Infestation model idea
Jaweese
Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58356Members
Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58356Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Expanding on the current design</div>The introduction of infestation has restricted the strategies available for the alien team. Specifically, aliens cannot expand farther than infestation lets them. It ensures that alien territory will remain confined to a small part of the map during the first several minutes of a round. The alien commander cannot invest early into economy, and alien structures rarely support players outside of a hive room (this affects whips especially). My idea is to lower the dependency of structures on infestation (cyst) networks.
* Infestation shouldn't be required for structure placement.
This change alone would fix all of the mentioned gameplay problems. However, I'd like to develop the idea of cyst chains and how they affect alien strategy.
* The cyst chain would provide structures with health and energy regeneration. Any structures not within range of the cyst chain will not receive these bonuses.
This would limit the functions of a disconnected structure to a very basic level because it won't have enough energy to use active abilities.
* DI would grow out from all structures regardless of whether they're connected to the cyst chain.
With this model, the commander would have many more options available. Let's say a commander wants to start off a game by building 3 harvesters on the west side of the map in Tram. He might choose to build a shade near that area, then build a cyst chain to it as energy allows. Since the connected shade would regenerate energy, he could actively cloak that area so that aliens can defend that point easily. Alternatively, he could choose to spread the cyst chain to the door east of alien start so that it stays unlocked for when he drops a hive in server room. I'm not sure if either of these strategies would work, but at least there would be an option to try them. It would open the door for crazier Starcraft-esque gameplay.
* Infestation shouldn't be required for structure placement.
This change alone would fix all of the mentioned gameplay problems. However, I'd like to develop the idea of cyst chains and how they affect alien strategy.
* The cyst chain would provide structures with health and energy regeneration. Any structures not within range of the cyst chain will not receive these bonuses.
This would limit the functions of a disconnected structure to a very basic level because it won't have enough energy to use active abilities.
* DI would grow out from all structures regardless of whether they're connected to the cyst chain.
With this model, the commander would have many more options available. Let's say a commander wants to start off a game by building 3 harvesters on the west side of the map in Tram. He might choose to build a shade near that area, then build a cyst chain to it as energy allows. Since the connected shade would regenerate energy, he could actively cloak that area so that aliens can defend that point easily. Alternatively, he could choose to spread the cyst chain to the door east of alien start so that it stays unlocked for when he drops a hive in server room. I'm not sure if either of these strategies would work, but at least there would be an option to try them. It would open the door for crazier Starcraft-esque gameplay.
Comments
1) This idea
2) The costs of cysts should be drastically reduced
3) A new structure which keeps infestation not connected to hives alive
As of right now, aliens are slow in expanding their territory. Although it may not seem like it now, once larger maps are released the problem will become more apparent.
Not to mention that in the earlier builds infestation was not required for harvesters either and marines were still able to put up a good fight.
As of right now, marines have an easier time turning the table on a losing game than do aliens, much of which seems to be due to the alien dependency on infestation.
However, at this point in development, it would be hard to say exactly how removing the infestation dependency would affect gameplay. The only way to know for sure is if a build is released where the aliens are not as dependent on infestation and the win: lose statistics were collected.
It's just a placeholder for further infestation development that allows Marines to fight growth without flamethrowers.
I like this idea. Infestation must be more easily spread since its so easily killed, by any marine with ANY weapon.
In the past I've said gorges should be dropping cysts that cost ENERGY, this would mean they can spam them at any location, helping spread infestation much quicker, and easier.
Problem here is that you'll have cysts EVERYWHERE. If it only costs energy, the first gorge that pops out will push every extractor on the map.
As it stands, the marines cannot realistically handle more than their adjacent res nodes; a change like that will cause a huge economic boost for the aliens and make a second hive much easier to grab.
As it stands, the marines cannot realistically handle more than their adjacent res nodes; a change like that will cause a huge economic boost for the aliens and make a second hive much easier to grab.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually is the real problem, infestation is easily killed and once its unconnected to the rest of the infestation it dies. So marines can kill infestation without required to have flamethrowers, and once infestation becomes unconnected, everything falls apart. So infestation right now is easily killed with any weapon.
