I command winning games all the time without building a robotics factory. Avoiding that tech tree allows for earlier phase gates, technology, and advanced weaponry.
King CowJoin Date: 2011-07-28Member: 112663Members
edited August 2011
I would be surprised if you do Kalabalana, how many is allot of games? 1 or 2 I guess. Aliens have much better map control, while marines must bunch together to take parts of the map aliens can do this alone and much faster. Unless the aliens really suck while you take one room a solo alien can take out the power in the other half of the map and this is repeated over and over.
Sentry guns are just to hold of aliens solo capping a room or delaying them untill your marines can rush over and defend. SO you do need to use sentry guns to start to take over the map and hold it unless the teams are stacked in another way. For instance marines have more players or aliens just reallysuck. (I really feel allot of alien players never learned to use skill or tatics while the fade was so OP and it really does show now. Seems like half the games I play aliens have no COM most of the time) The problem is that aliens have no counter to sentry guns so that even 3 well placed guns in a room will make it a very slow process to over take a room. Adding more to that number and useing sentry guns well and aggressively is very powerfull. Again this is not helped by the fact aliens hardly ever use much teamwork.
Runteh I think thse ideas are inspired but this is not really a balance sentrygun thread and I guess the devs already have plans and just need to add the onos maybe we should wait ...
<!--quoteo(post=1871853:date=Aug 29 2011, 09:15 AM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 29 2011, 09:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would be surprised if you do Kalabalana, how many is allot of games? 1 or 2 I guess...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I generally win when I command. marine commanding is much more skill heavy then alien side, and also requires a lot of organizational skills for the team plus a lot of macro.
but yes, I win most of my games (maybe lose one out of four?) without building a robotics factory, sounds crazy I know, but it's actually very team heavy and works quite well.
King CowJoin Date: 2011-07-28Member: 112663Members
I migth sound sarcastic but im not when I say you should do a guide because I would like to know what you unlock and in what order. I actually unlock armor and weapons before I go for sentryguns. But at some point my team almost always starts to lose the map and aliens attack our base then I get sentryguns.
Although I have not played a large ammount of games in the new patch and did have a few games where I did not have to get sentry guns untill much later so maybe now they are less important. Depends on the aliens teams skill and teamwork I think. The new patch lag also makes certain marine weapons much better I think like flamers and nades prehaps thats why.
You can find me on the anagram servers, I play often enough (evening eastern NA). I am more than happy to share everything I know about this game with anyone who's interested.
Shouldn't this be less of a problem since bile bomb now kills macs? There is just no way a commander who has only one res node can constantly replace every Mac he loses, considering the only constant source of income would be 1 res every 7 seconds, when Macs cost 5.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1871786:date=Aug 29 2011, 07:34 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 29 2011, 07:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can probably make a simple mod that limits static defenses in each room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be awesome. I really want to test something like that on our server.
<!--quoteo(post=1871826:date=Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really mean that but I am going to try and use other servers from now on so I dont feel like new and random rules are made up when aliens are loseing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats total nonsense. We have no ramdom rules. And i think all players on our server can confirm this.
<!--quoteo(post=1871826:date=Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first instance I was warned for sentrygun spam and given a 'final' warning (it was my first and only warning) When I was using the correct number of sentry guns anyway!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But im sure your "correct number of turrets" was placed in an exploiting way at marinestart on the edge at the way to flight control and inside the two pillars. btw. both is fixed in 1.85.
The turretrule is not for the endgame to prevent stalemates primary. You can have stalemates without any turret or ip, only with obs.
In other games it is normal to have serverrules. In BFBC2 for example you have server where sniper, some weapons, spawncamping, etc are forbidden. So this is "normal".
<!--quoteo(post=1871862:date=Aug 29 2011, 03:21 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 29 2011, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is this the same server that put FF on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like the marine-dropped floating bot sentry. Marines really do need a cheap, weak, 360-degree defensive structure to slow down alien attacks. This would also be an effective early game defense of marine start against a 1-2 skulk rush. I've always hated that a few skulks can easily take down marine start compared to a few marines who can't take down alien start.
I am fine with the server rule. It makes sense for the time being to keep the server more playable ...just keep re-evaluating how powerful turrets are.
