<!--quoteo(post=1862274:date=Jul 21 2011, 06:38 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Jul 21 2011, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I certainly hope that many people who buy NS2 have never played NS1. Let alone played it to its 'full potential.' And for the sake of the people making the game, it would be nice if you did too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The less individual skill you put in a game, the less desirable it becomes. Teamwork is required in every game, the more you push a game to revole purely on team efforts in order to win, the less people will stick around. I am sorry, but as it stands right now, if ns2 gies live roughly the way it is now, as an individual player, evolving in skill will reach it's peak within it's first month. I mean how hard is it to shoot a gun as a marine, no recoil, it notifies you when your hitting your target and movement plays as a zero factor. Why not make it a hybrid like the first one? Individual skill plus teamwork? Why is a players individual skill so frowned upon in nex generation games? Do People really fear losing that bad?
Don't you all remember the days of cs where you constantly tried to Improve as a player in skill mixed with teamwork strats ? It's the whole reason why the game exploded and still has a ridiculous population.
Your all taking this the wrong way, and no I will not say things for the sake of the game developers. Inbelieve they're making a huge mistake. But if all they care about is money and a dying game within a couple of years down the road , like how call of duty presents themselves, by all means, sellout and make your money. It's just sad to see Joe pathetic the industry had become over the last 8 years, all money, no balls and terrible meplay mechanics mixed with amazing visuals and sound, never seen that one before!
Bunnyhop was a terrible mechanic that simply increased Skulk's speed and was easily achieved through scripting.
To make people cry less and add in 'skill' based movement have the NS2.0 skulk base movement speed the same as usual but then have them begin to run faster until they cap out (Mirror's Edge) and can go at a faster than normal run speed until they attack or bump into something thereby making baseline Skulks more moble than any form of marine (exception Jetpack).
Similar properties to Bhop yet not as stupid.
Fellow old school NS1 player out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because calling yourself an old ns1 player in a perect friendly tone makes it all better.
I find this topic both humorous and unnecessary. You'd think this discussion would have gone somewhere the first 100 times it's been brought up. <img src="http://www.dlcore.net/vb/images/smilies/smiley_smug.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As it is now, I honestly don't see the point in duplicate threads. Take it elsewhere.
Bunnyhop was a terrible mechanic that simply increased Skulk's speed and was easily achieved through scripting.
To make people cry less and add in 'skill' based movement have the NS2.0 skulk base movement speed the same as usual but then have them begin to run faster until they cap out (Mirror's Edge) and can go at a faster than normal run speed until they attack or bump into something thereby making baseline Skulks more moble than any form of marine (exception Jetpack).
Similar properties to Bhop yet not as stupid.
Fellow old school NS1 player out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because calling yourself an old ns1 player in a perect friendly tone makes it all better.
<!--quoteo(post=1862204:date=Jul 21 2011, 10:12 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 21 2011, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Real gamers game with Atari 2600 controllers. All the rest of you are noobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Looking over at my pile of controllers, spotting the gearshift type device with the large red button thinking....I totally owned frogger with that thing!
<!--quoteo(post=1862249:date=Jul 21 2011, 10:23 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 21 2011, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it would be sweet to hear about UWE's plan on the xbox at some point. I find it a bit awkward that an indie company with very limited resoucres makes such bold plans on a game already somewhat late. Especially so in NS' case where the gameplay goes both to RTS and fast paced, movement based FPS - both notoriously difficult to implement on consoles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm didn't you get it yet? There are no plans on xbox or any consoles. NS2 is PC exclusive, its just the OP who said something different.
<!--quoteo(post=1862341:date=Jul 22 2011, 08:16 AM:name=wulf 21)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf 21 @ Jul 22 2011, 08:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umm didn't you get it yet? There are no plans on xbox or any consoles. NS2 is PC exclusive, its just the OP who said something different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Either they're pulling off a consistent inside joke or they've got thoughts about the console gameplay too. See their job applications, they still state that there might be move towards consoles after 1.0 (Console experience is a bonus!). They were toying around with controllers even before alpha was out. I've also seen some magazines list xbox as a potential platform.
The whole idea of xbox port feels quite weird at this point, but it seems to be repeating quite consistently when you look at UWE future plans.
sorry, totally missed that XD. But it's still only a somewhat theoretical thought about the future of NS2, I don't believe it is influencing the developement right now.
Just because YOU prefer it doesn't mean everyone else in the world does, most people don't devote their entire miserable lives to gaming, most people want games they can pick up, play, enjoy, then go do something else like go outside or have girlfriends or work at their jobs.
