Possible hacking in Beta

Morkrash

I have reason to suspect that a handful of people out there are using hacks. Don't get me wrong, I understand that some players are just really, really good. But I've come across at least 2-3 highly suspicious instances/players that scream hacking. These include very high health counts (or damage not registering) and being unencumbered by high ping.

I'm not exactly sure how this is possible (could be lag hacks, client, etc.), nor why anyone would do it in a game that's only in beta. Is it possible, though? I won't accuse anyone, but I want to bring up the issue just in case.

Thanks.

meb3

well, I HAVE been selling a lot of my $5 lua mod aimbots to those preparing for the NS2HD tournament

TrC

I second the lua aimbot, perfectly legit and works on 400ping servers.

swalk

Lua aimbot works like a dream, thanks man! Best $5 ever!

Koruyo

Selling my .dll aimbot for 10$ - im getting rich!

MaGicBush

Yes it's very possible, and I have seen a few hack sites that have some available. But this is possible in any-game and was only inevitable unfortunately.

Boxer`D

Have you really? a quick search shows that most hacking sites don't want anything to do with a beta of a game.
look at a hacking community like a business niche, if there's no money in it usually there's no reason for them to participate in it.

If there's anything suspect that you are feeling it's probably a PC > PC issue to be honest, which whether people accept it or not is a gigantic factor in any FPS games.

Lua can be edited of course, and their are commands/files which people do, but again it is beta.

I wouldn't worry too much about cheats, there really isn't a market for it to be honest. Then again, who knows ^^

Koruyo

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have seen a few hack sites that have some available<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For ns2, srsly oO? (hope if uwe turns on vac and hash checks, it wont be announced in tracker/patchnotes)

MaGicBush

<!--quoteo(post=1875272:date=Sep 17 2011, 11:02 PM:name=Boxer`D)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boxer`D @ Sep 17 2011, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you really? a quick search shows that most hacking sites don't want anything to do with a beta of a game.
look at a hacking community like a business niche, if there's no money in it usually there's no reason for them to participate in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, I really have. I am a member at a few private sites that have released such things(No I do not hack NS2, but I have interest to see what I am up against and see all sides of a coin). A note here a "quick search" wont show much on most of these sites, as they are private and you generally have to be a member or game developers would find them just as easily. Money has nothing to do with most hack developers, it has to do with the challenge. On that note, I have only seen a wallhack and lag hack available for NS2 for version 180 not 185(but according to a few users they work the same obviously since UWE is not concentrating on these aspects at the moment and they shouldn't).

ScardyBob

Actually, I'd take this a sign of the game getting popular. Hackers/griefers usually pay attention only to popular or up and coming games.

elodea

<!--quoteo(post=1875232:date=Sep 18 2011, 08:52 AM:name=Morkrash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Morkrash @ Sep 18 2011, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These include very high health counts (or damage not registering) and being unencumbered by high ping.

I'm not exactly sure how this is possible (could be lag hacks, client, etc.), nor why anyone would do it in a game that's only in beta. Is it possible, though? I won't accuse anyone, but I want to bring up the issue just in case.

Thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well if people seem to wallhack, its more likely because of the broken LOS atm. (powernodes and dead teammates give LOS which is getting fixed next build). All you have to do is keep minimap up mostly and you see things your not really supposed to be able to see.

Also, if this was from the fun game last night and i remember correctly, were you playing from overseas to the aus server? Rego gets pretty bad pretty quickly with higher pings currently in beta (especially with shotgun arggh ><). Part of it has got to do with a very slight delay between when you press mouse1 and when your client recognizes a shot i think so your shots are always lagging behind a bit especially when the enemy is moving/jumping around alot. With high enough pings you even can get shot and take damage before you see the marine walk into LOS. While its possible people are hacking, sometimes it really is just the current prediction and networking acting weird. For example you can test this out yourself too by trying to parasite a marine thats strafing left/right - its still quite hard although easier than older builds to register until the marine stops moving so much.

Crispy

In my experience hack sites will have an initial discussion of upcoming games and a vote from regular users/high contributors before they begin investigation for aimbots, wallhacks, etc. on your game.

I don't think NS2 has reached that level of demand.

vizioNz

lol r u serious? haaaaaaaaaa

konata

It's bad client hit registration. Not high amount of health. The game isn't fully complete and performance such as this is obvious to all as being no where near completion.

Guys stop trolling, start helping the guy out. Even if he is over-reacting.

Kalabalana

Show us proof, or it isn't true.

I don't see why anyone other than a die hard, but crappy, fan would make a hack for ns2.

