ns2_descent
Jonacrab
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18705Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18705Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
<div class="IPBDescription">Formerly ns2_lockdown</div>New Version: Beta01 10/08/2011
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip</a>
Previous Version: alpha02 9/30/2011
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha02.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha02.zip</a>
Version Alpha01 (Dont think anyone will need this, but just in case)
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha01.zip</a>
Here is a link to the old thread for ns2_lockdown, in case you want to see some of the old screenshots, I will also add a reply here with some new screenshots of what has been added.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114373" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114373</a>
Changelog beta01:
Mostly balance issues, with some small visual additions.
-Tram Station - complete redesign, should be more balanced than the previous one, I think I like the visuals of the old one better, but there was just no way to balance it, things had to change.
-Power Core - Small changes to the layout and to the connected vents. Cut out a section of the vent to make it a little bit longer for aliens to get to power core. Marines and aliens should meet in power core at about the same time if they go strait from the beginning of the round.
-Research - Started adding some of the details, but just a bit, there is still much more to come. Also adjusted some of the connecting rooms with some glass doors, and changed the shape of the rooms as well.
-Shipping/Water Treatment - Added a permanent undestroyable power node to each of these rooms to give marines a better chance at taking power core.
-Pipeline - Added a set of pipes in the middle to break up the line of sight, there was a stretch where you could see beyond the point where entities start disappearing, this should solve that. Also added a destroyable power node which powers the nearby Resource node.
-Pathing - Fixed the problem in the halls by operations where drifters and macs would stop, they should be able to navigate there freely. Most of the stairs will work, but try as I did, I could not solve all of the issues, there are still stairs that macs just play dumb at the top of. There wasnt alot I could do, but some of them that did not work at all before work better now, so its an improvement. Some issues with placing cysts have popped up due to 186, my only suggestion is that if you find that you cant place a cyst anywhere in the path, try building one a short distance behind the last one you placed, and it should allow you to place them further. I would also avoid placing them on stairways as they are bugged sometimes and will start dying, even though there is no reason they should be dying.
-Textures - You may notice that all around the map I have changed some textures, this is due to a graphical change in 186, that changed the specularity of some of the textures, and thus made some of the textures I used look pretty bad, so for now the textures are a temporary change, that I will adjust as I start adding the details.
For next version:
I feel that the balance should be pretty good in this version, and I can start nailing down the final details of the visuals. If you do see issues with balance please let me know. It has been a bit difficult to get alot of balance testing at this stage, and the whole balance of the game is in flux on top of that.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip</a>
Previous Version: alpha02 9/30/2011
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha02.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha02.zip</a>
Version Alpha01 (Dont think anyone will need this, but just in case)
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_alpha01.zip</a>
Here is a link to the old thread for ns2_lockdown, in case you want to see some of the old screenshots, I will also add a reply here with some new screenshots of what has been added.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114373" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114373</a>
Changelog beta01:
Mostly balance issues, with some small visual additions.
-Tram Station - complete redesign, should be more balanced than the previous one, I think I like the visuals of the old one better, but there was just no way to balance it, things had to change.
-Power Core - Small changes to the layout and to the connected vents. Cut out a section of the vent to make it a little bit longer for aliens to get to power core. Marines and aliens should meet in power core at about the same time if they go strait from the beginning of the round.
-Research - Started adding some of the details, but just a bit, there is still much more to come. Also adjusted some of the connecting rooms with some glass doors, and changed the shape of the rooms as well.
-Shipping/Water Treatment - Added a permanent undestroyable power node to each of these rooms to give marines a better chance at taking power core.
-Pipeline - Added a set of pipes in the middle to break up the line of sight, there was a stretch where you could see beyond the point where entities start disappearing, this should solve that. Also added a destroyable power node which powers the nearby Resource node.