Most people are what is called well rounded human beings, they have other interests outside of playing 10-15 year old games obsessively.
<!--quoteo(post=1862383:date=Jul 22 2011, 04:06 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because YOU prefer it doesn't mean everyone else in the world does, most people don't devote their entire miserable lives to gaming, most people want games they can pick up, play, enjoy, then go do something else like go outside or have girlfriends or work at their jobs.
Most people are what is called well rounded human beings, they have other interests outside of playing 10-15 year old games obsessively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Universal goodness of gratuating, getting girlfriend, getting good job, getting married and getting kids and differating from this would makes you weird is a pathetic belief, you can succeed in many ways or it can be mix of things.
Most of the people miserable anyway, if you cant face the fact you aint the master of the game when you start then perhaps you are not a gamer.
<!--quoteo(post=1862388:date=Jul 23 2011, 12:21 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Jul 23 2011, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Universal goodness of gratuating, getting girlfriend, getting good job, getting married and getting kids and differating from this would makes you weird is a pathetic belief, you can succeed in many ways or it can be mix of things.
Most of the people miserable anyway, if you cant face the fact you aint the master of the game when you start then perhaps you are not a gamer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
chris isnt trying to say that theres a universal goodness etc. the point hes trying to make is that pc elitists to the extreme are narrowminded, selfish and childish in self projecting their own relative universal goodness on others. None of that attitude is constructive.
I think gaming on the pc is best, because of how you got a keyboard and computer mouse. I have yet to play a console with controls with as much precision, flexibility <i>and</i> speed. Add the fact that if you play a game which for some reason benefit of joysticks or other controls (flight simulators), you can always add them to the pc.
I do however understand that consoles have advantages, such as everyone got the same specs in their xbox or wii, so developers wont need to test the game on as many different hardwares, unless they aim for backwards-compatibility, or cross-platform. But I can never stand playing a fps on consoles, its not accurate, I take ages just to turn 180 degrees, and most games use an autoaiming mechanism, so I dont have to aim myself (and sometimes it bugs and work through walls). Maybe when consoles understand that they should assume players use mouse+keyboard as default control, I might start like fps on consoles.
Yeah it's not universally good to do those, it's just not at all normal to devote so much time to playing games.
If gaming is that important to you you have a rather serious problem with lack of perspective.
I did a degree in video games and one of the major things that all my lecturers said was 'do other things outside of gaming'. Having such a narrow field of interest makes you a pretty bad game developer, as development draws from a great many things in life. You need other interests for inspiration and perhaps most importantly, you need a wide understanding of the world in order to be able to make games which appeal to most of the people in the world.
The world at large has moved on from the games of 15 years ago, hell the world at large has moved on from games in general, most adults don't play games, making games which appeal solely to the basement dwelling 20something who obsesses over quake 3 is not a profitable endeavour.
<!--quoteo(post=1862344:date=Jul 22 2011, 08:32 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 22 2011, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Either they're pulling off a consistent inside joke or they've got thoughts about the console gameplay too. See their job applications, they still state that there might be move towards consoles after 1.0 (Console experience is a bonus!). They were toying around with controllers even before alpha was out. I've also seen some magazines list xbox as a potential platform.
The whole idea of xbox port feels quite weird at this point, but it seems to be repeating quite consistently when you look at UWE future plans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any game company who wants to be successful would be silly to completely rule out any potential port of their game to a console, these days. It is also hard to get investment funding if you don't show that you are thinking of ways to broaden the playerbase of your game. If NS2 is a success, then at some point down the road we may look into the feasibility of investing the time and the resources into a console.
However, at this stage, its still pretty far from our minds, and we aren't making any gameplay decisions with that in mind. First and foremost we are developing NS2 to be a great PC game.
<!--quoteo(post=1862402:date=Jul 22 2011, 08:59 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 08:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->most adults don't play games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't true any longer in many regions (in every region I could find data on), you know that right? This industry didn't get as large as it has just on children.
<!--quoteo(post=1862402:date=Jul 22 2011, 05:59 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The world at large has moved on from the games of 15 years ago, hell the world at large has moved on from games in general, most adults don't play games, making games which appeal solely to the basement dwelling 20something who obsesses over quake 3 is not a profitable endeavour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Delusion that the kids have developed different taste in 10-15 years is absurd, the game industries have indeed changed and instead of multiple indies developing different <b>gameplays</b>, we have couple big companies reskinning games and selling them through superior advertisements/scale and brands.
I would not compare quake and NS although they both have skill-based movement system and both were success. NS2 is more closer to TF2 where they threw in some waste/situational classes with some silly items / achievements to please the casual bunch and added skillful movement styles for the rest.