Runteh

Aimbots don't worry me because you can spot them a mile off... wallhacking, or minimap hacking is the real issue I see with ns2.

Speedhacks can be a pain, but again, they are easy to spot.

To be honest, maybe someone has mad a hack. But I find it highly unlikely.

Sometimes it can be a combination of things... a really good player on a server located near to them can appear to be pulling off kill after kill on people with ease when pings are bad. Maybe they have a system setup that the game gets on well with.

I played very competitively quite a few years ago in the CS scene, and that was FULL of hacks. But sometimes certain things came together and you completely outplayed or were completely outplayed by an opposing team.

Price

wow and i guessed the ns2 community is more mature...fail

meb3

the game/engine doesn't have first-person spectating or comprehensive file consistency checks, so deal with it

(and buy my $5 aimbot)

konata

Anti-cheat clients will need to be used because of what meb said above, as you could employ so many LUA hacks so freely.

DJPenguin

<!--quoteo(post=1875376:date=Sep 18 2011, 11:55 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Sep 18 2011, 11:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anti-cheat clients will need to be used because of what meb said above, as you could employ so many LUA hacks so freely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

isn't the game already using VAC? And forget about that atrocity PB.


<i>Punkbuster, causing more harm than good since Return to Castle Wolfenstein</i>

player

<!--QuoteBegin-'A great man once said'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('A great man once said')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A hash has to be made of all the Lua-scripts on the client, and checked against what the server has, any mismatches should result in a re-download or kick. This moves the problem away from Lua and into the engine, at wich point UWE can consider using VAC to protect that portion of the game against tampering (you don't want VAC guarding the Lua-scripts, as the whole idea was to be able to freely edit those).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[EDIT]
Oh and no, NS2 isn't using VAC at this time (I think).

konata

The only problem is that hash could wrongly exclude good and legal pieces of LUA used by the player.

player

Good and legal pieces? You mean the crosshair\minimap\etc-mods? Yeah that's a bit of a problem as Lua is so very pliable and doesn't really know things like const or private, so such mods will either go the way of the dodo, or a seperate VM will have to be created containing only 'innocent' game-mechanics.

Dragon-Guard

<!--quoteo(post=1875408:date=Sep 18 2011, 08:22 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Sep 18 2011, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only problem is that hash could wrongly exclude good and legal pieces of LUA used by the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=1875412:date=Sep 18 2011, 08:29 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Sep 18 2011, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good and legal pieces? You mean the crosshair\minimap\etc-mods? Yeah that's a bit of a problem as Lua is so very pliable and doesn't really know things like const or private, so such mods will either go the way of the dodo, or a seperate VM will have to be created containing only 'innocent' game-mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well they could solve that like Killingfloor did later on, its not exactly the same but any map or mutator (gamemodes that only spawn a cetain specimen instead of all or something that modifies money or hp) have to be whitelisted by the devs for the game to let you play with perks, and without perks its a bit pointless to play.

So the community with the help of the devs could build out a script library of allowed scrips/mods that people can use and deny any others, either completely or by server (like source servers with sv_pure that doesnt allow for custom content.

hood

ns was full of a cheaters and scripters anyway and i expect no better for ns2

konata

The problem is Dragon-guard that then goes against the point of using LUA for the majority of the game.

Shilorius

Recently I saw a person who had incredible aim. Killed a lerk in flyby, turned around just to kill a skulk (3 times in a round) and so on.
okay, maybe that guy is just awesome, but it <i>felt</i> strange.

But I can imagine that there are some cheats coming up. There will be a tournament in the near future with a high money prize...

And with LUA the cheaters have enough access to the game engine to modify it.....

....... as long as there is no way for the server to check the clients data for alterations.

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1875617:date=Sep 19 2011, 09:14 PM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Sep 19 2011, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Recently I saw a person who had incredible aim. Killed a lerk in flyby, turned around just to kill a skulk (3 times in a round) and so on.
okay, maybe that guy is just awesome, but it <i>felt</i> strange.

But I can imagine that there are some cheats coming up. There will be a tournament in the near future with a high money prize...

And with LUA the cheaters have enough access to the game engine to modify it.....

....... as long as there is no way for the server to check the clients data for alterations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hope thats not us you're talking about :/
If it is, the guy really is that good..

autograder

From my CS days - the greatest compliment is to be called a cheater and banned.

autograder

Proof of NS2 H4x1nG!!!!111

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B2EvFtEYPY#t=1m06s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B2EvFtEYPY#t=1m06s</a>

Kouji_San

I also had hax back then, they were called Sennheiser and MX500 (before that Mouseman) :P