^ But as it is, some people already use it all the time. I don't understand how "toggle on" versus "toggle off" can be such a <b>meaningful</b> choice, and take so much <b>skill</b>.
Personally I think they should just go ahead and try out the OP's/twiliteblue's idea - and remove the toggle. That's what we're here for - to test it. If it does turn out so OP (more OP than it is now), then that's a bridge we'll cross when we get to it.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited July 2011
How about instead of having it always on.
Try making it a singular sonar ping that starts to fade away after use.
Full Alien Vision for the first 5 seconds. Alien Vision fading to normal vision in the duration of 5 seconds. (Looking like the pictures in the thread) Having to wait 5 more seconds until the player can activate alien vision again. To prevent players from reactivating it every time it goes away.
Here's an interesting side-effect of alien vision: <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/commander_player_model_visible_with_alien_vision_on" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...alien_vision_on</a>
^ That happens with fades blinking too, they show up as tiny sideways fades during a blink, it's kinda useful really when I need to follow a team mate's movements.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1858682:date=Jul 7 2011, 11:51 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 7 2011, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But then you'd just be hitting the F key every 15 seconds... that's the same or worse than the current toggle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure if they want the risk of not having the alien vision in a crucial moment. A 5-10 second delay after the vision wears off should stop some people from using it constantly.
I love Alien Sight, I always turn it on when I attack the marines, I find it makes locating and attacking so much easier because the target stands out so well against the background; when I am moving around the map, I turn it off.
I don't like talk about making it one way or another, just add a slider to the options screen to give everyone there personal choice of how extreme they want the yellow and orange to be, so that people like the OP who want it 50% opaque can have it that way, and people like me who want it 100% can have it that way.
I somehow missed an entire page of this discussion.
<!--quoteo(post=1858377:date=Jul 7 2011, 12:43 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 7 2011, 12:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like shown in twiliteblue's image? While better than what we have now, that would still take away from the game's visuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a matter of opinion, but I think it could actually <b>add</b> to the visuals.
Well, I rationalise it with: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The difference in (default) alien and marine vision will make the difference between [playing] aliens and marines even more pronounced (and yet it actually serves a purpose [and is not there merely as a gimmick]).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hint hint: asymmetry. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1858765:date=Jul 8 2011, 08:52 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 8 2011, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure if they want the risk of not having the alien vision in a crucial moment. A 5-10 second delay after the vision wears off should stop some people from using it constantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not convinced that there's a necessity to keep people from using it all the time, in fact, it is my opinion that they should remove the toggle entirely and have aliens always use it. Is it because it's overpowered? In what way? The aliens are primarily melee or short-ranged while the marines are ranged - the aliens already have a big disadvantage. A marine can attack an alien the moment he sees it, while the aliens must first close the distance; so to compensate for this, an alien should be able to see a marine easier than the marine sees him, and the alien should be able to see a marine before the marine sees him. That's the same rationale behind hive sight and parasite - except that those are situational wallhacks, and this isn't even that.
twiliteblue: Could you bring up a screenshot of your mod in low lighting (darkness) and bright lighting? I'm interested to see how it looks, and how viable a simple %opaque is (or if it needs to scale with light levels).
IIRC, originally it was Charlie's own idea (in that prototyping video) that alien vision be automatic when moving into darker areas (and he considered that the effect could scale with light levels), rather than the (temporary) "flashlight switch" toggle that we have now.
<!--quoteo(post=1858779:date=Jul 8 2011, 10:48 AM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Jul 8 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858779"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love Alien Sight, I always turn it on when I attack the marines, I find it makes locating and attacking so much easier because the target stands out so well against the background; when I am moving around the map, I turn it off.
I don't like talk about making it one way or another, just add a slider to the options screen to give everyone there personal choice of how extreme they want the yellow and orange to be, so that people like the OP who want it 50% opaque can have it that way, and people like me who want it 100% can have it that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a matter of balance, not player preference.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1858997:date=Jul 9 2011, 02:09 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 9 2011, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->twiliteblue: Could you bring up a screenshot of your mod in low lighting (darkness) and bright lighting? I'm interested to see how it looks, and how viable a simple %opaque is (or if it needs to scale with light levels).
IIRC, originally it was Charlie's own idea (in that prototyping video) that alien vision be automatic when moving into darker areas (and he considered that the effect could scale with light levels), rather than the (temporary) "flashlight switch" toggle that we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These screen shots demonstrate that even minimal (10%) dark vision effect is very effective. IMO it looks very similar to the silhouette/outline effect in L4D.
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?bxq4h95tiud27jj" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod 1.1</a>
<img src="http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8609/ns2darkvision01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Dark room without alien vision
<img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5880/ns2darkvision02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Dark room with alien vision
<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6296/ns2darkvision00.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Lit room with alien vision
I guess the biggest factor for visibility is the outlining of the edges and silhouettes. Frankly, I think those images look amazing, especially the second one.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I noticed most people have been downloading the first version of the alien vision mod. So I updated my posts with link to alien vision mod v1.1, which I think looks better.
<!--quoteo(post=1859407:date=Jul 10 2011, 07:31 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 10 2011, 07:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->post<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That looks amazing! To me it feels like a visible "smell", like you can see with another sense (smelling), awesome!
