SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
dePara was also complaining about that already :D
i want to do it like that in the future: I will mark 1 version as "recommended". this one should be stable and enjoyable to play. the frequent stuff will be marked as preview, so people who would like to have a first glance on new stuff can create a local server (or do whatever they want)
in addition to that, i will try to figure out something to make mod updating automatic for admins. but i make no promises here now, just saying that i will try to find a fast and easy way to deal with that (whatever it will be, it will be windows based since ns2 is anyway win application). the first thing that comes to my mind now is dropbox ^^ but i don't know about permissions or whats possible, another idea would be utilizing raknet for that and write a tool that shuts down your server and launcher it after updating is completed. we will see
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
there is a small bug in that version: redemption is not working if it isn't upgraded as the last upgrade without using other stuff (like changing life-form or other upgrades) nothing game-breaking. it will be fixed next version
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited August 2011
i made now a second upgrade for the crag and fixed redemption:
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->endurance<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> increases the health / armor by +10 and +10%
it's purpose is actually the same as carapace, but how it achieves it is different. so, i use this upgrade now instead of carapace. it's also less confusing for people when they see that those numbers in the bottom left of their screen are higher than before, instead of some unclear change of how damage is computated in the background. it scales not as well with armor as carapace would, but it does it at least a little bit :)
also changed the gorge from 150 / 50 to 160 / 60 (he seemed to die a little bit too fast)
I think I will wait with the next patch until 185 is released. I already made the mod partially compatible with 185's changes, so i have to revert those stuff everytime i release for 184 :/
have the splash to be bigger then that, and the sound of it maybe needs to change but another then that, wonderful work.
what's the radius of this thing, and damage? same as ns1?
<!--quoteo(post=1870588:date=Aug 22 2011, 07:31 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 22 2011, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As always, this is an excellent mod. We'd like to host this on one of our servers, but there are two things holding us back.
1) Lack of auto-download. There won't be that many players because they would have to come here to download it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the real problem. you cannot download maps, either. So people end up playing same maps every round, and new maps require players to download themselves. same thing with this.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited August 2011
I don't know the numbers from ns1, but it should be similar. 2 xenocide close range kill a standard marine. the damage is 200 (GL is 160~) and radius is about the same, but it's normal damage (which means you cannot break structures like the GL or bilebomb)
and about the sound, i cannot do much. I'm not very talented in making new sounds :) i think it would be no problem to create a custom sound library to use for that mod, but it's easier for now to use what is already present (and also keeps the mod size low)
edit: but i will improve the explosion cinematic, making the "guts" spread around more and increase the shockwave effect. currently it's hard to guess how big the range is :)
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1870738:date=Aug 23 2011, 12:04 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 23 2011, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870738"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure xenocide in NS1 killed a light armor marine in one hit (at close range) unless he had armor 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it did not, maybe when the arms lab is down or the room was filled with spores as well (= marines already injured). it's no problem to make it stronger, but better to keep it at "only" 200 damage for now and see how useful it really is. it's anyway better than leaping in the marine base, get off only 1 bite and die :)
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
i made now several missing icons for the alien buy / build menu (some of them may suck :D ) and gave the mature crag a direct heal ability: click the abillty -> click on a structure, alien to give it a hot. Heal 20 HP per second during 5 seconds (those values are subject to change)
wow, I really think this should be added to the play4dead.com/ns2/. it almost seems like UWE is waiting for you to implement things to implement them as well...
you are insanely fast and I'm surprised you aren't a developer for UWE by now... great work my friend.
I just love the jetpack... It is so much fun flying around... But I think you have too much control with it. I mean it would be better to reduce the air-friction slightly so you can't make 180° turns that easy. But anyways, great implementation!
Can you also please include the pathing system of the latest ns2 build? You seem to be using the broken system of build182 (or 181/183, don't know)... Eg, you can't send a mac on summit to the resource node at ventilation. And sometimes moving units get stuck while hitting another unit :/
I also like the speed gain for the skulk after jumping off a wall and I think it is a good idea to prevent spamming this speed-gain-mechanic with the delay you added to this. Good job!
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1870849:date=Aug 24 2011, 03:47 AM:name=basti1337)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basti1337 @ Aug 24 2011, 03:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Can you also please include the pathing system of the latest ns2 build? You seem to be using the broken system of build182 (or 181/183, don't know)... Eg, you can't send a mac on summit to the resource node at ventilation. And sometimes moving units get stuck while hitting another unit :/ ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, it should be actually up to date (unless I didn't miss something). I will take a look into that
Something I would really love to see in your mod and in vanilla NS2 itself is a new alt-attack ( gorge for example ) or a alien-commander ability to temporary infect power nodes and power packs to turn off the power for a couple of time.
