New PC, needs feedback please! :)

INKEDOUT · June 2011

<div class="IPBDescription">I am building a new rig and need some feedback on it.</div>So if you havenâ€™t seen me on here for years itâ€™s because I havenâ€™t had a decent PC to play games on for a very long time and lost interest in something I couldnâ€™t do (played on my Xbox instead). I purchased NS2 beta just before my old PC finally hit the end of its gaming life. I am now about to invest some big bucks in a video editing machine that should easily be able to handle NS2 and other games, I hope.

But as this is my first custom build I am looking for some feedback on compatibility and specs.

I am based in the UK so all the links and prices are UK based.

My budget is 2460 USD or 1500 GBP.

If anyone could give me any feedback I would really appreciate it. I would especially like some decent recommendations for a good capture and playback card as they only one I can find with an output is questionable, it must be able to connect to a VCR/VHS Recorder (long story, donâ€™t ask), meaning it has to have S-Video or Composite in and out.

Here is my current list, if you or someone you know (please send them the link!) could give me any feedback I would be extremely thankful.

And if this all goes to plan I look forward to seeing you all in NS2 some time soon! :)

<b>Case: NZXT Phantom White</b> - Â£105.47 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/240815" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/240815</a>
<b>CPU: Intel Core i7-2600k</b> - Â£235.01 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252535" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252535</a>
<b>Mother Board: MSI Z68A-GD80</b> (B3) - Â£176.27 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/269183" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/269183</a>
<b>PSU: Corsair 850W HX</b> Â£125.84 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164951" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164951</a>
<b>Cooler: Be Quiet! Dark Rock Advanced CPU Cooler</b> - Â£40.78 <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/be-quiet!-dark-rock-advanced-bk014-cpu-cooler-lga775-1155-1156-1366-am2-am2plus-am3-754-940" target="_blank">http://www.scan.co.uk/products/be-quiet&#3...lus-am3-754-940</a>
<b>Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3</b> - Â£149.99 <a href="http://www.box.co.uk/Corsair_Vengeance_16GB_DDR3_Performance__1042338.html" target="_blank">http://www.box.co.uk/Corsair_Vengeance_16G...e__1042338.html</a>
<b>HD: Samsung HD204UI Spinpoint F4 2TB</b> - Â£58.46 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237908" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237908</a>
<b>Optical Drive: LG GH22NS50 22x DVD+R</b> Â£15:00 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169683" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169683</a>
<b>Graphics Card: Gainward Geforce GTX 570 Phantom</b> - Â£269.00 <a href="http://www.box.co.uk/Gainward_Geforce_GTX_570_1280Mb_Graphics_1044390.html" target="_blank">http://www.box.co.uk/Gainward_Geforce_GTX_...cs_1044390.html</a>
<b>Capture Card: KWorld 883 Pro</b> - Â£23.99 <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/kworld-dv-av-tv-883-pro-3-in-1-video-editing-card-svideo-video-in-audio-in-audio-out-1394a-firewire" target="_blank">http://www.scan.co.uk/products/kworld-dv-a...-1394a-firewire</a>
<b>SSD: Crucial 64GB M4</b> - Â£85.90 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/264770" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/264770</a>
<b>OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit</b> - Â£68.15 <a href="http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173791" target="_blank">http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173791</a>
<b>Fans: BitFenix Spectre</b> - Â£8.36 <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/230mm-bitfenix-spectre-black-fan-blue-led-quiet-fluid-dynamic-bearings-(fdb)-900rpm" target="_blank">http://www.scan.co.uk/products/230mm-bitfe...gs-(fdb)-900rpm</a>

<b>Thanks again!</b>

Obraxis · June 2011

Dude, that's goign to be a sweet-ass system.

If I were you, I'd get a 128GB SSD, and just pay for the extra. Take it from a 128GB SSD user, you'll need it unless you're completely anal about keeping stuff off C:.

Will run NS2 amazingly well :-)

Talesin · June 2011

<b>Motherboard</b>: I'd go with an ASUS myself; they're rock-solid. MSI are known for odd issues that can only be fixed by swapping out the motherboard.. usually bringing in a new crop of issues. Price is the tradeoff... but penny wise, pound foolish.