-Pathing - Fixed the problem in the halls by operations where drifters and macs would stop, they should be able to navigate there freely. Most of the stairs will work, but try as I did, I could not solve all of the issues, there are still stairs that macs just play dumb at the top of. There wasnt alot I could do, but some of them that did not work at all before work better now, so its an improvement. Some issues with placing cysts have popped up due to 186, my only suggestion is that if you find that you cant place a cyst anywhere in the path, try building one a short distance behind the last one you placed, and it should allow you to place them further. I would also avoid placing them on stairways as they are bugged sometimes and will start dying, even though there is no reason they should be dying.
-Textures - You may notice that all around the map I have changed some textures, this is due to a graphical change in 186, that changed the specularity of some of the textures, and thus made some of the textures I used look pretty bad, so for now the textures are a temporary change, that I will adjust as I start adding the details.
For next version:
I feel that the balance should be pretty good in this version, and I can start nailing down the final details of the visuals. If you do see issues with balance please let me know. It has been a bit difficult to get alot of balance testing at this stage, and the whole balance of the game is in flux on top of that.
Comments
Hive Location, Excavation:
<img src="http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2497/excavation1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1395/excavation2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8687/excavation3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
Smelter:
<img src="http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1391/smelter1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5291/smelter2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
Fissure:
<img src="http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9730/fissure1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4861/fissure2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
Junction:
<img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3148/junction1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7407/junction2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/524/junction3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-26
More incoming....
<img src="http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7594/pipeline1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7528/pipeline2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6587/pipeline3u.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
Barracks:
<img src="http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5360/barracks1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4521/barracks2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5931/barracks3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
Water Treatment:
<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7011/watertreatment1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4965/watertreatment2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
And thats it for now. Theres some other stuff in the map, but this is most of it, with the screens from the other thread.
Gameplay wise I think its called marine barracks, or quarters or something, but the hallway to the east side of marine start, maybe its just me but it seems a little too long, giving marines an easy spot to shoot skulks from far away, but other than that i can't think of anything that could be wrong.
<img src="http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7594/pipeline1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7528/pipeline2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6587/pipeline3u.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
Barracks:
<img src="http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5360/barracks1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4521/barracks2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5931/barracks3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
Water Treatment:
<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7011/watertreatment1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
<img src="http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4965/watertreatment2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By jonacrab at 2011-09-26
And thats it for now. Theres some other stuff in the map, but this is most of it, with the screens from the other thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great stuff, I'll give you some more feedback in a sec
Edit: Such creative work!
I really like how you used the assets in new and original ways. I definitely got a lot of ideas just walking around and looking at your great work. My only complaint is the amount of flat walls, but then again, I understand that this is an alpha. There are also some models stretched too far and thus a little weird looking, I'd work on that. The only other thing I saw was that some of your shadows have fade rates that are too large (probably .25) and some could use a .01 or a .0, in order so that the great shadows in water treatment for instance maintain visibility from further away. I can't say more until I play it, but a strong map. I'm very proud of our custom mapping community!
I can agree with that, this is why there are the trenches running down the sides of the hall, so skulks can duck in there and avoid fire, and have a fighting chance in there. It is supposed to be a position marines can hold, for the res node, but I will keep this in mind. Thanks for the feedback.
i want to play a game with it.
I hope that soon this on a server
Your map is very exciting and really looking good for an alpha version. I just love the style of the smelter room and the fissure cave...
We will be running this map on InversionNS2.com #2 server today. Hopefully that will allow your map to be played in a pub fashion and help produce some additional constructive feedback. Thanks for letting us finally try out your fantastic work!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/z0udKl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also, in regards to the discussion on vents for fissure as a chokepoint, you could put it on the far wall of the interconnecting room. Not sure if its good to have too many entrances into such a small space though.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/uZsR0l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think maybe if you shrink the glass area and make a portion opaque, skulks can crawl up and down that little glass boxed area without being seen as much and marines get more of a sense of going 'blind' into a cave
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/VHcJ9l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It might be because you havn't put in all the detail yet or its the kind of look your going for, but i wasnt sure about the dimensions and how it quickly feels too tall and narrow - not someplace that would be used as a real corridor. One solution could be to change the 1st stair into a continued platform so you get a sense of direction of where the hive is and the background corridor looks smaller and better proportioned
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ISFFcl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
a short vent i think that might need to be added to prevent too much chokepointing around alien spawn
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ttuL3l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But really i can't find anything too strikingly wrong with the map and you had interesting ideas for what to improve already - the skulk play is great among other things :).