<!--quoteo(post=1862409:date=Jul 22 2011, 06:04 PM:name=Kurrine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kurrine @ Jul 22 2011, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't true any longer in many regions (in every region I could find data on), you know that right? This industry didn't get as large as it has just on children.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No actually I think it's entirely true, most of the adults I know don't play video games, they have other things to do with their lives instead, some of them play maybe once or twice a year at social gatherings but I'm the only person I know who has any real interest in gaming beyond maybe owning a DS and the occasional social event.
Console gaming is popular among teens, PC gaming is popular among some of the console market and some people outside it, but most people aren't interested in games, it is a very small part of the world, however much it may seem otherwise to someone who is interested in it.
If people are interested in them it's generally things like the DS which is portable and so you can use it on a bus or something, or it's something like the wii which is excellent for social games, because that fits in with most people's balanced and social lives.
<!--quoteo(post=1862411:date=Jul 22 2011, 06:19 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Jul 22 2011, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Delusion that the kids have developed different taste in 10-15 years is absurd, the game industries have indeed changed and instead of multiple indies developing different <b>gameplays</b>, we have couple big companies reskinning games and selling them through superior advertisements/scale and brands.
I would not compare quake and NS although they both have skill-based movement system and both were success. NS2 is more closer to TF2 where they threw in some waste/situational classes with some silly items / achievements to please the casual bunch and added skillful movement styles for the rest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kids haven't developed different tastes, when I was growing up most people didn't play games then either, most people played sports or with other kids.
The difference is, the market has expanded due to what is usually called 'consolisation'. The casual market didn't really exist back when, the reason most people nowadays like throwaway games is because most gamers nowadays are casual gamers, they don't want games to spend hundreds of hours on to 100% complete it, they want something they can play for a while with their friends (which again, is a new thing, multiplayer gaming wasn't possible when I was growing up) and just enjoy, without putting much effort in.
Playing halo over xbox live with friends is going to be far more appealing to most people than playing some difficult game that most of their friends don't own because it isn't well advertised and it only runs on PC which most of their friends don't have.
There's a reason console shooters have autoaim and inaccurate guns and kill people instantly when you shoot them, because if they don't do that they're terrible, shooters don't work well on a console if you build them like PC shooters, so you adapt them to work on a console or better yet, build a console shooter, which is obviously going to be infinitely more playable than a bad console port of a PC game.
<!--quoteo(post=1862403:date=Jul 22 2011, 12:00 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 22 2011, 12:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any game company who wants to be successful would be silly to completely rule out any potential port of their game to a console, these days. It is also hard to get investment funding if you don't show that you are thinking of ways to broaden the playerbase of your game. If NS2 is a success, then at some point down the road we may look into the feasibility of investing the time and the resources into a console.
However, at this stage, its still pretty far from our minds, and we aren't making any gameplay decisions with that in mind. First and foremost we are developing NS2 to be a great PC game.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a relief to hear, then why do you guys neglect Bunnyhopping so much all of a sudden? When you guys first started this project way back, you mentioned to us all that you were going to implement bunnyhop on skulks at least. Why is it in most game directors minds now a days to remove skill based features within nex generation games?
Like I am sitting in ventrilo with a group of buddies I have been playing video games with for a very long time. I say there is about 40-50 of us and we bring in new "hardcore gamers" daily and everyone is always saying, what has happened to PC gaming? There are no good games, especially in the fps realm. Skill is always removed, graphics are always #1 priority and the gameplay mechanics are revolutionary anymore. It's like Graphics come first and "feel and movement" is always the second thought. There is honestly a massive drought in the gaming industry right now for skill based fps that could revolutionize the industry again, but nobody wants to do it.
Call of Duty - this game is the epitome of what skill based gamers cannot stand Battlefield Bad Company 2 - Can't sprint strafe, prone and it's more of a mmo style fps then competitive. Counter-Strike 1.6 - 10 year old game that everyone always and still comes back to, because the industry is so pathetic.
All I am asking is for a Hybrid, or for you to at least consider it. I mean, how much skill do you honeslty think is involved in a fade by clicking in to ghost mode and then walking around and popping back out? There is no learning curve, except memorizing the maps, which comes naturally.
Watch this video of moto from Team 3D at CPL for CS 1.6 - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE</a> - He discusses the problems with the industry that is still ongoing to this day.
I think unknownworlds is a great company, I think so far you guys have done a great job, which is why I am here right now, but there are a few things that I see happening that I never thought in my mind you guys would ever do, sell out, but it's happening, right now and it's become disappointing in my eyes and the eyes of many other gamers I have been testing NS2 out with.