<b>CPU Cooler</b>: I'd recommend a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus instead. Fewer heatpipes, but thicker. I use that myself when/where I can; stock cooler was running around 50C at idle and close to 70 under load, swapping to the 212 (dual 120mm fan, 800rpm, *silent*) brought my Core i7 920 down to around 33-35C under full, sustained load.

<b>HDD</b>: Go with a three-disk RAID5 setup. WD Greens are low-power, low-heat, low-sound, high reliability. Bump up to Blacks if you want more power consumption, noise and heat for even better performance. Once you've owned a system with a RAID setup, you can't go back... a little like bumping up from a 16" CRT to a 23" LCD, or from single to dual (or triple) monitors. Don't forget a dedicated fan for these, if your drive chassis isn't already equipped with one.

<b>SSD</b>: Looks fine. Don't forget to point your swap, default directories, program files, etc. to the RAID instead. You want as little written to this as possible, for maximum lifespan. If you can swing it, only new library installs and OS upgrades.

<b>Graphics Card</b>: If this is meant to be a video editing workstation primarily, I would recommend a Quadro/FireGL instead of the consumer-grade card. The higher end stuff works just about as well in games, and while it tends to be more expensive, the productivity bump in professional editing/image manip./3D suites is worth it. Alternately, get a consumer card that can be softmodded into a workstation card. Workstation cards support multiple hw-accellerated viewpanes natively, consumer cards have to emulate and switch.

<b>OS</b>: Don't skimp out here. W7 Home? At least grab Professional. The added functionality is worth it. Do go for the 64-bit version though. Added functionality, and only a very few ancient programs won't run either natively, or under WinSXS mode. Plus single programs (like video editing!) can use the whole block of installed memory, instead of having a 3GB-per-program cap.

Other things to consider:
<ul><li>Hot swap SATA drive bay (Good for moving around REALLY large files)</li><li>Bluetooth module</li><li>UPS (At least an inexpensive, low-draw one to give you 30-60 seconds to save and shut down cleanly; better with an automated bit of software to do it all for you on power loss.. saves your sanity by preventing any important system files from getting just *slightly* corrupted)</li></ul>

That_Annoying_Kid · June 2011

I have a 90 second ups

it's snazzy and has saved me a couple times, hypothetically I could hook it up via telephone cable and install it's software and it will auto shutdown on power loss but I just keep it for when I'm around

what kind of ink do you have inked out?

Talesin · June 2011

My own UPS setup is odd... I have a 20-minute on my main server, and cheapo no-USB 2-minute units on the workstations and secondary servers. The other systems are set up to watch the main server, and shut down 30 seconds after it loses grid power, under the assumption that they have as well (30 seconds to avoid false-shutdowns on flickers). The UPS will turn the main server back on after having grid back for three minutes solid. The main server grabs a list of all powered-on systems as soon as the on-battery event happens (before they shut down), to which it then sends out wake-on-lan packets.

A little Rube Goldberg, but it makes me smile; it also saves about $50 per UPS on each of the cheapies.

Koruyo · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>swapping to the 212 (dual 120mm fan, 800rpm, *silent*) brought my Core i7 920 down to around 33-35C under full, sustained load.</div>

Ambient temp of -10Â°C right?

33-35Â°C under full load is impossible with that cooler + only 800rmp fans.(or your meaning of load != my load => e.g. prime95 stability test)

Other than that your points are good.

PS: 850watt PSU is a BIT over the top, but i know this forum... so i save me the stress.
edit: Fans on the side are bad for airflow, since it creates a lot turbulences - i would stick with the front and back of the case...

lolfighter · June 2011

Even if RAID is going overboard or simply not in your budget, get two hard drives. Put two partitions on each drive:

Drive 1: C and D. C is the system partition, D is for your data. This makes reinstalling hassle-free - you'll have nothing of importance on C, so delete away.
Drive 2: E and F. F is a small partition dedicated solely to your swapfile. That's the file your system uses for virtual memory. This prevents swapfile fragmentation, and having the swapfile on a seperate disc from your OS will increase performance. E is for games. Don't install games to the default directory, always place them on E. Again, for performance.

