Current uselessness of weldable doors
Jonacrab
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18705Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18705Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
<div class="IPBDescription">and a possible solution</div>So, I have been developing a map for a few months, and plan to release an alpha version of it soon. In my mapping, I could never justify placing weldable doors. The reason being, is that if you place one of those doors, you also have to make an alternate route going to the same location, which just makes the maps more complicated, which is something UWE has said to mappers to try and avoid. You "could" put a vent system as an alternate route, but that would be unfair to the gorge who cant climb walls, if that were the only other alternate route. And since the gorge is already a bit lacking in his role, since he was demoted from alien commander, it would just make him harder. The current line-of-thought is that the onos will be able to break down those doors, but somehow I dont think that is a good solution, seeing as onos is gonna be expensive and not available until late game.
So my idea would be to give the gorge some kind of head butt, or charging attack that can knock those doors open. Initially the doors would have to be welded to be locked. With the gorge attack, it could be made so the doors can still be welded shut again, but with the onos attack it would make the doors unfixable. With the ability for tier 1 aliens to break down doors, they could be placed in main routes, making it so the map doesnt have to be more complicated with alternate routes.
It would give the gorge an additional role, and the attack could also be an offensive attack that hurts marines, imagine some kind of gorge rushing at full speed, or rolling into marines, or head-butting, something like that. Im not completely sold on the idea myself, but I do believe that the weldable doors in their current state need change, they complicate the map when placed, and are better left out as is.
Thoughts?
So my idea would be to give the gorge some kind of head butt, or charging attack that can knock those doors open. Initially the doors would have to be welded to be locked. With the gorge attack, it could be made so the doors can still be welded shut again, but with the onos attack it would make the doors unfixable. With the ability for tier 1 aliens to break down doors, they could be placed in main routes, making it so the map doesnt have to be more complicated with alternate routes.
It would give the gorge an additional role, and the attack could also be an offensive attack that hurts marines, imagine some kind of gorge rushing at full speed, or rolling into marines, or head-butting, something like that. Im not completely sold on the idea myself, but I do believe that the weldable doors in their current state need change, they complicate the map when placed, and are better left out as is.
Thoughts?
Comments
But wasn't it planed, that (atleast locked) doors can be opened by infestation?
Consider a map where there's a weldable route into the back of the Marine starting area. You give the Marines an interesting problem on when to devote resources to covering that point. They know it's safe, so it's pointless to spend resources on it... until the late game, when suddenly an assault can burst in that way.
I think that if you let Gorges break them, then you've removed them as a reliable blockade. They're just a nuisance then. The map doesn't change at the end game, because you're always looking for something to come through that door.
I like that it makes the Gorge more interesting, and I think it'd be nice to have, perhaps, a light door and a heavy door to keep both possibilities open, but I'm not sure the added complexity is worth it.
Better to give the Gorge some other role, perhaps?
PS: I was thinking about a map with a long, unpowered corridor through the middle, with weldable doors along it. That map would give the marines strong early map control, which could be interesting if the rest of the map helped the aliens out a bit. Folk would feel safe to travel in there - but of course sometimes something gets in...
...and late game, once Onos are there, it turns right around, because now the aliens have a nice dark highway through the map.
My proposition is to make doors less debilitating to aliens, but at the same time keep the maps simple. First, its not "easy" for aliens to open the door, only the gorge can, which costs resources. And if the marines deliberately locked the door, there are probably marines behind it, so the gorge will need backup. Second, the door can be rewelded shut, so it is not useless(perhaps the gorge must attack the door several times in order to break it down, so there is a time element involved). Later in the game, the onos attack could completely disable the door and make it unweldable. The idea is to make the doors create a delay, so the marines can set up a base. If the aliens have no gorge to take down the door, the marines will have plenty of time to set up. With this, doors can be placed along main paths without the necessity of having alternate routes, which will keep the maps simple. It lessens the impact of the doors on the game, but if doors are placed along main paths, marines will know exactly when a skulk enters the room, if only by the sound of the door opening, so they can be prepared. Since it would not be so debilitating for aliens when a door is locked, there is room for adding many doors throughout the map, as it is now, having many doors in the map would destroy gameplay and make the paths more difficult to navigate.
