Perhaps get a few screenshots of you running around the map would be nice, kind of hard to make any judgements on it other than on the layout for the moment.
Yep they are on their way. I'll be posting a few tonight. I put the layout out here to try and generate a bit of interest. This is my first time editing a map for any game. I just find the Spark editor so easy to use and I have been having a lot of fun with it. I will definitely be posting some shots of the marine and alien start as those have had the most work put into them.
I have been working real hard on it over the past weeks and I will be looking forward to all of your critiques as I want to make this map as fun as possible for the community.
<!--quoteo(post=1856909:date=Jun 28 2011, 04:09 PM:name=CajunFried)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CajunFried @ Jun 28 2011, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856909"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep they are on their way. I'll be posting a few tonight. I put the layout out here to try and generate a bit of interest. This is my first time editing a map for any game. I just find the Spark editor so easy to use and I have been having a lot of fun with it. I will definitely be posting some shots of the marine and alien start as those have had the most work put into them.
I have been working real hard on it over the past weeks and I will be looking forward to all of your critiques as I want to make this map as fun as possible for the community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alrighty, I have some shots here of the Marine start as well as the layout again (labeled this time). I don't have any ready of the Alien start yet as I am still messing with the lighting to make it somewhat presentable. So, I hope y'all enjoy what I have so far. Please give me the best critique you can especially with regards to the lighting.
ns2_x7 is based off of the 5 Tech/7 RT -Spread Offense layout in the mapping guidelines. An extra thing to note is that I am crafting the vent system and the hallways in this map with skulks in mind. My goal is to have Marines be very wary when they are going to venture down a hallway. They have high ceilings with plenty of shadow and pipe work. There isn't a lot of room to jump around in my hallways, but if something changes game-wise I made them easy to expand. I will be posting an example of my vent/hallway system later on. Anyway I will quit yapping, here you go.
<!--quoteo(post=1857065:date=Jun 29 2011, 07:28 AM:name=TravCarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TravCarp @ Jun 29 2011, 07:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't forget about gorges (fix coming soon) and marines to go through vents also soon!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What? Marines in vents? Unthinkable.
Anyway, the bridge looks... too big, too empty.
I think most of the space looks very wasted, it looks more like a hanger for large aircraft or lots of vehicles.
Liking the screenshots so far Cajun! Those starting tech point rooms are massive, though I'm interested to see how ranged combat plays out for both teams when attack/defending in either one.
<!--quoteo(post=1857118:date=Jun 29 2011, 08:04 AM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 29 2011, 08:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Liking the screenshots so far Cajun! Those starting tech point rooms are massive, though I'm interested to see how ranged combat plays out for both teams when attack/defending in either one.
By the way did you make that skybox?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish I had. I used a free program called spacescape. That was one of the pre made files. I just changed the color and adjusted the brightness and contrast. Check it out they had some other pre made ones that I didn't look at yet.
The marine spawn looks a little dark don't you think? As the marine spawn it should be well lit to give the marines the advantage as well as it being open. Also the ceiling and walls are a little 'flat', try and break up the ceiling a bit by adding girders or anything to make it look more attractive and less bland, for the moment i imagine it's not complete but other than that the marine spawn is looking fairly good, nice an open, good for the marines to take advantage of their ranged weapons.
But yeah, add a few more lights to brighten it up since from the looks of things it's all mostly a light shade of blue which isn't bad but perhaps a few small red lights to break up the colour a bit or white spot lights.
<!--quoteo(post=1857126:date=Jun 30 2011, 12:20 AM:name=CajunFried)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CajunFried @ Jun 30 2011, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish I had. I used a free program called spacescape. That was one of the pre made files. I just changed the color and adjusted the brightness and contrast. Check it out they had some other pre made ones that I didn't look at yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh ok, but I'm guessing you still had to convert the files into .dds format and create a new skybox from the files right?