This setup was crucial for Windows XP because it LOVED writing pages to disc even when it had ######loads of physical memory. Windows 7 has gotten smarter about virtual memory usage, but this setup still won't hurt.

Talesin · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jun 5 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Ambient temp of -10Â°C right?

33-35Â°C under full load is impossible with that cooler + only 800rmp fans.(or your meaning of load != my load => e.g. prime95 stability test)</div>
Apologies, I'd meant that I normally *run* them at 800rpm, and they're essentially silent; why I'd put it in parentheses. Temp tests were done at full tilt, ~1800-2Krpm. Which still isn't very loud. Idles at around 26-28C@800rpm.
More temp test stuff: 18-19C ambient. Antec 900 case with the fans intelligently set up; ie: front 2 (bottom two HDD chassis) and side 120mm fans pulling in, rear 120mm pushing out, top 200mm pushing out, CPU cooler set up for a vertical path, pulling air from the bottom so convection works with it to get the heat out and away. Stress done under Ubuntu Linux 10.04, running 8 copies of burnK7. To be fair, the readings were taken from the ACPI sensors (lm-sensors package) rather than an independent IR thermometer, but so were the initial ones. Not to even go into the question of on-chip calibration.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>PS: 850watt PSU is a BIT over the top, but i know this forum... so i save me the stress.
edit: Fans on the side are bad for airflow, since it creates a lot turbulences - i would stick with the front and back of the case...</div>
Going large on a PSU is a good thing. Too many newbie builders cheap out or get a 'just enough' PSU, leading to voltage drops under peak load, which leads to erratic behaviour. One of the first troubleshooting points I check on a 'weird problems' machine; 4 out of 5, unstable voltage is responsible.
Agreed on the side-fans, with a couple of caveats. If you know and have planned out your airflow to account for the turbulence, are using ducting to guide the flow, or if it's right over the CPU with a horizontally-mounted fan and the fan pulls down from the top, pushing direct fresh air into the CPU cooler.

Thaldarin · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 6 2011, 06:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Going large on a PSU is a good thing. Too many newbie builders cheap out or get a 'just enough' PSU, leading to voltage drops under peak load, which leads to erratic behaviour.</div>

Not to mention future upgrades, higher power needs on CPUs, graphics card and then multi-graphics cards are then accounted for so you don't need to buy another PSU.

lolfighter · June 2011

Drawback is that a PSU that is being undertaxed is less efficient, leading to higher power draw.

Crispy · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 6 2011, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><b>OS</b>: Don't skimp out here. W7 Home? At least grab Professional. The added functionality is worth it. Do go for the 64-bit version though. Added functionality, and only a very few ancient programs won't run either natively, or under WinSXS mode. Plus single programs (like video editing!) can use the whole block of installed memory, instead of having a 3GB-per-program cap.</div>Not sure I agree on this. What do you really get from Pro that you don't have with Home?

Corporal_Fortier · June 2011

Here's the list of feature comparison:
<a href="http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/compare" target="_blank">http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/compare</a>

I expected more differences between the two. The only things I ever used there are remote desktop and offline folders.

I remember trying to help someone once but couldn't even run "services.msc" or something similar because he had the very basic version of the OS. I think it was in the Vista days though -- damn memory, always fading. So yeah, make sure you get access to some of the under-the-hood stuff to deal with the occasional troubleshooting.

INKEDOUT · June 2011

<b>Thanks everyone for the information!</b>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 6 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><b>Motherboard</b>: I'd go with an ASUS myself...</div>

Thanks a lot for the suggestions Talesin:

Motherboard: I have looked at the ASUS offerings again today, I would probably go for the Asus P8Z68 DELUXE, and if I were to get it I would probably get it from <a href="http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?origin=gbase6.5&prodID=B673101" target="_blank">http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/in...;prodID=B673101</a> although they only have 2 left. Itâ€™s a tiny bit more $$$ but it looks like you get a little more for your money, so I may actually get that. I canâ€™t find many decent reviews on it tho, but I have only had a brief evening to look these things up.

