#178 rock paper fade
Koruyo
AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">or fade fade fade...</div>#1 Fade blink:
1. No aircontrol => you can only move in a straight line - i would like to make some curves, or like ns1 goto where i am looking.
2. It needs some cooldown or minimum energy to trigger it, to prevent phasing in and out every ~1s (energy reg is fast enough to make this possible) becoming nearly untouchable. (or at least, you can get away alive pretty much all the time)
e.g. your energy needs to be at least at 40% to trigger the ability, if below you ll have to wait until you are back at 40%.
Point 2 combined with feast, makes you a monster atm.
#2 Weapon drop&pickup:
You can drop and pick it up, but if you die - it doesnt drop. :(
Marines run out of special weapons/pres very fast if aliens got fades because of this (+ #1).
edit:
hmm the minimum energy thing wouldnt compleatly fix it since you can still just press and release very fast above 40%....,
hmm...
edit2:
Forget the minimum energy thing, and just give blink a minimum energy cost => if you spam click it fast, you will get to 0% energy very fast, the amount must be balanced around the energy regeneration rate, so you will have to wait at least 2-3s until you can blink again if you hit 0%energy.
edit3: or you make some kind of counter, the more you use blink without a break inbetween the higher the energy cost gets(will need a minimum cost too) - think about it like a debuff that stacks everytime you press blink.
to drop the "debuff" you will have to wait 5-10s
(kinda like the League of Legends Kassadin Blink, just that its mana instead of energy)
1. No aircontrol => you can only move in a straight line - i would like to make some curves, or like ns1 goto where i am looking.
2. It needs some cooldown or minimum energy to trigger it, to prevent phasing in and out every ~1s (energy reg is fast enough to make this possible) becoming nearly untouchable. (or at least, you can get away alive pretty much all the time)
e.g. your energy needs to be at least at 40% to trigger the ability, if below you ll have to wait until you are back at 40%.
Point 2 combined with feast, makes you a monster atm.
#2 Weapon drop&pickup:
You can drop and pick it up, but if you die - it doesnt drop. :(
Marines run out of special weapons/pres very fast if aliens got fades because of this (+ #1).
edit:
hmm the minimum energy thing wouldnt compleatly fix it since you can still just press and release very fast above 40%....,
hmm...
edit2:
Forget the minimum energy thing, and just give blink a minimum energy cost => if you spam click it fast, you will get to 0% energy very fast, the amount must be balanced around the energy regeneration rate, so you will have to wait at least 2-3s until you can blink again if you hit 0%energy.
edit3: or you make some kind of counter, the more you use blink without a break inbetween the higher the energy cost gets(will need a minimum cost too) - think about it like a debuff that stacks everytime you press blink.
to drop the "debuff" you will have to wait 5-10s
(kinda like the League of Legends Kassadin Blink, just that its mana instead of energy)
Comments
Also about the low level of air control, I feel okay about it, odd to get used to at first but playing both sides I felt it lent to keeping it from being entirely unpredictable and cheap. Having to drop out to redirect isn't that difficult and was kind of one of the points.
Weapon drop.. it's exactly how I wanted it, with drop on death it tended to encourage dangerous runs back to try to get your weapon which just led to unintentional unequipped ranbos on occasion. Not to mention others sometimes ended up picking up your weapon and you'd run out there for nothing sometimes so now you're out in the field with an lmg and that fade is going to disembowel you. In short, it's probably better the game is set up to replace your equipment every respawn, it's simply faster getting back in the thick of it like that in all occasions the way it is right now, excluding the armory being down, but in that case you're supposed to be ill equipped then.
I'll say this though, it feels like they compensated the Pres generation with on death weapon drop in mind though.. which kinda bothered me keeping myself equipped sometimes, I know it's more res for kills in mind really.. but it wasn't cutting it sometimes.
Aliens do feel more dominating at the moment, but it would make playing the Fade a lot more interesting.
Especially as your first point of aim makes the biggest difference when blinking, and level geometry doesnt help.
Aliens do feel more dominating at the moment, but it would make playing the Fade a lot more interesting.
Especially as your first point of aim makes the biggest difference when blinking, and level geometry doesnt help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am gonna say I do not want to see more air control currently. I think that is alittle too much ns1 hemogenization. On top of that, the fade already has a great new escape and avoidance mechanism with the new blink, it does not need more unwarranted power yet. Unless it is proven he is UP, it has barely been 1 day.
