proposal, the left mouse button immediately reverts back to the default primary attack key under normal circumstances. While holding the mouse key and remaining in a limbo state, Fades can freely look around to orient themselves towards ta but cannot move. Energy will slowly be drained as long as the Fade remains in limbo.
Arguably this is not a very different or original idea. However, one thing I have not seen is the following proposed element:
(New?) Idea: While in limbo, Fade players can press alt fire to again bring up the fade blinking ghost and move to position themselves with it accordingly. Quickly releasing and pressing mouse 1 button again allows for a double blink effect with only a brief flash of the fade teleportation effect at the site where the fade was in limbo. The number of times that this pattern could be stringed together would be limited only by the energy still remaining for the fade player. Theoretically, a double, triple, quadruple blink or greater would be possible so depending on energy cost of blink and the amount of time spent in limbo between each blink.
I would love to hear feedback on this idea. If anyone has difficulty understanding what I am getting at, please feel free to ask questions. I will try to get back to you as soon as I can. Again, sorry if this has been proposed before. But still, would like to see the idea discussed more. For anyone who took the time to read through and consider this idea, thanks.
Comments
Man this would make fades something scary to deal with once they started to blink around a room.
Maybe you could tie an upgrade into this. Some sort of advanced blink upgrade.
Ehm yeah sure...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this would be great. Only thing I say is maybe allow the fade a very very small amount of walking room so he can adjust his position according to the movements of the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A static Godmode isnt enough - i agree...
This ideas are so overpowered, i cant find words...
Isn't that rhetoric a little over the top. It is pretty far from a static godmode. He can't attack, he can barely move, and it only lasts as long as he has energy. The moment he moves, attacks, or runs out of energy, he appears and takes full damage. This could also be easily balanced by just reducing the fades durability and increasing energy cost as a trade off for his improved mobility.
And you should find words, because just stating it is overpowered without a clear conversation on why doesn't make it overpowered.
I could easily say, the fades blink is so underpowered, I can't find words...
Frankly, all I'd like to see is
1. 1-click blink effect
2. Ability to manually control the blink distance via my mouse scroll wheel
3. Getting rid of the blink smoke/particle effect after teleporting
You can already do #3 by turning on alien vision, but it would be nice if that wasn't necessary.
And you should find words, because just stating it is overpowered without a clear conversation on why doesn't make it overpowered.
I could easily say, the fades blink is so underpowered, I can't find words...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok overpowered and godmode is maybe a little over the top - but it would be very powerful in some situations since you can dodge dmg stay invisible and removev flamethrower dots.
Run into a group of flamethrowers and shotguns with full energy - you nearly die, and just blink blink and stay alive. (if you got good timing and reactions, in case you are facing a wall)
Blink into a room of marines, and get full focus, distract whole marine groups and dont die, so your other fade and lerk friends can come in and finish you off a lot easier while reload whatever.
There is a lot you can balance, and a lot you can do without changing the full mechanic - lets start with scardys ideas.
PS: The walkaround while invulerable idea would make it some kind of godmode. (or would need to drain energy so fast that you cant really use it)
This encourages skill-based maneuvers and ambush tactics, something that I'd like emphasized when playing as Fade.
would the cloaking option be an upgrade to the current normal fade mechanics or should it be a instant give me like leap is now?
would the cloaking option be an upgrade to the current normal fade mechanics or should it be a instant give me like leap is now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps not immediate uncloak, rather energy drain scales with damage taken. I don't know what they plan on doing for cloaked lifeforms on fire when the Shade comes along, but flame's energy crippling ability and possibly TF2 style Spy-on-fire reveal make the Flamethrower ever potent against Fades.
So yeah, the initial idea might be overpowered, but I would argue that these changes go to great lengths to bring it closer to "on paper" balanced.
So yeah, the initial idea might be overpowered, but I would argue that these changes go to great lengths to bring it closer to "on paper" balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. NS1 fades could cloak technically forever, and they weren't overpowered. Hell everyone went focus fade.
But just to pick at your idea :)...
It's a bad idea to mix up the functions of each mouse click, or change them according to context. Then you've got to ensure this step-by-step Blink is consistent across each separate "weapon" since you will presumably be allowed to blink while using Swipe, Stab, and Sap, each of which have their own properties, parameters, and functions (and I'm speaking abstractly; not talking about the code itself), yet you're still constrained by these contexts under which clicking a button should attack or do something else entirely and then... Left-click is for attacking, Right-click is for blinking. Each ability needs to be modular. Anything else is unnecessarily confusing.
Also, someone needs to start a One Click Blink petition!
As for concerns over button presses, that's a fair point to bring up. While I personally favor this layout I was discussing the idea with a friend who propose a different control method focused entirely on mouse 2. First click brings up ghost, second click initiates Blink and if held puts the player in limbo. Multiblinking is done via the ghost not disappearing. The ghost only cancels when the player performs a swipe or some other mouse 1 ability. Again I favor my configuration but this one does offer some promise too. Would be nice to have the ability to toggle configurations. We are allowed to map keys after all. Why not have more choice in this too.
I would be more inclined to go with your friends implementation, however what you are suggesting and what he is are not a simple matter of "2 different configurations". Such a drastic change in mechanics are hardly a boolean value, each configuration would need to be tweaked and balanced.
Additionally, it is still unnecessary (as it is now) to require 2 clicks to Blink. Much simpler if pressing and holding Blink brings up the ghost, and releasing it Blinks.