CPU Cooler: I havenâ€™t had a chance to read any reviews about the CoolerMaster Hyper 212, but it is nearly half the price when I googled it earlier so I will defiantly look into it later this week.

HDD: three-disk RAID5 set-up, I think this will defiantly something I would like to do, but I feel as though it will probably be something I may have to leave for an upgrade later on.

SSD: is defiantly only going to be for OS, hence not going for the full 128.

Graphics Card: I wish I could afford a high end Quadro, but from what I have looked up, even some of the basic ones would nearly double the total cost of my build. There is a capture card version that I would love to get my hands on but frankly spending over 5000 GBP is just beyond my means. The FireGLs looked somewhat cheaper, but still pretty pricey for my budget. But Talesin or anyone has a suggestion of a good quality cheaper option I would be happy to listen to it, but I would have to say 600 GBP would probably be my limit on a Graphics Card. And that would really be pushing it. In all honesty I only really wanted to spend 1000 GBP on this build but as I was researching it I decided that some parts were worth spending a little more on.

OS: yes defiantly will be getting the 64-bit version. I had a look at that list, that Corporal_Frortier linked, before deciding on the Home edition. I canâ€™t see the useful difference between home and professional. Maybe I am missing something.

Big side fan... itâ€™s only 9GBP so Iâ€™ll get it, see if it works out. I have heard so many guys saying that bigger side fan is better, so I though it canâ€™t hurt. But I guess if its pushing air into the case, the air flow is going to be messy, but if it were to pull air out of the case, wouldnâ€™t things be a little smoother?

There are still clearly a load of things to look into, I would like to hear about what people think about changing to a Asus P8Z68 DELUXE, would you do it? Other than that I havenâ€™t really had enough time to look into most suggestions here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (That_Annoying_Kid @ Jun 6 2011, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>what kind of ink do you have inked out?</div>

Loads of different types, I did fine art at Uni and graphic design when I was in collage, I have a printer too! HaHa!!

I think I need to sleep now! I will look into other suggestions over this week, but I feel that many of them may have to wait as upgrades, as I am definatly pushing my budget, or maybe it's just cold feet, lol! :)

spellman23 · June 2011

On the SSD for OS-only front, you can actually fit the whole sucker on a 40GB SSD. That's what I'm running right now.

Also, you'll want to move all your documents and program files to not that drive. It's a bit of a hassle to get right, but google and there's a few guides. I just took 3 hours and 3 installs to get everything the way I wanted. mmm regedit.

I personally got Pro edition for the XP virtualization. Just my 2cents.

Drfuzzy · June 2011

I've been wanting to build a new computer just to use one of these
<a href="http://hardwarebistro.com/?option=com_simple_review&Itemid=84&review=30-GMC-R-4-BullDozer-Case-Review" target="_blank">http://hardwarebistro.com/?option=com_simp...zer-Case-Review</a>

lolfighter · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (INKEDOUT @ Jun 7 2011, 02:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>defiantly</div>
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thaldarin · June 2011

<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/definitely" target="_blank">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/definitely</a>

Perhaps.

INKEDOUT · June 2011

Woops! Yep... Definitely, definitely! That's what you get when you're a dyslexic who is half asleep. Sorry!

Zaggy · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 7 2011, 02:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>On the SSD for OS-only front, you can actually fit the whole sucker on a 40GB SSD. That's what I'm running right now.

Also, you'll want to move all your documents and program files to not that drive. It's a bit of a hassle to get right, but google and there's a few guides. I just took 3 hours and 3 installs to get everything the way I wanted. mmm regedit.

I personally got Pro edition for the XP virtualization. Just my 2cents.</div>

Why not SSD for program files as well? I like it for the loading times in games.