Where do all these talented mappers come from?!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UoUBH.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The physics issues are a result of a script error, not the map. Unless you post the whole log, we won't be able to tell where it orginated from. -Tempest
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Things that bothered me<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<ul><li>The map is too big for 6v6</li><li>Tram Station tech point is terrible for aliens because it is so open. Building a hive there would be insane</li><li>Excavation tech point is also very open and risky for aliens compared to the power core</li><li>You can shoot the excavation hive through the grating close to fissure. Enabling marines to defend in a very good spot. </li><li>The rooms and corridor don't offer any protection for aliens</li><li>On the other hand aliens can get to nearly anywhere through the vents. It balanaces the plain rooms and corridors but makes the gameplay boring as aliens have safe routes to almost every place</li><li>Alien start is easy to camp from both sides. Corridors in junction are plain and long. There are no vents to get out of the start.</li><li>Cysts can be placed on top of many walls. They're indestructible but allow you to expand the infestation</li><li>The map has quite many different themes (mine, lab, power, shipping, command and operations techy stuff), water treatment. It makes me feel that shipping, power and water treatment are not very related to the other themes.</li><li>Lab corridors look very clean but have dirty, rusty pipes in them and alien start doesn't look very lab like.</li><li>Distances from the marine start to the rts in the middle are very long. Aliens can destroy everything in the base before marines get back to base to defend it. (When obs still has no energy in the start for example)</li><li>4 vertical routes through the map makes you feel you need 4 squads in your team. in 6v6 that would be everybody going alone</li><li>I like the shipping vent where marines can get on top of the Excavation hive. But maybe the grating on top of the hive is too much? The marines can knife the hive or shotgun the hive from point blank range taking 20% with 8 shotty shots while being easily defended.</li><li>Marines can shoot into many of the vents. I kinda like it, but it's frustrating that there are no hiding spots in some of the vents then.</li><li>Smelter and Westrail seem to be kind of unused areas. Only used to walk between alien start and Excavation, but nothing is really happening there.</li></ul>
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Things that I liked<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Apart from the issues mentioned I really liked the geometry, all the details and effort you have put into the map. And it felt awesome to get to play new a map and try to think of all the strategies one can come up with this. I really liked the looks of smelter, excavation, reactor core, operations, command and water treatment. I also liked the fact the reactor hive can only be attack from the adjacent horizontal rooms.
I also liked the idea of the tram rail going through the map but only small parts of it were actually accessible.
Overall, i found it very good looking for an alpha release.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Some screenshots<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<img src="http://zeikko.fi/ns2/2011-09-27_00005.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This ceiling is annoying as a commander
<img src="http://zeikko.fi/ns2/2011-09-27_00010.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Indestructible Cyst on top of a wall
<a href="https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1P0iPlt6D_cRmXDKKGzv1SfSfRT6R79k160BbtV-eUCM/edit?hl=en_US" target="_blank">Here's also a link to a google drawing with a screenshot of the minimap and some notes</a>
I hope this helps. I really hope you keep working with this map and i'm looking forward to test it again and give more feedback!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5C28C48796672271" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5C28C48796672271</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->•The map is too big for 6v6<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So would you call summit big enough for 6v6? But what about jetpacks, summit is much too small for jetpacks, as it would probably take 5 seconds to jetpack to each hive. On descent, each route can be viewed as a circle, and there are 4 circles, from research to power, from excavation to power, from marine start to power, and tram station to power. each of these routes takes roughly 30 seconds to walk(not sprint) as a marine. In NS1 the routes were perhaps slightly bigger, but did run around 30-40 seconds on each path. Now, in ns1, there was a minimum and maximum of 3 hives, no real room for difference there. In Ns2, they want more hive locations, with the possibility of marines using them to tech as well. So, that being said, my map has 5 locations and therefore, for the sake of balance, all routes must be in the vicinity of 30 seconds, which they are. With jetpacks that would probably make it so it takes closer to 10-15 to reach a hive. So assuming that we dont want any fewer than 5 tech