<!--quoteo(post=1845998:date=May 13 2011, 05:15 PM:name=oldassgamers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oldassgamers @ May 13 2011, 05:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1845998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys, just ignore bl1tz, i know him from "BAD CLAN" , he was banned and he was a extremely disrespectful/immature person who likes to create problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think we can judge for ourselves whether or not this person is worthy of attention.
<!--QuoteBegin-'OPIE'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('OPIE')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I hate people who buy something early, decide they don't like it and then they want their money back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like he bought a finished product, sat on it for a year, THEN dediced to return it. Pre-ordering this game ment putting faith in the developers they will finish this game in a foreseeable amount of time, and because we're dealing with 'faith' here, the amount a person has and how much abuse it can take is very different indeed for everyone among us. I can certainly relate to him as I myself am not certain where the path we're going down will lead. I anticipated a significantly better running NS2 by now, in fact, where we are now is what I thought the July-alpha was going to be. And there was\is no telling how the development will progress, so I don't blame people for getting out at such a 'late' stage.
<!--QuoteBegin-'OPIE'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('OPIE')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->UWE is the only game developer that I know that will issue refunds...consider yourself lucky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's pretty ###### rich. UWE is also one the few developers I can recall that uses pre-orders to finance the development, so it really cannot be compared to pre-ordering a game that has already gone gold and is weeks\a month away.
<!--quoteo(post=1845938:date=May 13 2011, 09:13 AM:name=AerialEvent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AerialEvent @ May 13 2011, 09:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1845938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not any less fair than selling something that doesn't exist and then missing the deadline, what is it, 4 times now? 5?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Games do pre orders all the time, essentially selling something that doesn't exist. Admittedly our pre order period has been long, but other then the Fall 2009 date, what are all these supposed deadlines we've missed? We've been very careful NOT to give out any specific release deadlines since the whole 2009 thing, and if people still want to pre order a game with no officially stated final release date, that is their prerogative.
We realize its an unorthodox approach to game development and sales, and because of that we also offer refunds of the game. As was posted here already, if you are really unhappy email store@unknownworlds.com with your refund request and it will be taken care of.
Maybe they should just refund steam credit to your account :o, that would be pretty sweet.
But i think you've got nothing else to do but b*tch and moan, i mean that's life, people buy stuff all the time that they aren't happy with, crap on tv? music? movies. It happens.
But for a small team of designers i think they're doing f**king sweet.
Well lets be honest here, its partially UWEs fault for announcing beta after 157 ... while alpha players could appreciate the leap in performance that build brought, for a new player it must of been a shock...
... especially if you consider the current norm for so called beta's by the big publishers these days.
I am struggling to bother to load up NS2 these days, I havent even checked out the last few builds to be honest. The servers were getting emptier and less came up on the lists, those that were up and had players had tick rate issues, or the game would simply crash with the report bug dialogue box hidden in the background.
I am not going to request a refund as I feel I got my moneys worth in NS 1 and feel that NS 2 could eventually overcome the current low its in now and , like the orginal come back to popularity.
Its just common sense tho, why buy beta/alpha if you wanted a game that was going to run perfectly? They specifically mentioned its a working progress. Forget what was said about deadlines, anything can happen- Such as accidents, even family issues, life outside your little pc world is much more complicated. And besides programming isn't as easy as you imagine it to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1846014:date=May 13 2011, 08:31 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 13 2011, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's pretty ###### rich. UWE is also one the few developers I can recall that uses pre-orders to finance the development, so it really cannot be compared to pre-ordering a game that has already gone gold and is weeks\a month away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Abuse"? Seriously? Other than being optimistic about release times (and if you can't understand that let me say "welcome to game development") UWE has never hidden or lied about any of these things. The only way you could say you didn't know what you were getting in to is if you hadn't actually read any background before clicking the "buy" button. AND they've already made it clear on many occasions they will refund you if you feel unhappy with the progress made.
So you're welcome to leave any time, no one is stopping you, but spare us the "oh poor cheated me" routine.
<!--quoteo(post=1846031:date=May 13 2011, 07:24 PM:name=marsvin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marsvin @ May 13 2011, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE has never hidden or lied about any of these things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes they have. They told you that they'd release a game in Fall 2009, Charlie admitted himself in his GDC that at the point of pre-orders, there really was no game. Then the engine test came about the following April and that barely worked. I found you one lie.