I’ve played NS for many years but never played NS1. (Yes you can have a two without a one.) It was useful to have the alien flashlight on all the time in NS at times. It helped in dark areas to find towers and when a gorge. In NS2 it seems to only be an advantage in the dark. I switch it off in lit areas because it seems that I get better perspective. The marine flashlight removes a lot of the advantage in the dark.
So what do you think of the OP's suggestion / twiliteblue's mod?
Also, "NS1" is used to refer to Natural Selection <i>the First</i>, to distinguish it from NS2 in a discussion about both games, and "NS" (Natural Selection) is best used to refer to the franchise/IP, or either game. Kinda like the Play Station - when the Play Station 2 came out, the original was called the PSX. (Or maybe it was always called the PSX... who knows. Point is, it makes it easy to distinguish.)
Comments
I don't understand how "toggle on" versus "toggle off" can be such a <b>meaningful</b> choice, and take so much <b>skill</b>.
Personally I think they should just go ahead and try out the OP's/twiliteblue's idea - and remove the toggle. That's what we're here for - to test it. If it does turn out so OP (more OP than it is now), then that's a bridge we'll cross when we get to it.
Try making it a singular sonar ping that starts to fade away after use.
Full Alien Vision for the first 5 seconds.
Alien Vision fading to normal vision in the duration of 5 seconds. (Looking like the pictures in the thread)
Having to wait 5 more seconds until the player can activate alien vision again. To prevent players from reactivating it every time it goes away.
--Scythe--
That happens with fades blinking too, they show up as tiny sideways fades during a blink, it's kinda useful really when I need to follow a team mate's movements.
Sure if they want the risk of not having the alien vision in a crucial moment. A 5-10 second delay after the vision wears off should stop some people from using it constantly.
I don't like talk about making it one way or another, just add a slider to the options screen to give everyone there personal choice of how extreme they want the yellow and orange to be, so that people like the OP who want it 50% opaque can have it that way, and people like me who want it 100% can have it that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1858377:date=Jul 7 2011, 12:43 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 7 2011, 12:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like shown in twiliteblue's image? While better than what we have now, that would still take away from the game's visuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a matter of opinion, but I think it could actually <b>add</b> to the visuals.
Well, I rationalise it with:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The difference in (default) alien and marine vision will make the difference between [playing] aliens and marines even more pronounced (and yet it actually serves a purpose [and is not there merely as a gimmick]).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hint hint: asymmetry. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1858765:date=Jul 8 2011, 08:52 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 8 2011, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure if they want the risk of not having the alien vision in a crucial moment. A 5-10 second delay after the vision wears off should stop some people from using it constantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not convinced that there's a necessity to keep people from using it all the time, in fact, it is my opinion that they should remove the toggle entirely and have aliens always use it. Is it because it's overpowered? In what way? The aliens are primarily melee or short-ranged while the marines are ranged - the aliens already have a big disadvantage. A marine can attack an alien the moment he sees it, while the aliens must first close the distance; so to compensate for this, an alien should be able to see a marine easier than the marine sees him, and the alien should be able to see a marine before the marine sees him. That's the same rationale behind hive sight and parasite - except that those are situational wallhacks, and this isn't even that.
twiliteblue: Could you bring up a screenshot of your mod in low lighting (darkness) and bright lighting? I'm interested to see how it looks, and how viable a simple %opaque is (or if it needs to scale with light levels).
IIRC, originally it was Charlie's own idea (in that prototyping video) that alien vision be automatic when moving into darker areas (and he considered that the effect could scale with light levels), rather than the (temporary) "flashlight switch" toggle that we have now.
I don't like talk about making it one way or another, just add a slider to the options screen to give everyone there personal choice of how extreme they want the yellow and orange to be, so that people like the OP who want it 50% opaque can have it that way, and people like me who want it 100% can have it that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a matter of balance, not player preference.
IIRC, originally it was Charlie's own idea (in that prototyping video) that alien vision be automatic when moving into darker areas (and he considered that the effect could scale with light levels), rather than the (temporary) "flashlight switch" toggle that we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These screen shots demonstrate that even minimal (10%) dark vision effect is very effective. IMO it looks very similar to the silhouette/outline effect in L4D.
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?bxq4h95tiud27jj" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod 1.1</a>
<img src="http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8609/ns2darkvision01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Dark room without alien vision
<img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5880/ns2darkvision02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Dark room with alien vision
<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6296/ns2darkvision00.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Lit room with alien vision
Frankly, I think those images look amazing, especially the second one.
I would like this as the default view as well.
also, maybe you should repost this in the modding section?
and GetSatisfaction like Harimau said.
That looks amazing! To me it feels like a visible "smell", like you can see with another sense (smelling), awesome!
Also, "NS1" is used to refer to Natural Selection <i>the First</i>, to distinguish it from NS2 in a discussion about both games, and "NS" (Natural Selection) is best used to refer to the franchise/IP, or either game.
Kinda like the Play Station - when the Play Station 2 came out, the original was called the PSX. (Or maybe it was always called the PSX... who knows. Point is, it makes it easy to distinguish.)