Remade old ns1 maps?
I wonder why nobody try to remake the old maps, of course the gameplay change a lot but the map layout was very nice.
I mean, i am the only one who get a giant retrofeeling while watching this image? ^^
<img src="http://yclo1.free.fr/galerie-ns/images/mus__e_natural_selection___maps/plans_-_layout/ns_caged.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTrB0BQfZA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTrB0BQfZA</a>
My mind explode if i see this, i play this mod. for a half year, it was so much fun, the sounds, the maps, the community, everything was just awesome.
or more at this:
<a href="http://www.lerk.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=512" target="_blank">http://www.lerk.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=512</a>
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
EDIT:<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114602&st=20&p=1868805&#entry1868805" target="_blank">WATCH OLD NS1 maps in Editor without HL1.</a>
p.s. would you like to do a ns1HD remake?
I mean, i am the only one who get a giant retrofeeling while watching this image? ^^
<img src="http://yclo1.free.fr/galerie-ns/images/mus__e_natural_selection___maps/plans_-_layout/ns_caged.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTrB0BQfZA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTrB0BQfZA</a>
My mind explode if i see this, i play this mod. for a half year, it was so much fun, the sounds, the maps, the community, everything was just awesome.
or more at this:
<a href="http://www.lerk.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=512" target="_blank">http://www.lerk.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=512</a>
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
EDIT:<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114602&st=20&p=1868805&#entry1868805" target="_blank">WATCH OLD NS1 maps in Editor without HL1.</a>
p.s. would you like to do a ns1HD remake?
Comments
OK well you've convinced me, when I'm done with my map I'll remake caged. Happy?
To me that map felt like the 2fort of NS1, together with hera ;)
I think remaking NS1 maps is a good idea for the most part, layouts/map identity can be one of the most difficult part of the creation process
Caged might be a better candidate, the thing that kept me from doing caged is that sewer has standing water, and currently theres no real good way to do standing water in NS2. Looking at the overview tho, it might be a decent remake. When I finish my map I may consider a remake of a different map as well.
Anyway, I don't really yearn for the old maps in layout specfically, but more the atmosphere they carried. Hopefully that yearning will be satisfied when new (and more bright) art-assets are released.
ns_caged
ns_eclipse
ns_hera
ns_lost
ns_mineshaft
ns_nancy
ns_nothing
ns_origin
ns_tanith
ns_veil
nostalgia'd hard.
Hey!
Nobody said the maps have to be small! I don't know where the developers said "Natural Selection 2 Maps need to be smaller in size". pshhhh!
Nobody said the maps have to be small! I don't know where the developers said "Natural Selection 2 Maps need to be smaller in size". pshhhh!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure I read it in the map guidelines, but I may have been mistaken. There is definitely a human limit, where one or two people can only make a map so large, because detailing rooms is such a burden, and bigger maps have more/bigger rooms.
Its fanmade but in my opinion ns maps need shafts for the aliens.
I realy miss the old maps, i hope they will be made, if not i will try, but i forget which was my favorite...
ns_caged was nice, also ns_nothing...ah all maps where nice ^^.
I am excited for official maps, i hope the new maps will be bigger then the actual ns2 maps (except summit)
Well I guess it would (with Crafty or such) if the editor can load any standard file format.
So is it possible to import geometry ?
Nobody said the maps have to be small! I don't know where the developers said "Natural Selection 2 Maps need to be smaller in size". pshhhh!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the very outdated Mapping Guidlines:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 layouts will typically have 6-10 rooms (4-6
large tech point bases plus small and medium sized rooms for resource
points). Avoid the sprawling network of nondescript corridors typically
found in Natural Selection 1 maps, corridors should always lead
somewhere. Rooms, resource points and other high-conflict areas should
be relatively simple geometry-wise to lower confusion and aim
interference. They should also be overall a little bigger than in NS1 for less
chaos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, so far from the maps released marines would be better off with a set of boxing gloves,steal toed boots, and a pistol(fear combat). so small with limited view you don't have much time to calculate when to reload or switch weapons.