Anyways, good luck with your project, all the best regardless of the outcome.
<!--quoteo(post=1862428:date=Jul 22 2011, 08:13 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No actually I think it's entirely true, most of the adults I know don't play video games, they have other things to do with their lives instead, some of them play maybe once or twice a year at social gatherings but I'm the only person I know who has any real interest in gaming beyond maybe owning a DS and the occasional social event.
Console gaming is popular among teens, PC gaming is popular among some of the console market and some people outside it, but most people aren't interested in games, it is a very small part of the world, however much it may seem otherwise to someone who is interested in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You may want to google the "average age of gamers", because there has actually been made several surveys on this subject. Believe it or not, but this age is actually around 30-35 years of age, depending on which survey you look at of course.
<!--quoteo(post=1862431:date=Jul 22 2011, 07:25 PM:name=Aezay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aezay @ Jul 22 2011, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You may want to google the "average age of gamers", because there has actually been made several surveys on this subject. Believe it or not, but this age is actually around 30-35 years of age, depending on which survey you look at of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find that difficult to believe, it certainly isn't what I and everyone else came up with at university.
What we all got was that most consoles are aimed at late teens to early 20s and part of the reason the wii and ds are so popular is precisely because they target casual gamers with weird and different kinds of games, most of them rather superficial but incredibly easy to pick up and play, thus making them ideal for people who aren't really gamers and don't have much experience with videogames. Things like motion control are good because they give you a very simple kind of interface which most people can learn, and more importantly find interesting to learn.
I suppose if you ask 'have you ever played a videogame' you might get 30 to 35, but if you're talking about the kind of ages who buy most of the games in the world and who own the consoles other than the wii and those who play PC games and shooters especially, you're probably looking at 18-22.
It's funny reading the thread title and realising that you could accurately rephrase it as 'NS2 appealing to most people who play games'.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1862321:date=Jul 21 2011, 11:45 PM:name=Slithers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slithers @ Jul 21 2011, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your all taking this the wrong way, and no I will not say things for the sake of the game developers. Inbelieve they're making a huge mistake. But if all they care about is money and a dying game within a couple of years down the road , like how call of duty presents themselves, by all means, sellout and make your money. It's just sad to see Joe pathetic the industry had become over the last 8 years, all money, no balls and terrible meplay mechanics mixed with amazing visuals and sound, never seen that one before!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
English must not be your first language? either way, just so you know, its forum rules to respectful, i believe. plus, there's really no reason not to be, you can get across your point without the insults (as you recently have demonstrated after a dev responded in this thread..) so why be a ######? its not needed or welcomed. you care, i care, they care.. thats why we're here. so just drop the witch hunt, man. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=17" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...hp?showforum=17</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1862428:date=Jul 22 2011, 11:13 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No actually I think it's entirely true, most of the adults I know don't play video games, they have other things to do with their lives instead, some of them play maybe once or twice a year at social gatherings but I'm the only person I know who has any real interest in gaming beyond maybe owning a DS and the occasional social event.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ::facepalm:: <!--quoteo(post=1862432:date=Jul 22 2011, 11:26 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find that difficult to believe, it certainly isn't what I and everyone else came up with at university. What we all got was that most consoles are aimed at late teens to early 20s<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> your own experience, observation, or opinion does not reflect the rest of the world's gathered statistics, chris. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1862444:date=Jul 22 2011, 08:40 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 22 2011, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->English must not be your first language? either way, just so you know, its forum rules to respectful, i believe. plus, there's really no reason not to be, you can get across your point without the insults (as you recently have demonstrated after a dev responded in this thread..) so why be a ######? its not needed or welcomed. you care, i care, they care.. thats why we're here. so just drop the witch hunt, man. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=17" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...hp?showforum=17</a>
::facepalm::
your own experience, observation, or opinion does not reflect the rest of the world's gathered statistics, chris. :)
May I direct your attention for a short momend to the today's Birthdays? <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->garandhero(24), TikiTorchBob(26), Zergling(28), MedaWhor3-x(27), Random_Clicking(22), LaughinMan(30), Paran0id(26), jew(22), GammaFive(21), wizlama(21), SackZement(20), kurilchik(34), FlileRifs(48), Unonegiorsemo(38), AlisaSU(33), IeptBarakat(21), Shrinker(24), Mayara(28), georgeJ(31), georgesmit(23), megathrone(25)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And the list is like this nearly every day.