Temphage · June 2011

Get a <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/noctua-nh-u12p-se2-dual-fan-quiet-cpu-cooler-intel-775i7i5-and-amd-am2-3-compatible" target="_blank">Noctua NH-U12P</a>. It's roughly the same price but is by and large considered one of the <a href="http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_019.jpg" target="_blank">best HS+Fs</a> on the market.

spellman23 · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Jun 7 2011, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850461"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Why not SSD for program files as well? I like it for the loading times in games.</div>

Mostly 'cause I only have a 40GB drive sooo all you can fit is the OS. =p

But yeah, my friend has a 128GB SSD and always jokes "loading times? What loading times????"

The only problem is don't put stuff on there that patches too frequently their binaries, like HoN/DotA/LoL or else you wear out the SSD with the weekly overwritting.

Svenpa · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 7 2011, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>The only problem is don't put stuff on there that patches too frequently their binaries, like HoN/DotA/LoL or else you wear out the SSD with the weekly overwritting.</div>

What is the average life expectancy of a SSD anyway? Seems rather bad that you get lots of speed for a limited time unless you take measures like mentioned above.

Temphage · June 2011

The best breakdown I've seen that used a lot of acronyms and numbers I didn't understand seemed to suggest that for a properly configured OS-only SSD you should be looking at a replacement after about 4 years.

Sounds fair to me.

Talesin · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (INKEDOUT @ Jun 6 2011, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Motherboard: I have looked at the ASUS offerings again today, I would probably go for the Asus P8Z68 DELUXE, and if I were to get it I would probably get it from <a href="http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?origin=gbase6.5&prodID=B673101" target="_blank">http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/in...;prodID=B673101</a> although they only have 2 left. Itâ€™s a tiny bit more $$$ but it looks like you get a little more for your money, so I may actually get that. I canâ€™t find many decent reviews on it tho, but I have only had a brief evening to look these things up.</div> Definitely look up reviews, but yeah. All of my personal rigs use ASUS, full-stop. Did put together one server/network management system with an MSI mobo, and maybe my findings were abnormal... but it took two replacements before I got one that at least seemed to work. Just found out last week that the fourth fan header doesn't read back fan RPM values, and doesn't allow speed control. Not sure if that's intended or not, but I'm going to err on the side of it being this one's quirk, be thankful it's small enough this time to have gone unnoticed for almost a year, and add an in-line rheostat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>CPU Cooler: I havenâ€™t had a chance to read any reviews about the CoolerMaster Hyper 212, but it is nearly half the price when I googled it earlier so I will defiantly look into it later this week.

HDD: three-disk RAID5 set-up, I think this will defiantly something I would like to do, but I feel as though it will probably be something I may have to leave for an upgrade later on.

SSD: is defiantly only going to be for OS, hence not going for the full 128.</div>Yeah, it's ridiculous-cheap for the performance it puts out. Do be careful though, it's LARGE. Barely fit inside one of my cases (heatpipe tips just brush against the access-side panel). Can't describe how delighted I am with mine.
I'd spring at least for a basic 2TB RAID 5 setup right off (3x2TB that is, 4TB usable in R5 config), if at all possible. Adding drives after that is easy enough. Swapping from a single drive after you've gotten established on it? Not so much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Graphics Card: I wish I could afford a high end Quadro, but from what I have looked up, even some of the basic ones would nearly double the total cost of my build. There is a capture card version that I would love to get my hands on but frankly spending over 5000 GBP is just beyond my means. The FireGLs looked somewhat cheaper, but still pretty pricey for my budget. But Talesin or anyone has a suggestion of a good quality cheaper option I would be happy to listen to it, but I would have to say 600 GBP would probably be my limit on a Graphics Card. And that would really be pushing it. In all honesty I only really wanted to spend 1000 GBP on this build but as I was researching it I decided that some parts were worth spending a little more on.