I agree the main problem is right now the turrets do not have enough weaknesses. So taking them down takes way to much time and coordination. (Something you will not see in the pub scene)
Aliens should be able to take down turrets with tier2 lifeforms so waiting for the Onos is not an answer.
The idea of two different turrets interested me until the other turret became so complicated. just make it have a bigger cone with less damage.
tall turret = small cone, more damage, ...and PRICEY small turret = big cone, annoyance.
Also you did not define how these objects would be destroyed. If I am in a room with two entrances, and spend enough for a tall turret on each entrance. How will the aliens ever enter the room?
See the ARC cannon is something they got close to perfect right out the door. It is SO powerful, but easy to scrap = balanced.
King CowJoin Date: 2011-07-28Member: 112663Members
<!--quoteo(post=1871881:date=Aug 29 2011, 04:55 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Aug 29 2011, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats total nonsense. We have no ramdom rules. And i think all players on our server can confirm this.
But im sure your "correct number of turrets" was placed in an exploiting way at marinestart on the edge at the way to flight control and inside the two pillars. btw. both is fixed in 1.85.
The turretrule is not for the endgame to prevent stalemates primary. You can have stalemates without any turret or ip, only with obs.
In other games it is normal to have serverrules. In BFBC2 for example you have server where sniper, some weapons, spawncamping, etc are forbidden. So this is "normal".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said I was given a ''final'' warning for useing to many macs I even asked if the HBZ member had just made up that rule that moment and he admitted it, so yes random rules. Aparently we are not allowed to use more than 3 macs at a time. Its also normal to have allot of very bad servers with bad admins who just kick anyone they dont like and make up rules as they go, is this what you want? Your server is not bad but as I said I have had these final warnings twice now when I think it was not called for. Also all these anti marine rules when I see HBZ almost only play alien sets off alarms in my mind.
I can promise you I have NEVER placed sentry guns in walls because I think its not fair. I do not know who you are thinking about but its not me. It was under your old rules when it was a max 5 sentry guns to advoid server lag. I had max 5 in any room and still got a one and only ''final warning'' (again) and I did not even know about this rule untill that moment.
Saying that I have just got out of a game where the marine commander put 15+ sentry guns in one room, its just not funny at that point. I would say max 7 is more the upper limmit or even 8 if you ahve to have a limmit, 3-4 is to low. 10+ is just getting a bit silly espically if they also use arcs/ power packs.
I did say before you had to use sentry guns to win and that was true in the past but after useing the OBS allot more I think you can win without sentry guns if you use OBS well and the alien team sucks . But you do need a crappy alien team.
I can understand dePARA. They pay, they play on their way! In any not P2P (consoles) based game servers have rules like: •no nades before 5.40 •only 1 Sniper per team (mostly restricted to one by server) •no spawncamping (or godmode for spawmers) •no CC blocking •no scripts allowed (mostly blocked serverside) •.....
I can also under stand why not more than 3 Macs. It is annoying when the Cc/powernOde is at 2% and 7 Macs come to repair itto 100% in 1(!!!!) second!
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited August 2011
While HBZ can do whatever they like on their server, I see three problems with kicking for turretspam. <ol type='1'><li>What number or concentration of sentries that constitutes turretspam is subjective. Is 3 sentries turretspam? How about 6? Also, if you only have 3 sentries, but you bunch up in a hallway, is that turretspam? </li><li>Adminning the rule will be inconsistent and subjective. Though, this is a problem for pretty much every subjective gameplay action (griefing, spawncamping, exploiting), you're liable to have more problems with turretspam because many will view turretspam as part of the game. Also, since you probably don't have admins on your server 24/7, you'll run into the problem where new players will see people getting away with turretspam and think its ok to do themselves.</li><li>Kicking the marine comm doesn't solve the turretspam. Also, if someone who started comming after the turretspam occurred will obviously think they were unfairly kicked.</li></ol>
The best solution is either a server-side plugin that limits the number of sentries that can be placed (a good rule-of-thumb in my book is 3 sentries per tech/res node captured) or a marine version of cull hydras (cull sentries?) in Gm-Ovrmind or both.
I'm fairly sure turret farms will become pointless with the onos considering the marines will need to deny a third hive quickly instead of slow pushing if they want to win
That and marine T3 will just make this trend phase out
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
If a game is dragging on and the marines are confined to marine start with turrets, I usually just give the marines a warning that I will end the game with an alien victory unless the marines can push out and secure a res node within 5 minutes. Saves us all a lot of time and rage quitting.