The map im working on currently has no doors, and I have no intention of adding doors ATM, because I want my map to be simple and easy to navigate. Im simply exploring possible ideas so that doors can be more viable. NS1 had weldable vents, which worked well because they are not main paths, it just altered the options aliens had in using some vents. I like the idea of having doors, but as of now I dont see them working well for gameplay.
As in, don't make a route with a door, then make another route without a door. Make a route without a door, then see if there are any places you can add doors.
The point of doors is to give marines more mobility compared to the aliens, as they are way behind by default.
Which is exactly why the door to crossroads exists, the aliens can't use it, but it allows the marines rapid access to three areas of the map, without making their base more vulnerable.
So just make belly-slide deal damage?
Which is why phase gates exist. Also marines lack of mobility is made up by their ranged attacks. One of my biggest problems with crossroads is that its too accessible to marines, which makes it a horrible idea for aliens to try and take that hive, from any location in the map marines could just merge back to crossroads and take it out before aliens had a chance to do anything. In NS1 all of the hives had to be a significant distance from marine start so that marines couldnt just march into the alien hive and spawn camp. Adding mobility to marines with alternate routes is too much of an advantage, and you cant put those all over the map either. Marines need the disadvantage of mobility, because their tech and weapons make up for it.
The door to crossroads works fine, but as it is, you really cant add any more doors to the map, it just wouldnt work, unless you wanted a really complicated map with lots of alternate routes to the same place. I think with the ability to place doors on main routes, you can have multiple doors in the map... it just seems like a waste if each map has 1 of those doors. I just dont think they work.... weldable vents worked in NS1, but IMO the doors wont work as they are now.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just make belly-slide deal damage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya, something like that. Was thinking more like a running charge, but if necessary it could work with belly slide.
Why not a bridge over a gap that requires power to work? Elevators and transport platforms?
How about a high risk room which when powered is a security room showing parts of the map via cameras? There are so many options.
Why not a bridge over a gap that requires power to work? Elevators and transport platforms?
How about a high risk room which when powered is a security room showing parts of the map via cameras? There are so many options.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea of blast doors, bridges, ventilation shafts linked to the powernode a LOT.
Ventilation shafts! Taking the power node down stops the fan(s) allowing aliens to move through. Just like that you have a power node controlling a short cut.
"A door's health is measured by integrity, which is shown as a percentage. Its integrity will decrease with every hit, and the rate at which it decreases depends on the strength of the attacking specimens. A welded door can also be quickly destroyed by Grenades. Different doors have different health; larger doors generally have more maximum hit points, but take more time to weld."
With some balancing like being unable to repair the door while it's welded shut and a 60-120 second cooldown on rebuilding doors. It could work quite well.
The door to crossroads works fine, but as it is, you really cant add any more doors to the map, it just wouldnt work, unless you wanted a really complicated map with lots of alternate routes to the same place. I think with the ability to place doors on main routes, you can have multiple doors in the map... it just seems like a waste if each map has 1 of those doors. I just dont think they work.... weldable vents worked in NS1, but IMO the doors wont work as they are now.
Ya, something like that. Was thinking more like a running charge, but if necessary it could work with belly slide.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually you could pretty easily add a door or two on the western side, it's already marine focussed so it would simply cement the western route as the favoured marine approach, while giving it simultaneously more strengths and more weaknesses, as you could block an existing route with a door, but then add another route with a door, so at the start marines have more security, but later on it becomes more of a liability. Currently it's aliens east, crossroads nobody, and marines west, you could build on that quite nicely with more vents and a few more routes with and without doors.
Further, once infestation unlocks doors, you could add them to alien areas so that when marines get round to taking them, they have more options to secure the area. Having a sealable door gives marines more reason to clear it out and weld the door shut to make a forward staging area, again complimenting their mobility by giving them a good spot for a phase gate. You could combine it further still with vents leading into the same place, so marines cut off the flow of large aliens through the main halls but in doing so, encourage aliens to use the alternate routes and show up in unexpected places.
Nobody ever said maps had to be symmetrical. You have to wildly different teams, take advantage of it.
But wasn't it planed, that (atleast locked) doors can be opened by infestation?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. Locked doors are planned to be able to be opened by infestation.
Welding doors is the counter to that.
Onos is the counter to welded doors.
It's just not in the game yet, patience folks. ;)