The most gamers here are 20+ and some of them are 40+ (I even hang out with two of them). NS2 just isn't an ADHD-game for Kids with a console like CoD is. <i>(Don't get me wrong, CoD is fun, but it's like a railshooter constantly waving its arms around (or blowing ###### up) to keep the attention. And I know that CoD is only for adults.. but face it.. the main audience for that game is kids).</i> The main audience of NS2 is grown people. So there is no need to discuss this, I think.
Let's just hope that the game will be a finacial success so that uwe can keep on going with patches, map packs (and I can't imagine that uwe will do the CoD-style as Raneman described) and maybe a new project ;-)
I think it makes a lot of sense, assuming that most gaming 37 year olds are parents.
And I would think that you will get different results depending on what you think of as a gamer. Is it someone who own a console, or maybe someone who played a game the lat x time units? Or maybe one who actually take part of gaming communities, read forums and other things that is simply around gaming.
I imagine quite a lot of people have played a game at some point, and probably quite a few people own mobile gaming devices like iphones and DSs, which is good, hell my grandmother owns a DS, but those sorts of folks aren't likely to be interested in a PC shooter.
My point is that shooters, especially PC shooters of 15 years ago, are not likely to appeal to very many people at all.
"The average game player is 37 years old and has been playing games for 12 years."
make sense when the same site says:
"Parents are present when games are purchased or rented 91 percent of the time."
I question the veracity of your sources.
Also it wasn't personal experience, it was research and stuff we got from lecturers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I question the veracity of yours. Where are YOUR sources? So far two have been provided for them, yet there isn't any evidence for the age demographic that you claim it to be. A <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+age+of+gamers" target="_blank">quick Google search</a> seems to support 30-37 for this day and age. Dismissal of evidence isn't a refutation.
Why sell games like Deus Ex or Fallout or Alice or Demon's Souls or Uncharted or Catherine or hundreds of other Mature Blockbuster games when other gamers of a lesser age and attention span can just play Halo 3 or Call of Duty? It's because they're <b>selling to their demographic</b>. The fact that these games exist and make a profit over millions spent in production values proves that there's more than enough money to be had from that tiny minority you're making it out to be. Gaming's been out for a few of decades now, and <b>gamers have been getting older</b>. If you started out with the first arcade games, many people would actually be in their late 40s by now.
Comments
The less individual skill you put in a game, the less desirable it becomes. Teamwork is required in every game, the more you push a game to revole purely on team efforts in order to win, the less people will stick around. I am sorry, but as it stands right now, if ns2 gies live roughly the way it is now, as an individual player, evolving in skill will reach it's peak within it's first month. I mean how hard is it to shoot a gun as a marine, no recoil, it notifies you when your hitting your target and movement plays as a zero factor. Why not make it a hybrid like the first one? Individual skill plus teamwork? Why is a players individual skill so frowned upon in nex generation games? Do People really fear losing that bad?
Don't you all remember the days of cs where you constantly tried to Improve as a player in skill mixed with teamwork strats ? It's the whole reason why the game exploded and still has a ridiculous population.
Your all taking this the wrong way, and no I will not say things for the sake of the game developers. Inbelieve they're making a huge mistake. But if all they care about is money and a dying game within a couple of years down the road , like how call of duty presents themselves, by all means, sellout and make your money. It's just sad to see Joe pathetic the industry had become over the last 8 years, all money, no balls and terrible meplay mechanics mixed with amazing visuals and sound, never seen that one before!
Fellow old school NS1 player here.
Bunnyhop was a terrible mechanic that simply increased Skulk's speed and was easily achieved through scripting.
To make people cry less and add in 'skill' based movement have the NS2.0 skulk base movement speed the same as usual but then have them begin to run faster until they cap out (Mirror's Edge) and can go at a faster than normal run speed until they attack or bump into something thereby making baseline Skulks more moble than any form of marine (exception Jetpack).
Similar properties to Bhop yet not as stupid.
Fellow old school NS1 player out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because calling yourself an old ns1 player in a perect friendly tone makes it all better.
As it is now, I honestly don't see the point in duplicate threads. Take it elsewhere.
Fellow old school NS1 player here.
Bunnyhop was a terrible mechanic that simply increased Skulk's speed and was easily achieved through scripting.
To make people cry less and add in 'skill' based movement have the NS2.0 skulk base movement speed the same as usual but then have them begin to run faster until they cap out (Mirror's Edge) and can go at a faster than normal run speed until they attack or bump into something thereby making baseline Skulks more moble than any form of marine (exception Jetpack).
Similar properties to Bhop yet not as stupid.