It will add a new gameplay element for both teams :)
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Skulk wall jump speed-up is a little OP. There needs to be a limit on the speed you can gain by doing this. You can go way too fast after a while, especially in vents.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
there is a limit, i can reduce that
and, i couldn't find anything that's out of date compared to 184 (pathing). maybe you had an old version of the mod installed before? because i deleted some files and if you still have the old mac.lua there it would explain it :)
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1870904:date=Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM:name=cH40z-Lord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cH40z-Lord @ Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something I would really love to see in your mod and in vanilla NS2 itself is a new alt-attack ( gorge for example ) or a alien-commander ability to temporary infect power nodes and power packs to turn off the power for a couple of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
alt attack for what? :) I made an alt attack for the shotgun already, an gave the alien comm the ability to heal a target (through mature crags). Im not sure if it would be fair if the alien comm could power down all marine buildings. would be better to improve the usability of the whips if you want to participate more in combats as alien commander
<!--quoteo(post=1870904:date=Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM:name=cH40z-Lord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cH40z-Lord @ Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It will add a new gameplay element for both teams :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, i just imagine this: 2 skulks go in marine base, alien comm disables power -> game won. you cannot even beacon anymore or phase back, because there is no power :/
the only thing I don't like about the jetpack in the vid is that it seems infinate, it should be like the ns1 jetpack, you could only fly for a limited time before the pack overheated and you needed to wait a sec for it to cool down, the way it is now if it's a high room, fades/skulks have no chance at all, just hold down space button and fire, or hold down space button and wait till they lose interest and move on.
<!--quoteo(post=1870936:date=Aug 24 2011, 06:20 PM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Aug 24 2011, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only thing I don't like about the jetpack in the vid is that it seems infinate, it should be like the ns1 jetpack, you could only fly for a limited time before the pack overheated and you needed to wait a sec for it to cool down, the way it is now if it's a high room, fades/skulks have no chance at all, just hold down space button and fire, or hold down space button and wait till they lose interest and move on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is a limit... you just dont have an UI for that
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1870941:date=Aug 24 2011, 12:34 PM:name=basti1337)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basti1337 @ Aug 24 2011, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there is a limit... you just dont have an UI for that<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this, but he might be right that the JP has too much "fuel". those numbers are really difficult to tweak. especially because there is an upgrade which makes JP faster and use less fuel. so I want the normal JP be just little bit faster than run speed and more a jump pack, and the upgrade makes it a real jetpack.
reason is to give the marines the option of a jetpack rush. "fast" access to T3, but the real JP is only there when the aliens have at least 2 hives. my vision was that you have those "weak" jetpackers for like 15 - 20 seconds in the 2nd hive before it is finished. if you hold the hive long enough, marines are forced to either retreat and wait for the improved jetpack, or go "all in". well, that's just my vision. numbers are not really balanced currently :)
<!--quoteo(post=1870950:date=Aug 24 2011, 07:04 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Aug 24 2011, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this, but he might be right that the JP has too much "fuel". those numbers are really difficult to tweak. especially because there is an upgrade which makes JP faster and use less fuel. so I want the normal JP be just little bit faster than run speed and more a jump pack, and the upgrade makes it a real jetpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do we need upgrades to get a jps full potential? A weapon + jp costs nearly as much pres as 1fade(if you could carry a minigun potentially even more*)... but fades got everything from start, and dont have special researches for armor proper blink or weapons.
If we start to make specialisation upgrades, we should do it for a lot more things to keep tech even(research times and costs) if you ask me.
* but i guess if we got miniguns ingame - it needs another special upgrade to unlock the minigun research with additional researches like double minigun for exo, or the ability to carry it as jper... :P
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
I reduced with this patch the cost from 25 to 20 p.res (for jetpack). And your argument about the fade: you can have hive 1 fades in this mod :) And you don't have blink (only the mini blink thing). So, those 2 things are pretty comparable to each other, although an unupgraded JP should own a hive 1 fade.
one thing you should consider: the "weak" JP's upgrade requires 40 seconds and cost only 10 t.res. You can then purchase them for 20 p.res and the comm can upgrade them for another 30 t.res (upgrade applies of course to already purchased JPs).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we start to make specialisation upgrades, we should do it for a lot more things to keep tech even(research times and costs) if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114611" target="_blank">Weapon Specific Upgrades</a>
So a mature crag is able to give a packet of healing energy to other structures around the map?