<!--quoteo(post=1846037:date=May 13 2011, 07:55 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ May 13 2011, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something about Gorge plushies was mentioned... Not a lie, but not a cake either!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A gorge plushie filled with fairy cakes bearing the words "Fall 2009 was a lie", would be awesome.
<!--quoteo(post=1846031:date=May 13 2011, 08:24 PM:name=marsvin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marsvin @ May 13 2011, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Abuse"? Seriously? Other than being optimistic about release times (and if you can't understand that let me say "welcome to game development") UWE has never hidden or lied about any of these things. The only way you could say you didn't know what you were getting in to is if you hadn't actually read any background before clicking the "buy" button. AND they've already made it clear on many occasions they will refund you if you feel unhappy with the progress made.
So you're welcome to leave any time, no one is stopping you, but spare us the "oh poor cheated me" routine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I used the term 'abuse' lightheartedly, it's not as if Cory is slipping you one from behind with his man-tool. Aside from the infamous (and meme-worthy) 'Fall 2009', they've kept away from another such hard prediction, but the overal impression certainly was (on the forums too) that it wouldn't take this long. Add to that the buy-page still says "1.2 GHz Processor (SSE2 required), 256MB RAM, a DirectX 9 level graphics card", if you'd post those specs on these forums right now, you'd be made fun of. Add to that still that the term 'Beta' is out of place here really, no two ways about it: (nearly) Feature complete = Beta. It's amicable they allow refunds, but stating we ought to be thankful they do is quite ludicrous.
I'm not talking about myself personally, just trying to convey the general atmosphere. I've had truckloads of fun with NS1 and never did a constie, so the money was well spent either way.
<!--quoteo(post=1846055:date=May 13 2011, 05:31 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ May 13 2011, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone know if you can still be refunded after activating the beta on Steam?
I've e-mailed UWE for a refund, fingers crossed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can. you bought ns2 here and not on Steam, but Steam's own policy allows pre-orders to be refunded anyway.
What you guys fail to realize is that even if NS2 doesn't take off etc. you are not going to see another NS in a decade or maybe two, or maybe ever! NS2 is your best chance of getting NS experience.
<!--quoteo(post=1846055:date=May 14 2011, 12:31 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ May 14 2011, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone know if you can still be refunded after activating the beta on Steam?
I've e-mailed UWE for a refund, fingers crossed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cmon James, I'm gonna quote Hopsu cos hes right. 20:37.34 <Hopeanuoli> ootte te kaikki ns1 sen verra pelannu että sen 30e pysty lahjottaa vaikka ns2 ei koskaa tuliskaa Which means in english, you guys have played NS1 so much you can easily donate 30e even if NS2 is never released.
Looking at my Steam game list, putting Constie+SE price for NS1, around 50 euros makes it the best purchase I've ever done in terms of money spent / hours played. Can you look at yours and disagree?
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
pfff, there are like 10 guys working on this game. so what if it takes them 1 more year to finish this already amazing game.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Wings_of_Liberty" target="_blank">Its not like if they have a staff of around 140 with an 80 million dollar budget just to release a sequel in f***ing 8 years.</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1846071:date=May 14 2011, 12:21 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ May 14 2011, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What you guys fail to realize is that even if NS2 doesn't take off etc. you are not going to see another NS in a decade or maybe two, or maybe ever! NS2 is your best chance of getting NS experience.
Cmon James, I'm gonna quote Hopsu cos hes right. 20:37.34 <Hopeanuoli> ootte te kaikki ns1 sen verra pelannu että sen 30e pysty lahjottaa vaikka ns2 ei koskaa tuliskaa Which means in english, you guys have played NS1 so much you can easily donate 30e even if NS2 is never released.
Looking at my Steam game list, putting Constie+SE price for NS1, around 50 euros makes it the best purchase I've ever done in terms of money spent / hours played. Can you look at yours and disagree?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, you are right Jiri. Heck- I put in enough time in NS1 to warrant an MMO-style monthly subscription.
The problem is- and I know this sounds hypocritical given what I said above- I see no light at the end of the tunnel for NS2. Whilst the game has improved in the months/years I've been testing it, the improvements have been (for want of a better phrase) "modular" add-ons that don't address my concerns; that is- the basics: frame-rate and netcode.