Still, I think you'll discover that when Feint is released, it will accomplish exactly what you hope to.
A combination of the NS2 and NS1 blink would be nice.
Here's how I see it:
You press mouse1 to begin the blink. You go poof.
As you hold down mouse1, it is exactly like NS1 blink.
You let go of mouse1, and you re-poof. Or after 1-2ish second max you re-poof.
I think having insta-teleport unlimited distance is imbalanced. Having to rotate a view model is also sort of unwieldy. Keeping it in first person works much better. Also, if you look at the original nightcrawler video that was inspiration for blink, theres like a delay that adds some suspense. Because you know he's moving, but you don't know where he will re-appear.
Its much better and scarier.
<a href="http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv" target="_blank">http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv</a>
From December, a little after the Fade got put in, I think.
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While I don't mind the current Blink ability for the Fade, other ideas popped into my head for how the Fade could get around using this ability. Trying to stay true to NS1, the current ability seems like a good fit -- however I feel like I lose a lot of the movement control or movement prediction. I always felt like the Fade should have supreme control with mobility -- able to Blink behind the marines with ease and attack.
The idea that rolled into my head came up when I thought about the game Soul Reaver: Legacy of Kain. If anyone has played this, you know the gameplay contains an ability that allows the character to "shift" into a spectral plane -- separate from the material plane.
Something like this, that would allow the Fade to Blink in and out, would be pretty cool. I guess you could think of it as the fade becoming invisible and not able to interact with anything in this "spectral plane" (rather than an instantaneous jump). This could allow the Fade to play a bit more sneaky and properly position themselves in any way the player could manage. Remaining in this plane could use adrenaline/energy, of course. I think it would be fairly easy to incorporate as well.
The more I think about it, the more ideas come to mind. Using the existing particle/sprite effect for Blinking, adding a short delay when Blinking back into the material plane (the effect could be used as an indicator to where the Fade will Blink in). Maybe shifting into the spectral-type plane simply instantly and completely cloaks the Fade, still being able to take damage...
I think people might see this idea as an all-powerful or cheap ability -- but I think anything could be balanced or incorporated as long as it made the match fair/playable
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to Josh's idea as well.
Maybe while the Fade's in this other plane it drains energy continuously but when standing still it's a slower rate as opposed to moving. Faster movement while in this invisible mode as well?
This is almost exactly what I was thinking of.
<!--quoteo(post=1847397:date=May 19 2011, 08:41 PM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ May 19 2011, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something like this, that would allow the Fade to Blink in and out, would be pretty cool. I guess you could think of it as the fade becoming invisible and not able to interact with anything in this "spectral plane" (rather than an instantaneous jump). This could allow the Fade to play a bit more sneaky and properly position themselves in any way the player could manage. Remaining in this plane could use adrenaline/energy, of course. I think it would be fairly easy to incorporate as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think while the Fade is in this "spectral plane" that he would move much faster and not be affected by gravity. That way he can still travel some decent distance, like the current version, but will also be able to to get to more interesting and surprising attack positions. And with gravity not stopping him, he could get into the high ceiling spaces.
<!--quoteo(post=1847397:date=May 19 2011, 08:41 PM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ May 19 2011, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe shifting into the spectral-type plane simply instantly and completely cloaks the Fade, still being able to take damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can understand why he should take damage while blinking in a balance perspective, but if he can't interact other players(eg. attacking them) while blinking then players should not be able to interact with him. The Fade should be invulnerable while blinking because he is not in the same dimension as the bullets and/or fire. I think Erriiieeee is on the right track with what he suggested. Having the Fade's energy used quicker the more he moves.
And thinking more about the "spectral plane". Maybe if two fades blink at the same time, they will be able to see each other and make coordinated attacks.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Just like he suggested it.
+1
1) Clicks and holds Blink button.
*Fade enters the Spectral Plane with the current visual "poof" effect.
*Fade has a screen effect to show him that he is in the Spectral Plane.
*Fade is 100% invulnerable and invisible.
*Fade can see other Fades in the Spectral Plane
*Fade can't see as far.
*Fade can't interact with marines or other aliens.(Gorge Heal, Structure Effects, DI Heal. Nothing)
2) He moves to his desired position.
*Fade can move faster and ignore gravity.
*Fades energy slow drains.
*Fades energy drain quicker the more he moves.
*Fade can stay up to 5 seconds if he does not move.
3) He releases the Blink button.
*Fade leaves the Spectral Plane with the current visual "poof" effect.
4) He smacks a marine.
EDIT: I think forcing the Fade to move constantly while Blinking will make him want to come out of it as soon as he can. I would rather have it that he can take a bit of time to plan what he will do. The Fade should be sneaky and strike from the shadows so to speak. And not a rocket powered invisible blender.
This makes it simple and blink is only controlled with 1 button. Very much skill based movement. Sounds a little OP, but that's where energy usage comes in.
Current Standard blink: click RMB and release. Ghost appears. Click again to blink to ghost location.
Secondary new blink: hold down RMB. become invisible/invulnerable and move super quick. Release RMB and re-appear.
I begin to blink forward after a marine, his squad comes around the corner, I know I can't take all of them, I double tap backwards, blink back into a corridor, double tap left, and blink around the corner. I didn't have to spend the time turning around and try to maneuverer my way around the corner.
On the other hand, I got a very long gap to close, and I need to close it quickly, I can bring up the standard blink, fly forward, grab my kill, turn around, and blink away before backup ever arrives.
Will see how it turns out though.