Fellow old school NS1 player out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because calling yourself an old ns1 player in a perect friendly tone makes it all better.
Looking over at my pile of controllers, spotting the gearshift type device with the large red button thinking....I totally owned frogger with that thing!
Umm didn't you get it yet? There are no plans on xbox or any consoles. NS2 is PC exclusive, its just the OP who said something different.
Either they're pulling off a consistent inside joke or they've got thoughts about the console gameplay too. See their job applications, they still state that there might be move towards consoles after 1.0 (Console experience is a bonus!). They were toying around with controllers even before alpha was out. I've also seen some magazines list xbox as a potential platform.
The whole idea of xbox port feels quite weird at this point, but it seems to be repeating quite consistently when you look at UWE future plans.
Despite the fact that I only play on PC.
Just because YOU prefer it doesn't mean everyone else in the world does, most people don't devote their entire miserable lives to gaming, most people want games they can pick up, play, enjoy, then go do something else like go outside or have girlfriends or work at their jobs.
Most people are what is called well rounded human beings, they have other interests outside of playing 10-15 year old games obsessively.
Most people are what is called well rounded human beings, they have other interests outside of playing 10-15 year old games obsessively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Universal goodness of gratuating, getting girlfriend, getting good job, getting married and getting kids and differating from this would makes you weird is a pathetic belief, you can succeed in many ways or it can be mix of things.
Most of the people miserable anyway, if you cant face the fact you aint the master of the game when you start then perhaps you are not a gamer.
Most of the people miserable anyway, if you cant face the fact you aint the master of the game when you start then perhaps you are not a gamer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
chris isnt trying to say that theres a universal goodness etc. the point hes trying to make is that pc elitists to the extreme are narrowminded, selfish and childish in self projecting their own relative universal goodness on others. None of that attitude is constructive.
I do however understand that consoles have advantages, such as everyone got the same specs in their xbox or wii, so developers wont need to test the game on as many different hardwares, unless they aim for backwards-compatibility, or cross-platform.
But I can never stand playing a fps on consoles, its not accurate, I take ages just to turn 180 degrees, and most games use an autoaiming mechanism, so I dont have to aim myself (and sometimes it bugs and work through walls). Maybe when consoles understand that they should assume players use mouse+keyboard as default control, I might start like fps on consoles.
If gaming is that important to you you have a rather serious problem with lack of perspective.
I did a degree in video games and one of the major things that all my lecturers said was 'do other things outside of gaming'. Having such a narrow field of interest makes you a pretty bad game developer, as development draws from a great many things in life. You need other interests for inspiration and perhaps most importantly, you need a wide understanding of the world in order to be able to make games which appeal to most of the people in the world.
The world at large has moved on from the games of 15 years ago, hell the world at large has moved on from games in general, most adults don't play games, making games which appeal solely to the basement dwelling 20something who obsesses over quake 3 is not a profitable endeavour.
The whole idea of xbox port feels quite weird at this point, but it seems to be repeating quite consistently when you look at UWE future plans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any game company who wants to be successful would be silly to completely rule out any potential port of their game to a console, these days. It is also hard to get investment funding if you don't show that you are thinking of ways to broaden the playerbase of your game. If NS2 is a success, then at some point down the road we may look into the feasibility of investing the time and the resources into a console.
However, at this stage, its still pretty far from our minds, and we aren't making any gameplay decisions with that in mind. First and foremost we are developing NS2 to be a great PC game.
--Cory
This isn't true any longer in many regions (in every region I could find data on), you know that right? This industry didn't get as large as it has just on children.
Delusion that the kids have developed different taste in 10-15 years is absurd, the game industries have indeed changed and instead of multiple indies developing different <b>gameplays</b>, we have couple big companies reskinning games and selling them through superior advertisements/scale and brands.
I would not compare quake and NS although they both have skill-based movement system and both were success. NS2 is more closer to TF2 where they threw in some waste/situational classes with some silly items / achievements to please the casual bunch and added skillful movement styles for the rest.
No actually I think it's entirely true, most of the adults I know don't play video games, they have other things to do with their lives instead, some of them play maybe once or twice a year at social gatherings but I'm the only person I know who has any real interest in gaming beyond maybe owning a DS and the occasional social event.
Console gaming is popular among teens, PC gaming is popular among some of the console market and some people outside it, but most people aren't interested in games, it is a very small part of the world, however much it may seem otherwise to someone who is interested in it.
If people are interested in them it's generally things like the DS which is portable and so you can use it on a bus or something, or it's something like the wii which is excellent for social games, because that fits in with most people's balanced and social lives.