I know, I know- people reading this could tell me I know nothing about game designing and this could very well come at the end of production for all I know but at the end of the day it is my money that I invested two years ago and have seen insufficient return (in terms of I didn't enjoy NS2 at the start of the beta and I don't enjoy it now). I want NS2 to be a massive success and I want UWE to get the acclaim they will deserve, but I don't see myself thinking "that $40 was worth it" for the rest of 2011 and possibly even 2012.
In terms of seeing it as a donation for NS1- I did pay for Constellation and I did playtest 3.x so it's not like I've been a <b>total</b> free-loading jerk, and if I do get my $40 back, I can at least look at it as a 2 year interest-free loan that I will give back to UWE when the game is playable.
For anyone reading this and thinking I'm a bit of a ######: I'm not trying to justify the reasons for getting my money back, I'm just explaining them. I hope others are more patient/loyal than I am, and hope that between the huge pre-order numbers and silent investment that UWE got, that the team aren't struggling to pay for food/rent.
Regardless of whether a game is a AAA title like CoD or an indie smash like Gemini Rue/Heroes of Newerth/Minecraft: if I enjoy it, I'll pay money for it. Sadly, I've yet to enjoy NS2 :(
I don't expect anyone to agree with me, these are just my thoughts.
<!--quoteo(post=1846110:date=May 14 2011, 02:27 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ May 14 2011, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take solace in the fact, I can agree with you sherpa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For all your bitterness and hate towards NS2, you seem to spend more time on these forums then anyone else.
Comments
I think we can judge for ourselves whether or not this person is worthy of attention.
<!--QuoteBegin-'OPIE'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('OPIE')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I hate people who buy something early, decide they don't like it and then they want their money back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not like he bought a finished product, sat on it for a year, THEN dediced to return it. Pre-ordering this game ment putting faith in the developers they will finish this game in a foreseeable amount of time, and because we're dealing with 'faith' here, the amount a person has and how much abuse it can take is very different indeed for everyone among us. I can certainly relate to him as I myself am not certain where the path we're going down will lead. I anticipated a significantly better running NS2 by now, in fact, where we are now is what I thought the July-alpha was going to be. And there was\is no telling how the development will progress, so I don't blame people for getting out at such a 'late' stage.
<!--QuoteBegin-'OPIE'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('OPIE')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->UWE is the only game developer that I know that will issue refunds...consider yourself lucky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's pretty ###### rich. UWE is also one the few developers I can recall that uses pre-orders to finance the development, so it really cannot be compared to pre-ordering a game that has already gone gold and is weeks\a month away.
Games do pre orders all the time, essentially selling something that doesn't exist. Admittedly our pre order period has been long, but other then the Fall 2009 date, what are all these supposed deadlines we've missed? We've been very careful NOT to give out any specific release deadlines since the whole 2009 thing, and if people still want to pre order a game with no officially stated final release date, that is their prerogative.
We realize its an unorthodox approach to game development and sales, and because of that we also offer refunds of the game. As was posted here already, if you are really unhappy email store@unknownworlds.com with your refund request and it will be taken care of.
--Cory
But i think you've got nothing else to do but b*tch and moan, i mean that's life, people buy stuff all the time that they aren't happy with, crap on tv? music? movies.
It happens.
But for a small team of designers i think they're doing f**king sweet.
... especially if you consider the current norm for so called beta's by the big publishers these days.
I am struggling to bother to load up NS2 these days, I havent even checked out the last few builds to be honest. The servers were getting emptier and less came up on the lists, those that were up and had players had tick rate issues, or the game would simply crash with the report bug dialogue box hidden in the background.
I am not going to request a refund as I feel I got my moneys worth in NS 1 and feel that NS 2 could eventually overcome the current low its in now and , like the orginal come back to popularity.
Forget what was said about deadlines, anything can happen- Such as accidents, even family issues, life outside your little pc world is much more complicated. And besides programming isn't as easy as you imagine it to be.
"Abuse"? Seriously? Other than being optimistic about release times (and if you can't understand that let me say "welcome to game development") UWE has never hidden or lied about any of these things. The only way you could say you didn't know what you were getting in to is if you hadn't actually read any background before clicking the "buy" button. AND they've already made it clear on many occasions they will refund you if you feel unhappy with the progress made.
So you're welcome to leave any time, no one is stopping you, but spare us the "oh poor cheated me" routine.
Yes they have. They told you that they'd release a game in Fall 2009, Charlie admitted himself in his GDC that at the point of pre-orders, there really was no game. Then the engine test came about the following April and that barely worked. I found you one lie.