If so could you message me how you did this? I currently can't select the skybox in the cinematic editor to assign the files to create a new skybox.
<!--quoteo(post=1857253:date=Jun 29 2011, 11:26 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 29 2011, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Liking that pyramid-like structure at the top of engine room, cool eerie green glow coming from it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's actually a marine power node that I blew up to the size of the room. I've just been adding modifications all over it.
<!--quoteo(post=1857256:date=Jun 30 2011, 06:23 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 30 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->woah that's genius<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's gimmicky, but it works so well... I realised straight away that it was a power node.
Your texture alignment doesn't work with the geometry (and vice versa). The props are just thrown on to the texture without any hint that they should be there. Play other maps where this has been done right (i.e. Tram) and compare to your map, analyze how the props have been placed there and how the textures are aligned to compliment the geometry. It's good to work without lighting as it easily hides problems like that for the untrained eye.
You should really give examples when handing out criticism like that...turn it into constructive criticism. Right now we can only guess as to what you mean, and you make it sound like everything is a mess. I see some examples of what you mean (maybe??). Such as the vent above and to the left of the fan in the engine room. The tile floor around that fan. The tile floor around the CC in marine start. It looks like the tile floor was laid down first then other things were dropped on top of it. Again I am guessing thats what you mean.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's gimmicky, but it works so well... I realised straight away that it was a power node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say its closer to genius than gimmicky. If it works, it works. Using something unconventionally contrary to how it was intended is how great discoveries and advancements happen. It kinda reminds of Spore creature creation. All the best creatures used body parts in ways they were not intended.
<!--quoteo(post=1857658:date=Jul 2 2011, 02:50 PM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 2 2011, 02:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd say its closer to genius than gimmicky. If it works, it works. Using something unconventionally contrary to how it was intended is how great discoveries and advancements happen. It kinda reminds of Spore creature creation. All the best creatures used body parts in ways they were not intended.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardly genius, inventive use of the marine power node? definetly.
<!--quoteo(post=1857631:date=Jul 2 2011, 05:30 AM:name=cron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cron @ Jul 2 2011, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your texture alignment doesn't work with the geometry (and vice versa). The props are just thrown on to the texture without any hint that they should be there. Play other maps where this has been done right (i.e. Tram) and compare to your map, analyze how the props have been placed there and how the textures are aligned to compliment the geometry. It's good to work without lighting as it easily hides problems like that for the untrained eye.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what you mean and I have to admit that I was rushing through this especially since I am brand new to mapping. I'm redesigning the entire map and am going to slow down, reapplying what I have learned so far about the editor. I'm already working on the new bridge(which looks 10 times better so far) and am laying down geometry properly. Hopefully in a month or two I'll have much better screen shots to show. Thanks for the advice everybody.
<!--quoteo(post=1857658:date=Jul 2 2011, 02:50 PM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 2 2011, 02:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You should really give examples when handing out criticism like that...turn it into constructive criticism. Right now we can only guess as to what you mean, and you make it sound like everything is a mess. I see some examples of what you mean (maybe??). Such as the vent above and to the left of the fan in the engine room. The tile floor around that fan. The tile floor around the CC in marine start. It looks like the tile floor was laid down first then other things were dropped on top of it. Again I am guessing thats what you mean.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, the amount of information I gave was hardly enough to help someone who is new to mapping. My bad, I'll try to explain it further with pictures.
<!--quoteo(post=1857669:date=Jul 2 2011, 05:53 PM:name=CajunFried)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CajunFried @ Jul 2 2011, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know what you mean and I have to admit that I was rushing through this especially since I am brand new to mapping. I'm redesigning the entire map and am going to slow down, reapplying what I have learned so far about the editor. I'm already working on the new bridge(which looks 10 times better so far) and am laying down geometry properly. Hopefully in a month or two I'll have much better screen shots to show. Thanks for the advice everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Revisiting previously built environments and applying newly gained experience is a very good way to improve your work as a beginner. Hopefully the following will help you with that:
1) The texture already has an edge, align it with the edge of the geometry. Ideally trim the edge with more geometry and a different texture, to make it more interesting than just a plain cube (a lot in your screen shots look like cubes, try to get away from that as it is boring for the eye unless portrayed with great detail).