Sounds usefull and would be ten times as cool if the crag would send a wave of energy through the infestation (like the cysts do now) Maybe add a delay too till the energy reaches the target, would also help for balancing.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
currently it works more like the medpacks: you click the ability, click on a target and it receives the healing. there is a visual effect and some sound triggered at your target, but nothing fancy like healing waves traveling over infestation.
I'm currently thinking about changing the fades hive 3 ability: I'm not really convinced my fetch anymore. It also screws balance, since fades are not considered to be JP killers. Twiliteblue and I were discussing a "smoke bomb" like ability. It works like this: since blink is now quite expensive, and the fade has to disengage pretty fast to not put himself into too high danger, we could try to increase the duration he could stay on the target. This smoke bomb ability (we need a cool name btw) would look like this black smoke you see when the fade enters / exits blink mode, but just bigger (2 -3 meters radius) and marines would not be able to see through.
the gameplay i would expect from this: fade has full energy and blinks to a marine who is seperated from his group. there the fade triggers smoke bomb, so other marines will not be able to assist his friend anymore (you will not see anything, so you can only guess and shoot somewhere, or shoot grenades or with FT). Another usage of this ability would be: a group of marines is covering a hallway, and gorges / skulks break under the heavy fire and cannot get through. so the fade simply blinks in, smokebombs and obscures the vision of all marines. now, it's not completely save to enter the hallway, but the marine cannot see you at least.
this ability sounds quite powerful, but it's hive 3 (so it should be) and would fit pretty well to the fade. I just need to do proper cinematics and adjust timings / energy costs to make it work.
what do you guess think about it? (especially in comparison with fetch)
Comments
i want to do it like that in the future: I will mark 1 version as "recommended". this one should be stable and enjoyable to play.
the frequent stuff will be marked as preview, so people who would like to have a first glance on new stuff can create a local server (or do whatever they want)
in addition to that, i will try to figure out something to make mod updating automatic for admins. but i make no promises here now, just saying that i will try to find a fast and easy way to deal with that (whatever it will be, it will be windows based since ns2 is anyway win application). the first thing that comes to my mind now is dropbox ^^ but i don't know about permissions or whats possible, another idea would be utilizing raknet for that and write a tool that shuts down your server and launcher it after updating is completed. we will see
(I guess it will be on Ziegenfarm2 soon...)
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->endurance<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
increases the health / armor by +10 and +10%
it's purpose is actually the same as carapace, but how it achieves it is different. so, i use this upgrade now instead of carapace. it's also less confusing for people when they see that those numbers in the bottom left of their screen are higher than before, instead of some unclear change of how damage is computated in the background. it scales not as well with armor as carapace would, but it does it at least a little bit :)
also changed the gorge from 150 / 50 to 160 / 60 (he seemed to die a little bit too fast)
I think I will wait with the next patch until 185 is released. I already made the mod partially compatible with 185's changes, so i have to revert those stuff everytime i release for 184 :/
have the splash to be bigger then that, and the sound of it maybe needs to change but another then that, wonderful work.
what's the radius of this thing, and damage? same as ns1?
<!--quoteo(post=1870588:date=Aug 22 2011, 07:31 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 22 2011, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As always, this is an excellent mod. We'd like to host this on one of our servers, but there are two things holding us back.
1) Lack of auto-download. There won't be that many players because they would have to come here to download it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the real problem. you cannot download maps, either. So people end up playing same maps every round, and new maps require players to download themselves. same thing with this.
and about the sound, i cannot do much. I'm not very talented in making new sounds :) i think it would be no problem to create a custom sound library to use for that mod, but it's easier for now to use what is already present (and also keeps the mod size low)
edit: but i will improve the explosion cinematic, making the "guts" spread around more and increase the shockwave effect. currently it's hard to guess how big the range is :)
it did not, maybe when the arms lab is down or the room was filled with spores as well (= marines already injured). it's no problem to make it stronger, but better to keep it at "only" 200 damage for now and see how useful it really is. it's anyway better than leaping in the marine base, get off only 1 bite and die :)
you are insanely fast and I'm surprised you aren't a developer for UWE by now... great work my friend.
But I think you have too much control with it. I mean it would be better to reduce the air-friction slightly so you can't make 180° turns that easy. But anyways, great implementation!