points, my map HAS to be as big as it currently is in order to accommodate jetpacks, and needs circular routes to access each tech point. This makes all of the current main paths that i have in my map necessary, and thus this map is too big for 6v6 since it would only allow for 1 marine on each path, and so I agree with you, it is too big for 6v6. But if summit is too small for jetpacks, then it is not a good map for competitive play either. So that leaves my current map size as the only real viable option for competitive play but it wont work for 6v6. So we are left with one conclusion: competitive play in NS2 will NOT be balanced at 6v6, and should probably be expanded to 7v7 or 8v8. With the additional tech points, things have to change. Debate this if you like, but I believe the logic is there. I believe that 6v6 will only work in a 3 hive (4 tech point) situation.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->•On the other hand aliens can get to nearly anywhere through the vents. It balanaces the plain rooms and corridors but makes the gameplay boring as aliens have safe routes to almost every place<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In its current state, without movement chambers or any way to teleport to a hive location, aliens have to have quick access to all hives, and I will probably be adding more vents to accommodate this. It is a big map, and aliens need to be able to get to the hive locations regardless of the size of the map. So until aliens have a different way to travel to locations faster, these vents will stay, but as the game progresses I will be completely open to change. The current build is not great for a map of this size, but I believe it will be a good standard size for the final release.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->•The map quite many different themes (mine, lab, power, shipping, command and operations techy stuff), water treatment. It makes me feel that shipping, power and water treatment are not very related to the other themes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I may have overdone it with how many different areas there are, but I wanted the map to feel like a mlitary facility. I didnt want to put it off as a themed map, where I copy an paste alot of corridors to keep with the theme. So you may be right in that there are too many themes in the map, I will evaluate this as I keep developing. Now, as for the themes you say dont fit, every facility has some sort of power generator, and thats how it fits in this map. every facility also has some place to store water(water treatment) which in my map also has the dual purpose of being next to a nuclear generator, in case there was a nuclear melt down, they would feed the water into the power core. I intended for these to be viewed in this way, and when i get back to adding the details there will be pipes running into power core. The vent leading to the top of excavation hive I originally wanted to be an extension of shipping, where the conveyors led all the way down to excavation, and that is the means of transporting equipment to the excavation site. It did not quite end up as I intended it, as i started to run out of room for the tech point in the hive, and so it doesnt quite fit my intentions.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->•4 vertical routes through the map makes you feel you need 4 squads in your team. in 6v6 that would be everybody going alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 2 vertical routes down the sides of power core were not really intentional, but required in order to complete the 4 loops of the map that i discussed above to give equal access to all hives. I dont really see any other way to complete those circles, and cutting off any part of those routes would create some large imbalance and confusion in the map. So i believe this is purely a result of having a 5 tech point map. If you have any suggestions to resolve this, I would love to hear it.(I did come up with a new idea while writing this post, I will post some shots with pics about the new proposed idea)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->•Smelter and Westrail seem to be kind of unused areas. Only used to walk between alien start and Excavation, but nothing is really happening there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is also a result of the 5 tech points, and the necessary loops connecting them, It just makes it somewhat unnecessary to travel these parts, but they do need those paths for access. On second thought, I just had an idea to possibly resolve some of this issue. So ill be looking more into it and if I come up with something ill let you guys know, I have to think this over for a bit :P
I believe i will be looking into resolutions for most of your other concerns, but in the meantime, your links apparently did not work correctly, and that map is cut off and is not complete, I would like to see everything that you had there, so if you could fix that :P
Thanks for the comments tho, I appreciate all the help in developing, and I am glad that I chose not to finish all the details before I did any public tests, It will make for a much stronger map.
The image: Red represents the vertical paths that people seem to think are hindering gameplay. Green represents the main path loops before and after the change.