I would not compare quake and NS although they both have skill-based movement system and both were success. NS2 is more closer to TF2 where they threw in some waste/situational classes with some silly items / achievements to please the casual bunch and added skillful movement styles for the rest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kids haven't developed different tastes, when I was growing up most people didn't play games then either, most people played sports or with other kids.
The difference is, the market has expanded due to what is usually called 'consolisation'. The casual market didn't really exist back when, the reason most people nowadays like throwaway games is because most gamers nowadays are casual gamers, they don't want games to spend hundreds of hours on to 100% complete it, they want something they can play for a while with their friends (which again, is a new thing, multiplayer gaming wasn't possible when I was growing up) and just enjoy, without putting much effort in.
Playing halo over xbox live with friends is going to be far more appealing to most people than playing some difficult game that most of their friends don't own because it isn't well advertised and it only runs on PC which most of their friends don't have.
There's a reason console shooters have autoaim and inaccurate guns and kill people instantly when you shoot them, because if they don't do that they're terrible, shooters don't work well on a console if you build them like PC shooters, so you adapt them to work on a console or better yet, build a console shooter, which is obviously going to be infinitely more playable than a bad console port of a PC game.
However, at this stage, its still pretty far from our minds, and we aren't making any gameplay decisions with that in mind. First and foremost we are developing NS2 to be a great PC game.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a relief to hear, then why do you guys neglect Bunnyhopping so much all of a sudden? When you guys first started this project way back, you mentioned to us all that you were going to implement bunnyhop on skulks at least. Why is it in most game directors minds now a days to remove skill based features within nex generation games?
Like I am sitting in ventrilo with a group of buddies I have been playing video games with for a very long time. I say there is about 40-50 of us and we bring in new "hardcore gamers" daily and everyone is always saying, what has happened to PC gaming? There are no good games, especially in the fps realm. Skill is always removed, graphics are always #1 priority and the gameplay mechanics are revolutionary anymore. It's like Graphics come first and "feel and movement" is always the second thought. There is honestly a massive drought in the gaming industry right now for skill based fps that could revolutionize the industry again, but nobody wants to do it.
Call of Duty - this game is the epitome of what skill based gamers cannot stand
Battlefield Bad Company 2 - Can't sprint strafe, prone and it's more of a mmo style fps then competitive.
Counter-Strike 1.6 - 10 year old game that everyone always and still comes back to, because the industry is so pathetic.
All I am asking is for a Hybrid, or for you to at least consider it. I mean, how much skill do you honeslty think is involved in a fade by clicking in to ghost mode and then walking around and popping back out? There is no learning curve, except memorizing the maps, which comes naturally.
Watch this video of moto from Team 3D at CPL for CS 1.6 - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE</a> - He discusses the problems with the industry that is still ongoing to this day.
I think unknownworlds is a great company, I think so far you guys have done a great job, which is why I am here right now, but there are a few things that I see happening that I never thought in my mind you guys would ever do, sell out, but it's happening, right now and it's become disappointing in my eyes and the eyes of many other gamers I have been testing NS2 out with.
Anyways, good luck with your project, all the best regardless of the outcome.
Console gaming is popular among teens, PC gaming is popular among some of the console market and some people outside it, but most people aren't interested in games, it is a very small part of the world, however much it may seem otherwise to someone who is interested in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You may want to google the "average age of gamers", because there has actually been made several surveys on this subject. Believe it or not, but this age is actually around 30-35 years of age, depending on which survey you look at of course.
I find that difficult to believe, it certainly isn't what I and everyone else came up with at university.
What we all got was that most consoles are aimed at late teens to early 20s and part of the reason the wii and ds are so popular is precisely because they target casual gamers with weird and different kinds of games, most of them rather superficial but incredibly easy to pick up and play, thus making them ideal for people who aren't really gamers and don't have much experience with videogames. Things like motion control are good because they give you a very simple kind of interface which most people can learn, and more importantly find interesting to learn.
I suppose if you ask 'have you ever played a videogame' you might get 30 to 35, but if you're talking about the kind of ages who buy most of the games in the world and who own the consoles other than the wii and those who play PC games and shooters especially, you're probably looking at 18-22.
It's funny reading the thread title and realising that you could accurately rephrase it as 'NS2 appealing to most people who play games'.