OS: yes defiantly will be getting the 64-bit version. I had a look at that list, that Corporal_Frortier linked, before deciding on the Home edition. I canâ€™t see the useful difference between home and professional. Maybe I am missing something.</div>On the video card front, define what the primary purpose of the workstation is. Video editing? Get a workstation card. Last-gen or a few generations ago DO work perfectly well, and will still outperform consumer-grade cards by a LOT on professional applications. I have a workstation with a FireGL X3 in it (fairly ancient at this point) just for 3D modelling. My current gaming/general-purpose rig is running a GT260-SC216. The old FGL (Radeon X800 Pro equivalent) spanks it stupid in multi-viewport 3D applications, and other suites coded to utilize a proper workstation card.
Professional? XP mode and RDP access. I can't stress how incredibly useful these are. XP mode covers you on older games that might not play nice, and applications that still work fine but may have fallen into public domain. RDP is great for geektypes; forget to upload a file before you left home? RDP in and take care of it. I use this functionality from my phone (Android, plenty of RDP clients) almost daily.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Big side fan... itâ€™s only 9GBP so Iâ€™ll get it, see if it works out. I have heard so many guys saying that bigger side fan is better, so I though it canâ€™t hurt. But I guess if its pushing air into the case, the air flow is going to be messy, but if it were to pull air out of the case, wouldnâ€™t things be a little smoother?</div> No. You want a ratio of 2:1 intake to exhaust fans, and well-designed airflow patterns. More intake fans means potential positive pressure inside the case, meaning things (DUST!!!) are more likely to be carried out by the airflow, instead of turning your system into a lint-trap that needs to be blown out with canned air once a month. More air density = easier to move particulates. Less air density = particulates will fall out of the airstream more easily.
I actually will cover side-ports if I haven't taken them into account in my flow pattern. Directed air is efficient air. Throwing more volume at it just leads to eddy currents and dead spots. Treat air like a particularly stupid fat kid on a waterslide. One path, make sure it's solid and crosses all necessary portions of the case (or just ALL portions of the case), and you're golden. Make baffles with cardboard to guide it, if you just have a big empty space in the middle (with good cable management practices).

Temphage · June 2011

You can only do so much about lint and dust - graphics cards are so WTFhuge that they act as massive air baffles.

spellman23 · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 7 2011, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>The best breakdown I've seen that used a lot of acronyms and numbers I didn't understand seemed to suggest that for a properly configured OS-only SSD you should be looking at a replacement after about 4 years.

Sounds fair to me.</div>

Yup, most are about 4-5 years if OS-only (i.e. minimal large writing). However, there's also talk about SSD failure at about 1 year in. They do have a slightly higher rate of early failure than traditional harddrives. Also, the less % of the it that's occupied the longer the life. If you only have 25% occupied, you have way more room for random writing than 75% occupied. So, size does matter for lifetime. Unlike harddrives where it's always spinning, so not as big of an issue.

Talesin · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 8 2011, 05:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>You can only do so much about lint and dust - graphics cards are so WTFhuge that they act as massive air baffles.</div>
Again, you account for that and can buy cooling solutions (or just pick a card with a GOOD one, instead of the fan-in-the-middle-exhaust-both-ways CRAP that cheap manufacturers are loading people down with more and more often) that pull air in from one side, blow across the whole of the card, and exhaust out through a dedicated second butchblock slot, ducted all the way to the exterior vent (instead of just blowing *at* it, as I've seen some cards pull). My GTX260 does this. It's one of the reasons I bought it (even though it's friggin' stupid-huge). Yes, it'll collect some dust. But with an intelligent setup, the accumulation is greatly decreased/slowed.

Systembuilding can be an art form. I'm still not happy with SATA cables; the old IDE ribbons (80 conductor were best) could be folded and creased to keep themselves in place, flat, and out of the way to the point that you never really visually acknowledged they were there. Power was a little trickier, but could still be done.
Then idiots came in with round cables, of which SATA are almost a logical progression. Can't be folded, stick out in the middle of EVERYTHING, look like complete crap, and almost necessitate zip-ties just to keep things orderly.
Give me a SATA cable that will perform the kind of cablegami tricks that Real Geeks used to pull off regularly, and I'll be happy. Until then... some aspects of progress DO suck.