But yeah, a mod limiting the number of sentries per room would be great, as there can be problems with sentry spam outside of MS as well.
Limiting sentries is just to make the gameplay better, it also makes the server performance more stable. Sentries seem to impact server performace much more than hydras now.
<!--quoteo(post=1871950:date=Aug 29 2011, 06:05 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 29 2011, 06:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But yeah, a mod limiting the number of sentries per room would be great, as there can be problems with sentry spam outside of MS as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice how do you define a "room". Sure their are these named areas on a map and a function for determine if a point is inside a named area. Ultimately it will not work properly because "rooms" can be either gigantic or merely little hallways connecting other rooms. In the end it's just a poor way to regulate how many turrents are appropriate to allow in a area.
And the OP is wrong. The devs intended for turrets to be used 2+ at a time [like in the movie Aliens] which is why they are not 360 rotating like they were in NS1.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1872029:date=Aug 29 2011, 11:23 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 29 2011, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872029"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice how do you define a "room". Sure their are these named areas on a map and a function for determine if a point is inside a named area. Ultimately it will not work properly because "rooms" can be either gigantic or merely little hallways connecting other rooms. In the end it's just a poor way to regulate how many turrents are appropriate to allow in a area.
And the OP is wrong. The devs intended for turrets to be used 2+ at a time [like in the movie Aliens] which is why they are not 360 rotating like they were in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, the game already has a limit on the number of structures in each room (kMaxEntitiesInRadius = 25 in Globals.lua). If you ever get an error "too many entities", that means you have reached the limit. The trouble is, a handful of Sentries covering one another can be very difficult to destroy.
<!--quoteo(post=1872030:date=Aug 30 2011, 03:26 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 30 2011, 03:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, the game already has a limit on the number of structures in each room (24). If you ever get an error "too many entities in area", that means you have reached the limit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm familiar with this. It applies to more then just structures... like droppacks are also included (as the message implies... all entities). Anyway here's an experiment to show the problem: Load up rockdown... drop as many structures as possible in marine start until that error message shows... now notice that the two hallways connected to marine start will permit more structures to be dropped. Sure "Node Reserves" can be thought of as a room (although you can see/shoot into it from marine start), but what about the other exit (that's more like a continuation of marine starts hallway). Now consider that every map will be different and situations like this will be common where a turret can shoot across multiple open-areas/"rooms". Assuming a limit of turrents per room, it would be possible to overlap their killzones (and double the turrents in an "area") by placing turrents so they shoot over the room barrier in support of each other.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1872033:date=Aug 30 2011, 07:42 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 30 2011, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm familiar with this. It applies to more then just structures... like droppacks are also included (as the message implies... all entities). Anyway here's an experiment to show the problem: Load up rockdown... drop as many structures as possible in marine start until that error message shows... now notice that the two hallways connected to marine start will permit more structures to be dropped. Sure "Node Reserves" can be thought of as a room (although you can see/shoot into it from marine start), but what about the other exit (that's more like a continuation of marine starts hallway). Now consider that every map will be different and situations like this will be common where a turret can shoot across multiple open-areas/"rooms". Assuming a limit of turrents per room, it would be possible to overlap their killzones (and double the turrents in an "area") by placing turrents so they shoot over the room barrier in support of each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Simple solution, give the other places like hallways a limit to 1 turret, and ones with a resource node a limit of 3. And rockdown is a bad map testing gameplay on. Its more for performance testing I guess.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
Server admins are of course free to come up with any kinds of rules that they want but generally i am against rules that affect gameplay like the turret rule here. I am also afraid that setting up rules like this will just hide the problems in the gameplay and making fixing them slower by the UWE team. But after playing couple of hours in the HBZ server today on both alien and marine teams and commanding a lot i found this rule to improve the game tremendously. It improves the need of communication and teamplay and makes the chance of endless stalemates smaller. I had probably the best games in ever in NS2 today while everybody were obeying this rule. Thanks a lot to dePARA for taking the iniative on this! Keep up the good work with you server!