Can you also please include the pathing system of the latest ns2 build? You seem to be using the broken system of build182 (or 181/183, don't know)... Eg, you can't send a mac on summit to the resource node at ventilation. And sometimes moving units get stuck while hitting another unit :/
I also like the speed gain for the skulk after jumping off a wall and I think it is a good idea to prevent spamming this speed-gain-mechanic with the delay you added to this. Good job!
Can you also please include the pathing system of the latest ns2 build? You seem to be using the broken system of build182 (or 181/183, don't know)... Eg, you can't send a mac on summit to the resource node at ventilation. And sometimes moving units get stuck while hitting another unit :/
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, it should be actually up to date (unless I didn't miss something). I will take a look into that
It will add a new gameplay element for both teams :)
and, i couldn't find anything that's out of date compared to 184 (pathing). maybe you had an old version of the mod installed before? because i deleted some files and if you still have the old mac.lua there it would explain it :)
alt attack for what? :) I made an alt attack for the shotgun already, an gave the alien comm the ability to heal a target (through mature crags). Im not sure if it would be fair if the alien comm could power down all marine buildings. would be better to improve the usability of the whips if you want to participate more in combats as alien commander
<!--quoteo(post=1870904:date=Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM:name=cH40z-Lord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cH40z-Lord @ Aug 24 2011, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It will add a new gameplay element for both teams :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, i just imagine this: 2 skulks go in marine base, alien comm disables power -> game won. you cannot even beacon anymore or phase back, because there is no power :/
there is a limit... you just dont have an UI for that
this, but he might be right that the JP has too much "fuel". those numbers are really difficult to tweak. especially because there is an upgrade which makes JP faster and use less fuel. so I want the normal JP be just little bit faster than run speed and more a jump pack, and the upgrade makes it a real jetpack.
reason is to give the marines the option of a jetpack rush. "fast" access to T3, but the real JP is only there when the aliens have at least 2 hives. my vision was that you have those "weak" jetpackers for like 15 - 20 seconds in the 2nd hive before it is finished. if you hold the hive long enough, marines are forced to either retreat and wait for the improved jetpack, or go "all in". well, that's just my vision. numbers are not really balanced currently :)
- fixed bugs with redemption and fade
- changed jp flight speed and fuel
- reduced walljump max speed
- fixed some bugs with crag targeted heal
edit: forgot to mention that I added the new version of triad!
Why do we need upgrades to get a jps full potential?
A weapon + jp costs nearly as much pres as 1fade(if you could carry a minigun potentially even more*)... but fades got everything from start, and dont have special researches for armor proper blink or weapons.
If we start to make specialisation upgrades, we should do it for a lot more things to keep tech even(research times and costs) if you ask me.
* but i guess if we got miniguns ingame - it needs another special upgrade to unlock the minigun research with additional researches like double minigun for exo, or the ability to carry it as jper... :P
one thing you should consider: the "weak" JP's upgrade requires 40 seconds and cost only 10 t.res. You can then purchase them for 20 p.res and the comm can upgrade them for another 30 t.res (upgrade applies of course to already purchased JPs).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we start to make specialisation upgrades, we should do it for a lot more things to keep tech even(research times and costs) if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114611" target="_blank">Weapon Specific Upgrades</a>
Sounds usefull and would be ten times as cool if the crag would send a wave of energy through the infestation (like the cysts do now)
Maybe add a delay too till the energy reaches the target, would also help for balancing.
I'm currently thinking about changing the fades hive 3 ability: I'm not really convinced my fetch anymore. It also screws balance, since fades are not considered to be JP killers. Twiliteblue and I were discussing a "smoke bomb" like ability. It works like this: since blink is now quite expensive, and the fade has to disengage pretty fast to not put himself into too high danger, we could try to increase the duration he could stay on the target. This smoke bomb ability (we need a cool name btw) would look like this black smoke you see when the fade enters / exits blink mode, but just bigger (2 -3 meters radius) and marines would not be able to see through.
the gameplay i would expect from this: fade has full energy and blinks to a marine who is seperated from his group. there the fade triggers smoke bomb, so other marines will not be able to assist his friend anymore (you will not see anything, so you can only guess and shoot somewhere, or shoot grenades or with FT). Another usage of this ability would be: a group of marines is covering a hallway, and gorges / skulks break under the heavy fire and cannot get through. so the fade simply blinks in, smokebombs and obscures the vision of all marines. now, it's not completely save to enter the hallway, but the marine cannot see you at least.
this ability sounds quite powerful, but it's hive 3 (so it should be) and would fit pretty well to the fade. I just need to do proper cinematics and adjust timings / energy costs to make it work.
what do you guess think about it? (especially in comparison with fetch)