ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1868440:date=Aug 11 2011, 04:46 PM:name=Iacto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Iacto @ Aug 11 2011, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's do some maths here.
Say you have a team with a resource income of 10/t personal res. Also let's assume everyone starts out with nothing.
Now at 5 ticks, you can afford a fade.
If you can share resources, you can afford a fade at 1 tick. See the problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except fades aren't available from the beginning of the game, so your example doesn't work.
I'm mostly neutral on this idea. Marines already have a roundabout way to share PRes (jump in comm and drop weapons/med/ammo/catpacks) so its not like this doesn't happen in NS2. Making it more straight forward and giving aliens the option would seem like an ok idea. Though, I'm not sure there is any pressing need for it either, so I'd rate it a low priority.
It was just an example, but it stops you being able to starve a team of resources to the point where they can't consistently bring out higher tech units. You could dump resources to a gorge for example; making a massive wall of hydras
Well hold on, this is perhaps the best way to capture the alien strategic model in NS1 which depended on group decisions.
In games that take a long time, alien team res gradually becomes a useless statistic. In addition, there is only one way to play alien commander past the first five minutes of the game. After that, aliens almost always win because they can just lay hive after hive after hive. In addition, it is really easy for aliens to accumulate personal res as the only real resource sink is hydras, since fades can probably live long enough to afford another evolve when they die. If a marine kills a fade, then all he usually buys is a 2 minute reprieve.
There is also the problem with alien units that force them to commit to one role. If a fade decides he wants to kill structures, he's out 50 res, so he'll never switch classes. Gorges have no reliable way of boosting personal res, so they have to sit there doing nothing until they get bilebombs in endgame. They actually are pretty boring to play for most of the game.
Pooled team res forces the aliens to coordinate with eachother more than the personal-res only model of the first game, plus it allows the freedom to play as you want: since nobody has private res, they won't be compelled to use the extra to build. They can go fade and farm res for gorges to invest in hydras. Commanders can warn teammates to lay off on fades or hydras if they're saving up for a hive expansion. Killing fades and hives can actually cripple the alien team, because that's an investment lost for everyone.
The only concern in this model is that rogue players can actually be empowered to screw over the team. This can be solved with security restrictions based on MVP/points status or commander permissions, or teamplay can evolve naturally as an experiment to see if mandated teamwork can enforce good behavior.
Natural Selection has always required teamwork. Better teamplay should put a side at a tremendous advantage, with individual skill being a secondary modifier. If a person wants to sink his team, he is already within his power to do it - whether by entering a spare command chair and sending drifters/macs to their doom or by standing on build points or by simply being useless, he can influence a loss to a significant degree already.
However, we don't see that. We do see that if people are losing, they quit, but we don't see griefing, mainly because it's so effective that it gets old real fast, and teamplay in this game is much more rewarding. That's why I think that the aliens can stand a pooled team res configuration. It would make the game more fun to play as it will become a competition of ideologies once again, and the greater difference between the sides will definitely keep it fresh longer.
...
Either that, or aliens can do res banking, where they deposit excess res into hives a la "take a penny, leave a penny." Or they could be straight out taxed.
I think alien team res should be played with, as I've seen legitimate games get the aliens to 999 team res. This should never happen, and I'd much prefer a method that solves this and makes the alien playstyle that much more different than the marines.
There will probably be a 100 cap on pres at some point, to stop banking. If everyone was a wonderful player then I'd be happy with the shared res pool idea, but unfortunately, some people will go fade when the team already has three, or will just spam hydras at the entrance to Alien Start in crevice. The only way I can see this happening is if each alien requested a lifeform from the alien comm, but I don't think this would work in practice, especially with multiple hives. The alien team definitely needs a bit of love to encourage teamwork, but that will come I'm sure.
Comments
Say you have a team with a resource income of 10/t personal res. Also let's assume everyone starts out with nothing.
Now at 5 ticks, you can afford a fade.
If you can share resources, you can afford a fade at 1 tick. See the problem?
Say you have a team with a resource income of 10/t personal res. Also let's assume everyone starts out with nothing.
Now at 5 ticks, you can afford a fade.
If you can share resources, you can afford a fade at 1 tick. See the problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except fades aren't available from the beginning of the game, so your example doesn't work.
I'm mostly neutral on this idea. Marines already have a roundabout way to share PRes (jump in comm and drop weapons/med/ammo/catpacks) so its not like this doesn't happen in NS2. Making it more straight forward and giving aliens the option would seem like an ok idea. Though, I'm not sure there is any pressing need for it either, so I'd rate it a low priority.
/End
In games that take a long time, alien team res gradually becomes a useless statistic. In addition, there is only one way to play alien commander past the first five minutes of the game. After that, aliens almost always win because they can just lay hive after hive after hive. In addition, it is really easy for aliens to accumulate personal res as the only real resource sink is hydras, since fades can probably live long enough to afford another evolve when they die. If a marine kills a fade, then all he usually buys is a 2 minute reprieve.
There is also the problem with alien units that force them to commit to one role. If a fade decides he wants to kill structures, he's out 50 res, so he'll never switch classes. Gorges have no reliable way of boosting personal res, so they have to sit there doing nothing until they get bilebombs in endgame. They actually are pretty boring to play for most of the game.
Pooled team res forces the aliens to coordinate with eachother more than the personal-res only model of the first game, plus it allows the freedom to play as you want: since nobody has private res, they won't be compelled to use the extra to build. They can go fade and farm res for gorges to invest in hydras. Commanders can warn teammates to lay off on fades or hydras if they're saving up for a hive expansion. Killing fades and hives can actually cripple the alien team, because that's an investment lost for everyone.
The only concern in this model is that rogue players can actually be empowered to screw over the team. This can be solved with security restrictions based on MVP/points status or commander permissions, or teamplay can evolve naturally as an experiment to see if mandated teamwork can enforce good behavior.
Natural Selection has always required teamwork. Better teamplay should put a side at a tremendous advantage, with individual skill being a secondary modifier. If a person wants to sink his team, he is already within his power to do it - whether by entering a spare command chair and sending drifters/macs to their doom or by standing on build points or by simply being useless, he can influence a loss to a significant degree already.
However, we don't see that. We do see that if people are losing, they quit, but we don't see griefing, mainly because it's so effective that it gets old real fast, and teamplay in this game is much more rewarding. That's why I think that the aliens can stand a pooled team res configuration. It would make the game more fun to play as it will become a competition of ideologies once again, and the greater difference between the sides will definitely keep it fresh longer.
...
Either that, or aliens can do res banking, where they deposit excess res into hives a la "take a penny, leave a penny." Or they could be straight out taxed.
I think alien team res should be played with, as I've seen legitimate games get the aliens to 999 team res. This should never happen, and I'd much prefer a method that solves this and makes the alien playstyle that much more different than the marines.