Played on HBZ today and marine comm had 5 turrets guarding 1 power node, pretty ridiculous, should definately add a turret cap to ns2 for different areas.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
If the server is still performing fine and one team is making progress, I leave it be. But when the marines are stuck in their base with 10+ turrets and are surrounded (which is how 50% of the games end up), there's no point letting the game drag out another hour before players on both sides get bored and quit. So I just end it with the om mod after a 5-10 min warning so that we can start and new game and enjoy it.
If this wasn't a beta, there might be some legitimacy to the OP's idea. As is, it's kind of early to be doing that, don't you think? If i'm backed into my spawn as a marine and have 12 turrets on board, the usual way I go is to say "GG" and recycle most of my base.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
I've created a mod for limiting Sentries. I'm going to set the initial limit to 4 Sentries in an area with radius of 21. (The range of Sentry is 20.) So only each Sentry can have a maximum of 3 other Sentries can covering it. What do you think?
Notes: Server admin can tweak the two variables near the top of the file <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->kSentryBuildRadius = 21 kMaxSentryInArea = 4<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disclaimer: This mod is quite a hack job, so don't be surprised if it breaks in Build 186. Also, please stop using it next build, until it is updated.
PS: The limits are based on range, not on room. So with clever placement you can still fit around 10 to 15 Sentries into Marine Start on Summit. <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/ns22011090100162386.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8898/ns22011090100162386.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
- please set limit to 5 turrets, you never knows where is wider area to cower. (like xroads). The 5 turrets are not too much for initial test ;)
- the next great touch will be the max limit of MACs simultaneously working on one building. working means: construct or repair ... The max limit can be: 2 or 3. It will work like this: .. the commander select 10 MACs, and place building to construct it. .. result: only 2-3 MACs will do the job .. other will just fly idle around :D
King CowJoin Date: 2011-07-28Member: 112663Members
5-6 would be reasonable for reasons you give but I agree with the people saying that this will not work in beta. Wont this/these rules need to be changed after every new patch? At some point aliens will become overpowerd again, will it still be set at 3 sentry guns, will you need to start to have new rules for the alien team? At somepoint marines will be OP I guess as well, will it then be 1 sentry gun only? Starts to get complex.
This server is one of the very few servers with people regulary playing, wont it affect the feed back players give from now on on balance?
I think balance is better left to the devs instead of us trying to turn beta into a full balanced game for selfish reasons. Just wait for onos.
Although again as ive said allot I dont think you do need more than max 6 sentry guns in any room ever, and normally 3 is fine. I also agree more than 3 macs is not really needed (but is fun as hell)
Anyway it seems to me that the obs/nades and flamers are more powerfull than sentry spam when used well imop.
Comments
Avoiding that tech tree allows for earlier phase gates, technology, and advanced weaponry.
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Sentry guns are just to hold of aliens solo capping a room or delaying them untill your marines can rush over and defend. SO you do need to use sentry guns to start to take over the map and hold it unless the teams are stacked in another way. For instance marines have more players or aliens just reallysuck. (I really feel allot of alien players never learned to use skill or tatics while the fade was so OP and it really does show now. Seems like half the games I play aliens have no COM most of the time) The problem is that aliens have no counter to sentry guns so that even 3 well placed guns in a room will make it a very slow process to over take a room. Adding more to that number and useing sentry guns well and aggressively is very powerfull. Again this is not helped by the fact aliens hardly ever use much teamwork.
Runteh I think thse ideas are inspired but this is not really a balance sentrygun thread and I guess the devs already have plans and just need to add the onos maybe we should wait ...
I generally win when I command. marine commanding is much more skill heavy then alien side, and also requires a lot of organizational skills for the team plus a lot of macro.
but yes, I win most of my games (maybe lose one out of four?) without building a robotics factory, sounds crazy I know, but it's actually very team heavy and works quite well.
Although I have not played a large ammount of games in the new patch and did have a few games where I did not have to get sentry guns untill much later so maybe now they are less important. Depends on the aliens teams skill and teamwork I think. The new patch lag also makes certain marine weapons much better I think like flamers and nades prehaps thats why.
That would be awesome. I really want to test something like that on our server.
<!--quoteo(post=1871826:date=Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really mean that but I am going to try and use other servers from now on so I dont feel like new and random rules are made up when aliens are loseing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats total nonsense. We have no ramdom rules. And i think all players on our server can confirm this.