And then there is this time constraint:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Distances Between Rooms
Travel times between tech points should be about 15-22 seconds walking
as a marine. Here are some example distances and travel times for WIP
official maps (MS=Marine Start, RP=Resource Point, exp=Expansion Tech<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EDIT: forgot to add the dev example times:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Map 1 - 5 Techpoints
MS->1st RP = 1400, ~15 sec
MS->1st exp = 1400, ~12 sec
MS->2nd exp = 2000, ~21 sec
MS->AS = 3500, ~26 sec
Map 2 - 6 Techpoints
MS->1st RP = 1100, ~9 sec
MS->1st exp = 1600, ~16 sec
MS->2nd exp = 2200, ~18 sec
MS->AS = 6000, ~54 sec<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TAKE NOTE: That's marine walking time,not sprint time. So it would basically mean if you casually strolled for 45-60 seconds you would be looking at the enemy base. Imagine sprinting. some of the layouts you could kill your enemy in your base,run to his/hers and be on top of them when they re-spawn .
Kinda sounds like guide-lines for a combat map and brings the need for phase-gates to the table.
<b>Summit </b>plays better than <b>tram </b>and<b> rockdown</b>. I think Unknown World's original idea of having quicker games, with smaller maps, with less corridors, more open battles is bizarre. Not that a game like this can't work. It can. But I think that larger maps allow for better games. As a team, you have more to gain, more to lose, and the tension really feels like an actual battle.
I think someone should make an NS1 style map and see how it plays, because I really believe that with infestation/power node contrast, more room is needed.
When i first got my hands onto the editor and fooled around with the stock maps I too was perplexed as to why so small so i built ns2_tempest. see vid as that is all that remains of it after swift flames of critics burned it down. You might find that a lot of the mappers who started maps are scrapping them due to the "OMG!--It's too big" fear.
I stretched the boundaries of the guidelines on clandestine and i'm afraid that level will to become just a collection of videos so i put it on hold until mapping guidelines are updated.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TnQVBuHY6To"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TnQVBuHY6To" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nQ5zoiaKpzU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nQ5zoiaKpzU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3fGwAmSgbCs"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3fGwAmSgbCs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ppWnrcEjQFc"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ppWnrcEjQFc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Just a thought....
another scenario:
if you have a location entity with a power node in it then make several location entities with the same name, when the power point is taken out all location entities with that name will go to an un-powered state and would remain that way until the original power point was repaired then restoring power to all location entities with matching names.
I think i just gave away the secret to a siege scenario with a twist...lol.
Well I guess it would (with Crafty or such) if the editor can load any standard file format.
So is it possible to import geometry ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, i did it for a test.
1. Download NS
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/</a>
2. Download Milkshape (modelling programm, you can try 3ds max with 30 days trial too)
<a href="http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/download.html" target="_blank">http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/download.html</a>
3. extract ns + milkshape
4. go to your ns folder and create your folder:
for example
Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD\
in this folder you create 2 folders:
Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD\modelsrc\aliens\sensorychamber
Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD\models\aliens\sensorychamber
in modelsrc\aliens\sensorychamber\* you create a textfile and rename it to (for example)
sensorychamber.model_compile
paste this in:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> <model>
<geometry "sensorychamber.dae" />
<materials_path "models/aliens/sensorychamber" />
<physics "sensorychamber.dae" />
<scale 1.0 />
</model><!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
save.
IMPORTANT!
Copy the .mdl file to some single folder, otherwise your model folder will explode of animation files and stuff!
Also some .mdl files need 2 files like the sensory chamber "ba_sensory.mdl" and "ba_sensoryt.mdl"
Alternative you can if you decompile the .mdl just set a mark at "reference" and "textures"
5. Start Milkshape -> Tools -> Half-Life -> decompile normal HL MDL File -> for example the sensory chamber "ns\models\ba_sensory.mdl"
6. File -> Import -> Half-Life SMD -> search for your file (most time it has reference in the word or the biggest file) "upgrade_alien_sensory_reference.smd"
7. Do not change anything, just :
File -> export -> COLLADA (reg. only)
If milkshape is bad, you can use some other programm which can import SMD, like Blender (FREE) but i could not export collada right with blender.
8. Copy the sensorychamber.dae to your model file where you create the sensorychamber.model_compile:
Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD\modelsrc
9. Now the textures, convert the 2 (ns1 has most times 2 textures, but this is not a problem!) like "bld_aliensens1.bmp" and "bld_aliensens2.bmp"
Convert it with any programm which can export XX to .DDS (i use DXT5 + generate all mipmaps + 2D Texture)
10. now copy the "bld_aliensens1.dds" and "bld_aliensens2.dds" to your model folder of your mod/models :
Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD\models\aliens\sensorychamber
11. Create a textfile -> rename it to -> bld_aliensens1.material open and paste
For a test you could use this:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--><material>
<maps>
<map type="texture" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1.dds" />
</maps>
<properties>
<property type="surface" value="organic" />
</properties>
</material><!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
or this if you want to use all the textures you need...(BETTER!)