INKEDOUT · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drfuzzy @ Jun 7 2011, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I've been wanting to build a new computer just to use one of these
<a href="http://hardwarebistro.com/?option=com_simple_review&Itemid=84&review=30-GMC-R-4-BullDozer-Case-Review" target="_blank">http://hardwarebistro.com/?option=com_simp...zer-Case-Review</a></div>

It looks like a I would have to kill an alien every time I turned it on!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Jun 7 2011, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850461"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Why not SSD for program files as well? I like it for the loading times in games.</div>

Fill it up it will die on you, is pretty much what I have read. Windows 7 handles the data for SSDs a little better apparently, but rewriting to them too often means they are far more likely to die on you. Well that's the jist of what I read.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 8 2011, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 9 2011, 05:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'></div>

Ok, so I have been busy cramming in some research. Mainly on RAID, I realised I really had no idea what Iâ€™m talking about/doing when it comes to that. (Total Noob!) So I read the wiki, watched a load of install video and read some articles. But Iâ€™m still slightly confused. I get how RAID5 works and see why it would be a really good idea to set it up now rather than later especially with large files and such. But the complexities of setting it up freak me out slightly: apparently this is normal.
My main concern is that according to what I have read Windows 7 doesnâ€™t support RAID5. I am guessing that just means you canâ€™t get it to run your HDDs in RAID like you can with RAID0 and 1. But the Asus mobo I was looking at earlier, says it supports it. Does that mean I could just get 3 2TB drives, plug them in and sort out the rest in Bios? Or do I definitely need to get a dedicated RAID card?

And what exactly did you by make sure I put the SSD in RAID as well?

Sorry, this all sounds extremely nooby but we all have to start somewhere right... also sorry this is clearly all aimed at Talesin, but anyone can answer. :)

I want to reply to other peoples points, but I havenâ€™t had time to so far this week. I will defiantly try to this weekend.

Also... this article is old but still gets the point across: <a href="http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/pc_airflow_heat_cooling_guide/" target="_blank">Air flow</a> More is not always better.

Talesin · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (INKEDOUT @ Jun 9 2011, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, so I have been busy cramming in some research. Mainly on RAID, I realised I really had no idea what Iâ€™m talking about/doing when it comes to that. (Total Noob!) So I read the wiki, watched a load of install video and read some articles. But Iâ€™m still slightly confused. I get how RAID5 works and see why it would be a really good idea to set it up now rather than later especially with large files and such. But the complexities of setting it up freak me out slightly: apparently this is normal.
My main concern is that according to what I have read Windows 7 doesnâ€™t support RAID5. I am guessing that just means you canâ€™t get it to run your HDDs in RAID like you can with RAID0 and 1. But the Asus mobo I was looking at earlier, says it supports it. Does that mean I could just get 3 2TB drives, plug them in and sort out the rest in Bios? Or do I definitely need to get a dedicated RAID card?

And what exactly did you by make sure I put the SSD in RAID as well?

Sorry, this all sounds extremely nooby but we all have to start somewhere right... also sorry this is clearly all aimed at Talesin, but anyone can answer. :)</div>To go in reverse order:
-Don't worry, everyone starts somewhere and needs to learn. Trial and error works, but asking people who have already spent out and DONE it is better. Armchair recommendations take a back seat.
-Do <b>*NOT*</b> put the SSD into the RAID. Many motherboards (and OSes) <b>cannot</b> boot from a RAID volume. This is why you have a dedicated system drive. Making it an SSD is just gravy. (ARMCHAIR MODE, I HAVE NOT DONE THIS, BUT LEARNED FROM OTHERS->) Also, putting SSDs into a RAID is a good way to kill them and get no real performance boost.. you'll just end up hitting the bus capacity limit as SSDs are so fast to begin with, compared to spinning-platter drives. Also, the checksumming/parity and distribution of new data across the drives can wear them out even faster. One benchmark I saw showed bus-capped performance... for four months. After which that $20K+ of SSDs was running at the same speed as a normal-drive rig, and on a downward trajectory.