<!--quoteo(post=1871826:date=Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM:name=King Cow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King Cow @ Aug 29 2011, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first instance I was warned for sentrygun spam and given a 'final' warning (it was my first and only warning) When I was using the correct number of sentry guns anyway!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But im sure your "correct number of turrets" was placed in an exploiting way at marinestart on the edge at the way to flight control and inside the two pillars. btw. both is fixed in 1.85.
The turretrule is not for the endgame to prevent stalemates primary. You can have stalemates without any turret or ip, only with obs.
In other games it is normal to have serverrules. In BFBC2 for example you have server where sniper, some weapons, spawncamping, etc are forbidden. So this is "normal".
<!--quoteo(post=1871862:date=Aug 29 2011, 03:21 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 29 2011, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is this the same server that put FF on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, this is Frelge :)
+1
I really like the marine-dropped floating bot sentry. Marines really do need a cheap, weak, 360-degree defensive structure to slow down alien attacks. This would also be an effective early game defense of marine start against a 1-2 skulk rush. I've always hated that a few skulks can easily take down marine start compared to a few marines who can't take down alien start.
It makes sense for the time being to keep the server more playable
...just keep re-evaluating how powerful turrets are.
I agree the main problem is right now the turrets do not have enough weaknesses.
So taking them down takes way to much time and coordination.
(Something you will not see in the pub scene)
Aliens should be able to take down turrets with tier2 lifeforms
so waiting for the Onos is not an answer.
The idea of two different turrets interested me until the other turret became so complicated.
just make it have a bigger cone with less damage.
tall turret = small cone, more damage, ...and PRICEY
small turret = big cone, annoyance.
Also you did not define how these objects would be destroyed.
If I am in a room with two entrances, and spend enough for a tall turret on each entrance.
How will the aliens ever enter the room?
See the ARC cannon is something they got close to perfect right out the door.
It is SO powerful, but easy to scrap = balanced.
But im sure your "correct number of turrets" was placed in an exploiting way at marinestart on the edge at the way to flight control and inside the two pillars. btw. both is fixed in 1.85.
The turretrule is not for the endgame to prevent stalemates primary. You can have stalemates without any turret or ip, only with obs.
In other games it is normal to have serverrules. In BFBC2 for example you have server where sniper, some weapons, spawncamping, etc are forbidden. So this is "normal".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said I was given a ''final'' warning for useing to many macs I even asked if the HBZ member had just made up that rule that moment and he admitted it, so yes random rules. Aparently we are not allowed to use more than 3 macs at a time. Its also normal to have allot of very bad servers with bad admins who just kick anyone they dont like and make up rules as they go, is this what you want? Your server is not bad but as I said I have had these final warnings twice now when I think it was not called for. Also all these anti marine rules when I see HBZ almost only play alien sets off alarms in my mind.
I can promise you I have NEVER placed sentry guns in walls because I think its not fair. I do not know who you are thinking about but its not me. It was under your old rules when it was a max 5 sentry guns to advoid server lag. I had max 5 in any room and still got a one and only ''final warning'' (again) and I did not even know about this rule untill that moment.
Saying that I have just got out of a game where the marine commander put 15+ sentry guns in one room, its just not funny at that point. I would say max 7 is more the upper limmit or even 8 if you ahve to have a limmit, 3-4 is to low. 10+ is just getting a bit silly espically if they also use arcs/ power packs.
I did say before you had to use sentry guns to win and that was true in the past but after useing the OBS allot more I think you can win without sentry guns if you use OBS well and the alien team sucks . But you do need a crappy alien team.
•no nades before 5.40
•only 1 Sniper per team (mostly restricted to one by server)
•no spawncamping (or godmode for spawmers)
•no CC blocking
•no scripts allowed (mostly blocked serverside)
•.....
I can also under stand why not more than 3 Macs.
It is annoying when the Cc/powernOde is at 2% and 7 Macs come to repair itto 100% in 1(!!!!) second!