IF cysts that gorges drop would cost energy only, it would ensure that gorges would actually spread infestation throughout the map much quicker, making infestation easy to kill but also easy to build. Since its easy to kill infestation, it should be easy to rebuild it.
But the OP of this thread has good ideas, and needs to be seriously reviewed by the developers since the way infestation works/spreads seriously nerfed and doesn't work as it needs to be.
This could naturally be helped along by the commander or gorges.
There are downsides to that but at least it will take some of the micromanagement away.
Spot on +1
It doesn't feel right for marines to have so much more strategic flexibility than aliens, and that is what my suggestion is trying to fix.
It doesn't feel right for marines to have so much more strategic flexibility than aliens, and that is what my suggestion is trying to fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The entire game would need to be re-balanced. Changing the game in this manner would imbalance it severely. It will not happen.
It doesn't feel right for marines to have so much more strategic flexibility than aliens, and that is what my suggestion is trying to fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it feels right. The Marines are fighting on their home turf; they start with the ability to move freely and pick which territories to hold. By contrast, the aliens have to take area slowly, but as they expand they become harder and harder to take out (due to things like hive sight Hydra beacheads).
In my opinion, Alien units should be flexible, but alien structures slower and tougher to move. The opposite is already true for Marines; it takes them a while to go from point A to point B, but once they get there they're one popped cyst away from dropping a power pack and a PG.
There are plenty of risks in early economy rush. No early upgrades - 3 bite kills instead of 2. It would put aliens on the defensive, giving marines an easier time building up their territory as well. Plus, I would expect at least 1-2 of those harvesters to die before they can pay for themselves. It's a high risk, high reward strategy that is counterable by aggressive marine play. There would only need to be minor changes, if any.
A minor change like forcing the marines to aggro at the start of every round instead of focusing on defense, in order to counter a possible Kharaa rush?
I hardly think completely flipping the building mobility and attack/defense roles of the two teams is a minor change.
That, to me, is a complete flip. The Marines are supposed to be the ones marking out the territory for the Kharaa to then devise an attack plan for. Just my two cents.
the problem is how easy infestation is being countered, and the difficulty it takes to spread it only hurts aliens. If infestation grew on its own, and it wasn't so easily killed maybe you be right but infestation suppose at this point feels like bag of rocks on the aliens back.
Making cysts that gorge drop cost energy only might help the spread of infestation much quicker, since gorges can spam them everywhere. Unless we change how infestation grows/spreads more naturally this problem won't be going away. Infestation currently is rather nerfing the aliens more then helping them. Before flamethrowers countered infestation, now its killed with such ease..if killing it is easy, rebuilding should as well.
Making cysts that gorge drop cost energy only might help the spread of infestation much quicker, since gorges can spam them everywhere. Unless we change how infestation grows/spreads more naturally this problem won't be going away. Infestation currently is rather nerfing the aliens more then helping them. Before flamethrowers countered infestation, now its killed with such ease..if killing it is easy, rebuilding should as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about a compromise then? What if the Kharaa Com could spend energy to expand "territory", an area in which Cysts can be freely placed for no PRes cost? That way, we make things like rushing DC still very costly for both the commander and gorge, but allow Kharaa to hold their own turf more effectively and bring the infestation model a bit closer to the finished product in function.
The DI how it works now brings way more depth in the game because if marines can sneak in Alien territory they can disconnect whole nests. Aliens especially the Com/Gorges have to react if a cyst turns grey, that also indicates that marines are nearby.
The DI how it works now brings way more depth in the game because if marines can sneak in Alien territory they can disconnect whole nests. Aliens especially the Com/Gorges have to react if a cyst turns grey,<b> that also indicates that marines are nearby.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that and the constant beacon showing their exact location on the infestation.
The DI how it works now brings way more depth in the game because if marines can sneak in Alien territory they can disconnect whole nests. Aliens especially the Com/Gorges have to react if a cyst turns grey, that also indicates that marines are nearby.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The depth of that tactic would actually <i>increase</i> with my idea. It currently takes 85 seconds for a disconnected cyst to die , which means it could be several minutes before the disconnected structures begin to die. That gives a commander / gorge an incredibly long time to react. With my suggestion, a cyst disconnect would be felt immediately. Players would have to time their attacks on cysts with more precision. Cutting the chain while the alien team is being seiged could be a great potential play.