2) Cut an octagon in the wall, trim its edges, make it about 24 - 32 units deep and place the prop in there, it will be more interesting to look at and the prop will no longer look out of place as it does now. Check out <a href="http://mendasp.net/stuff/wip/tisza-wip29.jpg" target="_blank">this picture</a> from mendasps map "tisza" and look at the lower left corner, the terminal. The wall behind it is pushed back a bit so the terminal would not stick out too much and on the floor there is this long yellow/black striped trim creating a transition between wall and floor. Also notice the square vent above the trim, it is pushed into the wall and thanks to the great texture work it looks believable.
3) Here you can apply what you see on the vent of the above linked picture from mendasps map. Don't just place this vent-texture planar to the wall texture, this was done in the 90s when the GPUs couldn't handle enough polygons :) If you place it planar as you did you have to trim it with other textures, as an example see the vent in the ceiling <a href="http://mendasp.net/stuff/wip/tisza-wip28-2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>; if you look closely you can see that it's two grates next to each other with another texture around them creating a believable transition. Even better is to shape the geometry to support the vent: Make it stick out a bit or push it in the wall.
I strongly encourage you to study detail work in other maps to get a sense of what you should and shouldn't do. I hope you could understand what I'm trying to say here, English is not my native language and describing geometrical shapes and such is hard at times.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
really like it so far. only criticism is the power node idea (which is genius) is also a bit obvious, but then again I support keeping the idea because if the map turns out really well, someone could just do something custom to replace it... if anyone cares one tenth as much as me, that is
Comments
I have been working real hard on it over the past weeks and I will be looking forward to all of your critiques as I want to make this map as fun as possible for the community.
I have been working real hard on it over the past weeks and I will be looking forward to all of your critiques as I want to make this map as fun as possible for the community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looking forward to seeing it.
ns2_x7 is based off of the 5 Tech/7 RT -Spread Offense layout in the mapping guidelines. An extra thing to note is that I am crafting the vent system and the hallways in this map with skulks in mind. My goal is to have Marines be very wary when they are going to venture down a hallway. They have high ceilings with plenty of shadow and pipe work. There isn't a lot of room to jump around in my hallways, but if something changes game-wise I made them easy to expand. I will be posting an example of my vent/hallway system later on. Anyway I will quit yapping, here you go.
Layout:
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Layout1-2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The Bridge: Marine Start #1
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic78.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The Bridge: Marine Start #2
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic79.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The Bridge: Marine Start #3
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic80.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What? Marines in vents? Unthinkable.
Anyway, the bridge looks... too big, too empty.
I think most of the space looks very wasted, it looks more like a hanger for large aircraft or lots of vehicles.
how ranged combat plays out for both teams when attack/defending in either one.
By the way did you make that skybox?
how ranged combat plays out for both teams when attack/defending in either one.
By the way did you make that skybox?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish I had. I used a free program called spacescape. That was one of the pre made files. I just changed the color and adjusted the brightness and contrast. Check it out they had some other pre made ones that I didn't look at yet.
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic82.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also the ceiling and walls are a little 'flat', try and break up the ceiling a bit by adding girders or anything to make it look more attractive and less bland, for the moment i imagine it's not complete but other than that the marine spawn is looking fairly good, nice an open, good for the marines to take advantage of their ranged weapons.
But yeah, add a few more lights to brighten it up since from the looks of things it's all mostly a light shade of blue which isn't bad but perhaps a few small red lights to break up the colour a bit or white spot lights.
Oh ok, but I'm guessing you still had to convert the files into .dds format and create a new skybox from the files right?