<ol type='1'><li>What number or concentration of sentries that constitutes turretspam is subjective. Is 3 sentries turretspam? How about 6? Also, if you only have 3 sentries, but you bunch up in a hallway, is that turretspam? </li><li>Adminning the rule will be inconsistent and subjective. Though, this is a problem for pretty much every subjective gameplay action (griefing, spawncamping, exploiting), you're liable to have more problems with turretspam because many will view turretspam as part of the game. Also, since you probably don't have admins on your server 24/7, you'll run into the problem where new players will see people getting away with turretspam and think its ok to do themselves.</li><li>Kicking the marine comm doesn't solve the turretspam. Also, if someone who started comming after the turretspam occurred will obviously think they were unfairly kicked.</li></ol>
The best solution is either a server-side plugin that limits the number of sentries that can be placed (a good rule-of-thumb in my book is 3 sentries per tech/res node captured) or a marine version of cull hydras (cull sentries?) in Gm-Ovrmind or both.
That and marine T3 will just make this trend phase out
But yeah, a mod limiting the number of sentries per room would be great, as there can be problems with sentry spam outside of MS as well.
Limiting sentries is just to make the gameplay better, it also makes the server performance more stable. Sentries seem to impact server performace much more than hydras now.
It sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice how do you define a "room". Sure their are these named areas on a map and a function for determine if a point is inside a named area. Ultimately it will not work properly because "rooms" can be either gigantic or merely little hallways connecting other rooms. In the end it's just a poor way to regulate how many turrents are appropriate to allow in a area.
And the OP is wrong. The devs intended for turrets to be used 2+ at a time [like in the movie Aliens] which is why they are not 360 rotating like they were in NS1.
And the OP is wrong. The devs intended for turrets to be used 2+ at a time [like in the movie Aliens] which is why they are not 360 rotating like they were in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, the game already has a limit on the number of structures in each room (kMaxEntitiesInRadius = 25 in Globals.lua). If you ever get an error "too many entities", that means you have reached the limit. The trouble is, a handful of Sentries covering one another can be very difficult to destroy.
I'm familiar with this. It applies to more then just structures... like droppacks are also included (as the message implies... all entities). Anyway here's an experiment to show the problem: Load up rockdown... drop as many structures as possible in marine start until that error message shows... now notice that the two hallways connected to marine start will permit more structures to be dropped. Sure "Node Reserves" can be thought of as a room (although you can see/shoot into it from marine start), but what about the other exit (that's more like a continuation of marine starts hallway). Now consider that every map will be different and situations like this will be common where a turret can shoot across multiple open-areas/"rooms". Assuming a limit of turrents per room, it would be possible to overlap their killzones (and double the turrents in an "area") by placing turrents so they shoot over the room barrier in support of each other.
Simple solution, give the other places like hallways a limit to 1 turret, and ones with a resource node a limit of 3.
And rockdown is a bad map testing gameplay on. Its more for performance testing I guess.
But after playing couple of hours in the HBZ server today on both alien and marine teams and commanding a lot i found this rule to improve the game tremendously. It improves the need of communication and teamplay and makes the chance of endless stalemates smaller.
I had probably the best games in ever in NS2 today while everybody were obeying this rule.
Thanks a lot to dePARA for taking the iniative on this!
Keep up the good work with you server!
Download Link: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?8e8yz0y91iy24ky" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?8e8yz0y91iy24ky</a>
Notes: Server admin can tweak the two variables near the top of the file
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->kSentryBuildRadius = 21
kMaxSentryInArea = 4<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disclaimer: This mod is quite a hack job, so don't be surprised if it breaks in Build 186. Also, please stop using it next build, until it is updated.
PS: The limits are based on range, not on room. So with clever placement you can still fit around 10 to 15 Sentries into Marine Start on Summit.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/ns22011090100162386.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8898/ns22011090100162386.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
I think I love you!
The 5 turrets are not too much for initial test ;)
- the next great touch will be the max limit of MACs simultaneously working on one building.
working means: construct or repair ... The max limit can be: 2 or 3.
It will work like this:
.. the commander select 10 MACs, and place building to construct it.
.. result: only 2-3 MACs will do the job .. other will just fly idle around :D
This server is one of the very few servers with people regulary playing, wont it affect the feed back players give from now on on balance?
I think balance is better left to the devs instead of us trying to turn beta into a full balanced game for selfish reasons. Just wait for onos.
Although again as ive said allot I dont think you do need more than max 6 sentry guns in any room ever, and normally 3 is fine. I also agree more than 3 macs is not really needed (but is fun as hell)
Anyway it seems to me that the obs/nades and flamers are more powerfull than sentry spam when used well imop.