Give the metagame some time to gestate properly please!
and don't start talking about metagame in NS2, it still has some features NYI
But it is easy mode atm playing as fade. Some may say its only because I havent played on a highly competative game but thats not really the point either since a game should be playable on a casual level aswell. From what Ive seen playing NS2 and also downloading NS1 again is that a lot of changes has been made to the game pace and even though most parts of NS2 have been slowed down a bit and made more tactical/realistic the fade is as fast and deadly as it was in NS1. Ive seen up to 3 marines emptying a full clip each into a fade without it dying while taking out buildings etc. It does make sense that a fade would be winning 90% of the time in a 1v1 against a marine but a single fade killing the entire marine team over and over doesnt make sense at all. Once the aliens get fades the rounds end up being a base war for the marines since venturing out is suicide no matter how many you are.
My solution would be that the fade loses its energy when taking dmg. If its under a certain amount of fire it wont regen its energy and setting it on fire would have the same effect. When the fade is out of combat no matter what hp its on it regens its energy. This would solve the problem of them always being able to get away. They would easily kill single marines but as a group marines would stand more of chance against them. This would change the fade gameplay somewhat and stop the leeroy tactics into base.
To those asking for a minimum energy to activate the blink: No. In NS1, you could activate blink with the tiniest amounts of energy. Without blink, the fade is just a walking guy with really big knifes for arms, and would be cannon fodder for any half decent marine.
To everyone in this thread: The game is still half finished, the onos has yet to go in. Wait until we see our beloved HMG's, then you'll have to worry about fades less. You cant balance a half finished game.
But i will say this: NS2 is definitely taking shape, and i'm enjoying playing it.
I agree with you. But I have a really hard time seeing it getting balanced when fades have a lot of hp, do a lot of dmg and move way faster then a marine. Unless marines get a oneshot weapon against fades it doesnt matter what they add since they are still going to be OP. The fade has so much hp and do so much dmg it can easily take out a single marine without even using blink
You will already take away a lot of the energy regen with a flamer, so marines with flamers and shotguns working together can take on fades with success.
The next patch will address your concerns regarding the fade somewhat. it will get more damage, probably a bit slower hit-rate as well as a higher energy cost for the attack.
making him draining his energy faster, forcing hit and run tactics.
The next patch will address your concerns regarding the fade somewhat. it will get more damage, probably a bit slower hit-rate as well as a higher energy cost for the attack.
making him draining his energy faster, forcing hit and run tactics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds awesome. I would enjoy playing the fade if it involved more player skill and tactic, its not hard getting a kill streak of more then 5 if you have frenzy and swarm on.
<!--quoteo(post=1856669:date=Jun 27 2011, 06:45 AM:name=todd1Ok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (todd1Ok @ Jun 27 2011, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To those asking for air control for fades while inside the blink: Are you ###### nuts? The fade is invisible while blinking. The only way for a marine to predict where the fade is going to reappear from the blink is if it moves in a straight line.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These two really sum it up. There is a balance required when giving or not giving information to players. Too much and every player is so predictable that the game can be over before it ever starts (Chess). Too little information and players are incapable of making any educated predictions on what an opponent will do, at which point the game is no longer dependent on skill, but on chance.
Spatial awareness is one of the most crucial pieces of information a player can possess, and moves like Blink and Leap deprive players of varying degrees of that information. Marines can attempt to follow a Leaping Skulk, and with a Scanner Sweep and the new trailing Fade effect it should be possible to predict a Blinking Fade's movement, but if Fades are given the capacity to be completely unpredictable the game will not be fun to anyone playing but the Fades. It can already get like this to some degree, but I don't believe it is at an imbalanced level currently.
EDIT: Engrish.
The teleport thing changes the enemy interaction quite a bit, but I think I'd also like to see some extra stuff movement wise. I'd maybe still favour ability to control the teleport exit more in terms of velocity and direction. Combine that with a limited enough air curve and we might have something.
While the Scan is active it shows the fade as he is blinking and allows him to take damage.
This way it adds a link between the Commander and the Marines and it allows the Commander to actually help out in a battle.
While the Scan is active it shows the fade as he is blinking and allows him to take damage.
This way it adds a link between the Commander and the Marines and it allows the Commander to actually help out in a battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking the same thing and would love to see this added. I think it really broadens the usage for Scan.