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--><material>
<maps>
<map type="texture" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1.dds" />
<map type="bump" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1_normal.dds" />
<map type="emissive" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1_illum.dds" />
<map type="specular" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1_spec.dds" />
<map type="opacity" value="models/aliens/sensorychamber/bld_aliensens1_opac.dds" />
</maps>
<properties>
<property type="surface" value="organic" />
</properties>
</material><!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
12. Do 10-11 with the other textur called "bld_aliensens2.bmp" too
13. Now create all the other normal, illum, spec and opac files of your two textures.
14. start steam + "run launch pad" -> create game -> ns1HD
Choose it from the droplist
15. start builder -> file -> load setup -> builder_setup.xml
Builder -> Settings -> Source directory -> paste your path to your ns1HD for example:
X:\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\ns1HD
Build -> Build
16. now you can launch the viewer in the launchpad to watch your model
Problems:
1. The model is to big even with scale of 0.1 (no changes?)
2. no physics
I hope this helps a tiny bit.
Milkshape will not be supported so i guess its pointless to do that and the other bad thing is, there is no free version of 3ds max.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b> i realy wish the UWE team would do some exporter for GMAX which is free:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<a href="http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax" target="_blank">http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax</a>
Such a great programm (its a free version of 3ds Max)!
NEEDED:
physics and animations
i have no idea how to do that right now.
<b>Summit </b>plays better than <b>tram </b>and<b> rockdown</b>. I think Unknown World's original idea of having quicker games, with smaller maps, with less corridors, more open battles is bizarre. Not that a game like this can't work. It can. But I think that larger maps allow for better games. As a team, you have more to gain, more to lose, and the tension really feels like an actual battle.
I think someone should make an NS1 style map and see how it plays, because I really believe that with infestation/power node contrast, more room is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel like I've talked about this a million times now, but I guess it won't stick until we actually get some of our other internal maps released to the public (hopefully soon).
Rockdown = test map. Was never meant as an official map, but due to performance issues and lack of other maps we kept this in rotation and did some retrofitting to make it a bit more playable. Do not judge NS2 map sizes by rockdown, because we aren't making any other maps that are that small.
Tram: This map ended up coming out smaller then we intended, and, in particular the travel time between start bases via the Tram tunnel is too short. We are currently adding travel distance between starts, and also expanding the size of the map, a bit.
Mineshaft and Docking are two official maps in development that are much larger, and as large as any NS1 map. We've never said that we wanted smaller maps, we just didn't want maps that were a confusing network of corridors as many NS1 maps were. So, having some larger, landmark areas that break up the hallways makes it easier to navigate the map and learn it as a first time player. In general, hallways and rooms should probably be a bit larger in NS2, as we want to accommodate the larger Onos size, as well as have more fun areas for flying around as a Lerk and Jetpacker.
Mainly, we want a range of map sizes on release. So, if people want to play a faster paced game and only have a handful of people, they can load up a smaller map. If they want longer games, or have a larger number of players, then maps like Mineshaft and Docking should work for them.
--Cory
A bit more tram tunnel would be nice, it does feel kinda short as is.
Tram has that nice east/west asymmetry going, which works better than summit as on summit both sides have a habit of ignoring the other and capping one side each, tram encourages more conflict over the central areas with the double res node and the nice way operations and elevator transfer work with each other. Lot more variety on tram, summit is kinda just five big identically purposed rooms with corridors connecting them.
its easy, download the bps viewer:
<a href="http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=31" target="_blank">http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=31</a>
download ns1
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/</a>
(ScootrNova.net is fast)
then just open the map e.g. ns_bast.bsp
<img src="http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/381/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5846/nsbast.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
textures are missing, i don't know why, but they are not needed to see the layout ;-)
its easy, download the bps viewer:
<a href="http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=31" target="_blank">http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=31</a>
download ns1
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/download/</a>
(ScootrNova.net is fast)
then just open the map e.g. ns_bast.bsp
<img src="http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/381/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5846/nsbast.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
textures are missing, i don't know why, but they are not needed to see the layout ;-)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but you can't edit anything this way, can you?