English must not be your first language?
either way, just so you know, its forum rules to respectful, i believe. plus, there's really no reason not to be, you can get across your point without the insults (as you recently have demonstrated after a dev responded in this thread..) so why be a ######? its not needed or welcomed. you care, i care, they care.. thats why we're here. so just drop the witch hunt, man.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=17" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...hp?showforum=17</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1862428:date=Jul 22 2011, 11:13 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No actually I think it's entirely true, most of the adults I know don't play video games, they have other things to do with their lives instead, some of them play maybe once or twice a year at social gatherings but I'm the only person I know who has any real interest in gaming beyond maybe owning a DS and the occasional social event.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
::facepalm::
<!--quoteo(post=1862432:date=Jul 22 2011, 11:26 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 22 2011, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find that difficult to believe, it certainly isn't what I and everyone else came up with at university.
What we all got was that most consoles are aimed at late teens to early 20s<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
your own experience, observation, or opinion does not reflect the rest of the world's gathered statistics, chris. :)
<a href="http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp" target="_blank">http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp</a>
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32463904/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/study-average-gamer-fat-bummed/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32463904/ns/te...mer-fat-bummed/</a>
<a href="http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/" target="_blank">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/</a>
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-...ographics_x.htm</a>
KILL 5 ALIENS AS A MARINE, GET AN AIRSTRIKE!
either way, just so you know, its forum rules to respectful, i believe. plus, there's really no reason not to be, you can get across your point without the insults (as you recently have demonstrated after a dev responded in this thread..) so why be a ######? its not needed or welcomed. you care, i care, they care.. thats why we're here. so just drop the witch hunt, man.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=17" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...hp?showforum=17</a>
::facepalm::
your own experience, observation, or opinion does not reflect the rest of the world's gathered statistics, chris. :)
<a href="http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp" target="_blank">http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp</a>
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32463904/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/study-average-gamer-fat-bummed/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32463904/ns/te...mer-fat-bummed/</a>
<a href="http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/" target="_blank">http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/</a>
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-...ographics_x.htm</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How does
"The average game player is 37 years old and has been playing games for 12 years."
make sense when the same site says:
"Parents are present when games are purchased or rented 91 percent of the time."
I question the veracity of your sources.
Also it wasn't personal experience, it was research and stuff we got from lecturers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->garandhero(24), TikiTorchBob(26), Zergling(28), MedaWhor3-x(27), Random_Clicking(22), LaughinMan(30), Paran0id(26), jew(22), GammaFive(21), wizlama(21), SackZement(20), kurilchik(34), FlileRifs(48), Unonegiorsemo(38), AlisaSU(33), IeptBarakat(21), Shrinker(24), Mayara(28), georgeJ(31), georgesmit(23), megathrone(25)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the list is like this nearly every day.
The most gamers here are 20+ and some of them are 40+ (I even hang out with two of them).
NS2 just isn't an ADHD-game for Kids with a console like CoD is.
<i>(Don't get me wrong, CoD is fun, but it's like a railshooter constantly waving its arms around (or blowing ###### up) to keep the attention. And I know that CoD is only for adults.. but face it.. the main audience for that game is kids).</i>
The main audience of NS2 is grown people.
So there is no need to discuss this, I think.
Let's just hope that the game will be a finacial success so that uwe can keep on going with patches, map packs (and I can't imagine that uwe will do the CoD-style as Raneman described) and maybe a new project ;-)
What exactly do you expect? It to be representitive of the general population?
And I would think that you will get different results depending on what you think of as a gamer. Is it someone who own a console, or maybe someone who played a game the lat x time units?
Or maybe one who actually take part of gaming communities, read forums and other things that is simply around gaming.
My point is that shooters, especially PC shooters of 15 years ago, are not likely to appeal to very many people at all.
"The average game player is 37 years old and has been playing games for 12 years."
make sense when the same site says:
"Parents are present when games are purchased or rented 91 percent of the time."
I question the veracity of your sources.
Also it wasn't personal experience, it was research and stuff we got from lecturers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I question the veracity of yours. Where are YOUR sources? So far two have been provided for them, yet there isn't any evidence for the age demographic that you claim it to be. A <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+age+of+gamers" target="_blank">quick Google search</a> seems to support 30-37 for this day and age. Dismissal of evidence isn't a refutation.
Why sell games like Deus Ex or Fallout or Alice or Demon's Souls or Uncharted or Catherine or hundreds of other Mature Blockbuster games when other gamers of a lesser age and attention span can just play Halo 3 or Call of Duty? It's because they're <b>selling to their demographic</b>. The fact that these games exist and make a profit over millions spent in production values proves that there's more than enough money to be had from that tiny minority you're making it out to be. Gaming's been out for a few of decades now, and <b>gamers have been getting older</b>. If you started out with the first arcade games, many people would actually be in their late 40s by now.