<img src="http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/154/descentlayout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
By <a href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jonacrab" target="_blank">jonacrab</a> at 2011-09-27
The downfalls of doing this would be that the shipping conveyer belt leading to the vent on top of the tech point in excavation would have to be mostly scrapped, (although I would probably still keep that vent) as well as some other alterations. I may end up scrapping shipping if things dont feel right, but I think water treatment would work fine, I may have to put a second large curved stairway on the other side in order to compensate.
Give me opinions so I can crank this out for the next version.
<div align='center'>watch in 1080p fullscreen at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZPfpNx3y9g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZPfpNx3y9g</a></div>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ZPfpNx3y9g"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ZPfpNx3y9g" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Also were some complaints about geometry at some point, if you guys know something, pass it along so I can fix it!
Some things I would change are the locations of res- and nodes. Res nodes should be placed in rooms which are not linear (multiple entrances) and which are more valuable. Eg. the res-location in crew quarters: The problem here is that it is almost impossible for aliens to destroy the extractor. The linear hallway makes it very easy for marines to kill incoming aliens and also the power node is pretty much worthless. I think its better to move the location of both to Barracks and shorten the way from there to marine start. The power node then should not be placed directly besides the res node so aliens have a chance to cut the power more easier and marines are forced to defend it.
The size of your map is good IMO, although it might be too big in the current build. But as a mapper you should build your map for the final ns2 version with all tech-tiers and features implemented.
The addition of the door might smooth things out for marines, since it will close one of the main routes, but aliens will still have plenty of vents, and they can still go through water treatment into power core.
I should have a new alpha in a couple days, with mostly balance changes. And some of it will be to test things like the doors, unless there is a public outcry against these doors :P
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So we are left with one conclusion: competitive play in NS2 will NOT be balanced at 6v6, and should probably be expanded to 7v7 or 8v8.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I felt that 6v6 was too small number of players in ns1 already, but nobody really wanted to try out team games with more participants. Yesterday we also had enough players for 8v8 but still most of the people were against trying that out. I don't know why people in the competetive scene want to play mostly 6v6 but that's how it has been for years. It is a good intention that bigger map could change this but i wouldn't be so optimistic about it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In its current state, without movement chambers or any way to teleport to a hive location, aliens have to have quick access to all hives, and I will probably be adding more vents to accommodate this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are right that the lack of the shift hinders the movement of alien team. But I feel the vents give too much advantage to the alien team when used extensively. Aliens can easily decide when and where to fight. But as long as the corridors don't offer enough protection i guess vents can't be removed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Smelter and Westrail seem to be kind of unused areas. Only used to walk between alien start and Excavation, but nothing is really happening there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if the res nodes were more along the the routes connected to the tram and excavation hives? Especially the ones close to the marine start are kind boring gameplay wise as Basti described. The rts would make these areas worth fighting for.
Here's the link as a picture:
<img src="http://zeikko.fi/ns2/ns2_descentfeedback.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm happy to see that you rethought the map layout already. It is hard to say if your proposed layout would be good or not. But I fear that it might be too simple already. I think I like it more than the current one, to me something between them looks the most optimal solution.
<img src="http://zeikko.fi/ns2/ns2_descentsuggestion.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is what came to mind immediately after thinking about a suggestion. This would probably need scaling down the map a bit horizontally. I hope the suggestion atleast gives you some ideas. It's hard to think the map layout because even small changes make huge differences to the gameplay and it is pretty impossible to predict the changes.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At one point someone said it was more balanced than summit :) pretty high compliments for the first version of an alpha that had never been tested before... of course not everyone agreed with that comment :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was me :)
You didn't comment anything about the unbalanced tech point placement and the tram station tech point placement. Do you have an opinion about it?
1) The map look really white, like the fog is super dense, is it intentional ? Can you tune the fog ?
2) I'm a bit tired of the dark areas, it's a bit dull, I really liked the bright part with a lot of light (research I guess), it makes a great contrast with the rest. But I would like to have a bit more of lighter areas like that (command and tram station maybe).