A gorge plushie filled with fairy cakes bearing the words "Fall 2009 was a lie", would be awesome.
So you're welcome to leave any time, no one is stopping you, but spare us the "oh poor cheated me" routine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used the term 'abuse' lightheartedly, it's not as if Cory is slipping you one from behind with his man-tool. Aside from the infamous (and meme-worthy) 'Fall 2009', they've kept away from another such hard prediction, but the overal impression certainly was (on the forums too) that it wouldn't take this long. Add to that the buy-page still says "1.2 GHz Processor (SSE2 required), 256MB RAM, a DirectX 9 level graphics card", if you'd post those specs on these forums right now, you'd be made fun of. Add to that still that the term 'Beta' is out of place here really, no two ways about it: (nearly) Feature complete = Beta. It's amicable they allow refunds, but stating we ought to be thankful they do is quite ludicrous.
I'm not talking about myself personally, just trying to convey the general atmosphere. I've had truckloads of fun with NS1 and never did a constie, so the money was well spent either way.
I've e-mailed UWE for a refund, fingers crossed.
I've e-mailed UWE for a refund, fingers crossed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can. you bought ns2 here and not on Steam, but Steam's own policy allows pre-orders to be refunded anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1846055:date=May 14 2011, 12:31 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ May 14 2011, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone know if you can still be refunded after activating the beta on Steam?
I've e-mailed UWE for a refund, fingers crossed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cmon James, I'm gonna quote Hopsu cos hes right.
20:37.34 <Hopeanuoli> ootte te kaikki ns1 sen verra pelannu että sen 30e pysty lahjottaa vaikka ns2 ei koskaa tuliskaa
Which means in english, you guys have played NS1 so much you can easily donate 30e even if NS2 is never released.
Looking at my Steam game list, putting Constie+SE price for NS1, around 50 euros makes it the best purchase I've ever done in terms of money spent / hours played. Can you look at yours and disagree?
so what if it takes them 1 more year to finish this already amazing game.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Wings_of_Liberty" target="_blank">Its not like if they have a staff of around 140 with an 80 million dollar budget just to release a sequel in f***ing 8 years.</a>
<i>*cough*</i>
Cmon James, I'm gonna quote Hopsu cos hes right.
20:37.34 <Hopeanuoli> ootte te kaikki ns1 sen verra pelannu että sen 30e pysty lahjottaa vaikka ns2 ei koskaa tuliskaa
Which means in english, you guys have played NS1 so much you can easily donate 30e even if NS2 is never released.
Looking at my Steam game list, putting Constie+SE price for NS1, around 50 euros makes it the best purchase I've ever done in terms of money spent / hours played. Can you look at yours and disagree?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, you are right Jiri. Heck- I put in enough time in NS1 to warrant an MMO-style monthly subscription.
The problem is- and I know this sounds hypocritical given what I said above- I see no light at the end of the tunnel for NS2. Whilst the game has improved in the months/years I've been testing it, the improvements have been (for want of a better phrase) "modular" add-ons that don't address my concerns; that is- the basics: frame-rate and netcode.
I know, I know- people reading this could tell me I know nothing about game designing and this could very well come at the end of production for all I know but at the end of the day it is my money that I invested two years ago and have seen insufficient return (in terms of I didn't enjoy NS2 at the start of the beta and I don't enjoy it now). I want NS2 to be a massive success and I want UWE to get the acclaim they will deserve, but I don't see myself thinking "that $40 was worth it" for the rest of 2011 and possibly even 2012.
In terms of seeing it as a donation for NS1- I did pay for Constellation and I did playtest 3.x so it's not like I've been a <b>total</b> free-loading jerk, and if I do get my $40 back, I can at least look at it as a 2 year interest-free loan that I will give back to UWE when the game is playable.
For anyone reading this and thinking I'm a bit of a ######: I'm not trying to justify the reasons for getting my money back, I'm just explaining them. I hope others are more patient/loyal than I am, and hope that between the huge pre-order numbers and silent investment that UWE got, that the team aren't struggling to pay for food/rent.
Regardless of whether a game is a AAA title like CoD or an indie smash like Gemini Rue/Heroes of Newerth/Minecraft: if I enjoy it, I'll pay money for it. Sadly, I've yet to enjoy NS2 :(
I don't expect anyone to agree with me, these are just my thoughts.
For all your bitterness and hate towards NS2, you seem to spend more time on these forums then anyone else.
--Cory