If so could you message me how you did this? I currently can't select the skybox in the cinematic editor to assign the files to create a new skybox.
#1
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic86.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
#2
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic83.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
#3
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic85.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
#4
<img src="http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/cajunfried/Pic84.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That's actually a marine power node that I blew up to the size of the room. I've just been adding modifications all over it.
It's gimmicky, but it works so well... I realised straight away that it was a power node.
Play other maps where this has been done right (i.e. Tram) and compare to your map, analyze how the props have been placed there and how the textures are aligned to compliment the geometry. It's good to work without lighting as it easily hides problems like that for the untrained eye.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's gimmicky, but it works so well... I realised straight away that it was a power node.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say its closer to genius than gimmicky. If it works, it works. Using something unconventionally contrary to how it was intended is how great discoveries and advancements happen. It kinda reminds of Spore creature creation. All the best creatures used body parts in ways they were not intended.
Hardly genius, inventive use of the marine power node? definetly.
Play other maps where this has been done right (i.e. Tram) and compare to your map, analyze how the props have been placed there and how the textures are aligned to compliment the geometry. It's good to work without lighting as it easily hides problems like that for the untrained eye.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what you mean and I have to admit that I was rushing through this especially since I am brand new to mapping. I'm redesigning the entire map and am going to slow down, reapplying what I have learned so far about the editor. I'm already working on the new bridge(which looks 10 times better so far) and am laying down geometry properly. Hopefully in a month or two I'll have much better screen shots to show. Thanks for the advice everybody.
You're right, the amount of information I gave was hardly enough to help someone who is new to mapping. My bad, I'll try to explain it further with pictures.
<!--quoteo(post=1857669:date=Jul 2 2011, 05:53 PM:name=CajunFried)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CajunFried @ Jul 2 2011, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know what you mean and I have to admit that I was rushing through this especially since I am brand new to mapping. I'm redesigning the entire map and am going to slow down, reapplying what I have learned so far about the editor. I'm already working on the new bridge(which looks 10 times better so far) and am laying down geometry properly. Hopefully in a month or two I'll have much better screen shots to show. Thanks for the advice everybody.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Revisiting previously built environments and applying newly gained experience is a very good way to improve your work as a beginner. Hopefully the following will help you with that:
<img src="http://www.abload.de/img/oneeu2t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1) The texture already has an edge, align it with the edge of the geometry. Ideally trim the edge with more geometry and a different texture, to make it more interesting than just a plain cube (a lot in your screen shots look like cubes, try to get away from that as it is boring for the eye unless portrayed with great detail).
2) Cut an octagon in the wall, trim its edges, make it about 24 - 32 units deep and place the prop in there, it will be more interesting to look at and the prop will no longer look out of place as it does now. Check out <a href="http://mendasp.net/stuff/wip/tisza-wip29.jpg" target="_blank">this picture</a> from mendasps map "tisza" and look at the lower left corner, the terminal. The wall behind it is pushed back a bit so the terminal would not stick out too much and on the floor there is this long yellow/black striped trim creating a transition between wall and floor. Also notice the square vent above the trim, it is pushed into the wall and thanks to the great texture work it looks believable.
3) Here you can apply what you see on the vent of the above linked picture from mendasps map. Don't just place this vent-texture planar to the wall texture, this was done in the 90s when the GPUs couldn't handle enough polygons :)
If you place it planar as you did you have to trim it with other textures, as an example see the vent in the ceiling <a href="http://mendasp.net/stuff/wip/tisza-wip28-2.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>; if you look closely you can see that it's two grates next to each other with another texture around them creating a believable transition. Even better is to shape the geometry to support the vent: Make it stick out a bit or push it in the wall.
I strongly encourage you to study detail work in other maps to get a sense of what you should and shouldn't do. I hope you could understand what I'm trying to say here, English is not my native language and describing geometrical shapes and such is hard at times.