-There are different kinds of RAID controllers out there. If your motherboard says it supports RAID-5 (or better, RAID-6), it's likely CPU-assisted. Cheaper chips that way; down side is that you'll see additional CPU usage on reads and writes, and slightly slower performance than a dedicated RAID controller card. Dedicated cards tend to be on the pricier side, especially with large numbers of drive ports to make them worthwhile... but if you're going for an insane-performance rig, that's the way to do it. Similar, if your RAID controller dies, you're vendor-locked.. easier to replace a card than a built-in chip.. ie, new motherboard. If you can find another of the same one you've got, however many years later.
That said, you don't need a dedicated card unless you know you need one. With the prevalence of multi-core processors, it's exceptionally unlikely you'll notice any of the load it generates. RAID controllers don't die often outside of corporate environments where they're constantly heavily loaded.

Just go with the BIOS RAID setup. You'll be fine. It's not as imposing as it seems, and is the best bang-for-buck of which I can think when setting up a workstation, with the balanced data-safety (RAID 0 is faster, but if you lose one drive, you're kaput'ski. 5, you just replace the dead drive with another of the same size, wait a few hours for the array to rebuild, and are on your feet again no harm no foul).

Also, was looking at the GMC-R4 case for a previous build. Definitely a unique look, and would be good for a show piece or LAN-party case... but then imagine having to clean all those nooks out, and what they'll look like caked with the bits of dust you can NEVER get out. Also, the optical drive mount (while a VERY neat look!) strikes me as potentially easily breakable. The temperature sensors are OK, but I rely on sensor readings within the OS to sound an alarm if my temps are high. Stylistically I'd give it a 7/10. Maintenance, 2/10. Decided against in my case though; I go for function over form as much as possible.

lolfighter · June 2011

Since your budget isn't unlimited I'd skip the RAID unless it's not much of a price increase over getting two good harddrives. Either save the money or upgrade the other components. Don't skimp on the harddrives though, RAID or not.

What are you going for anyway? Do you intend to build the Ã¼berrig, or just a solid rig? I'd advise against the former if you're mainly concerned with game performance. Video games are largely stagnant right now in terms of technology due to DirectX 9 being kept on life support by outdated consoles, so a good-but-not-beastly rig will probably last you for years. I built mine in early '08 with not-quite-top-of-the-line components and with minor upgrades I am still seeing solid performance to this day.

Top-of-the-line always stinks in terms of price:performance ratio. I call it the "I want to be the very best" tax.

TychoCelchuuu · June 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jun 10 2011, 05:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Since your budget isn't unlimited I'd skip the RAID unless it's not much of a price increase over getting two good harddrives. Either save the money or upgrade the other components. Don't skimp on the harddrives though, RAID or not.

What are you going for anyway? Do you intend to build the Ã¼berrig, or just a solid rig? I'd advise against the former if you're mainly concerned with game performance. Video games are largely stagnant right now in terms of technology due to DirectX 9 being kept on life support by outdated consoles, so a good-but-not-beastly rig will probably last you for years. I built mine in early '08 with not-quite-top-of-the-line components and with minor upgrades I am still seeing solid performance to this day.

Top-of-the-line always stinks in terms of price:performance ratio. I call it the "I want to be the very best" tax.</div>
Pretty much. Paying the bleeding edge tax is never a great idea, and it's an even worse idea when any computer you buy right now is going to blow video games away because they're all built to run on consoles. With the money you were looking to spend on that original build you posted, you could build a much cheaper computer that will run everything on max for a few years, then throw the massive cash you've saved into upgrades once it starts slowing down a bit. This lets you run everything on max for much longer, and if any parts break you're not quite as screwed. Buying the nicest stuff is rarely the best option. RAID 5 is probably overboard unless you really, really want your stuff backed up in case of hard drive failure, but RAID alone is no backup solution because they're all in the same case anyways and the performance increase isn't really worth it when you look at the price, especially when you could just pop an SSD in there if you're desperate.

Basically, buy some nice stuff (an i5 or an i7 if you really MUST spend that much money, and overclock it) and then buy some nice stuff later, rather than getting diamond-encrusted water coolers for your north bridge, which is what you are sort of aiming at right now with, for example, your 3d card.

Also, I noticed you talking about Quadros and FireGLs, but your OP made it sound like you're a gamer. If you're a gamer buy gaming cards, not workstation cards.

New PC, needs feedback please! :)

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