Upgrade the marines
CannonFodder100
Join Date: 2011-09-14 Member: 121355Members
Join Date: 2011-09-14 Member: 121355Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Balance = more playtesters, right?</div>Instead of hamstringing the aliens, let's boost the marines! People say "this, that, OP OP OP" on the Aliens' side, but it's more that the marines are rather weak right now both statistically and strategically. I suggest adding an extra few projectiles to the shotgun's blast, making the flamer more effective against armor, and adding either damage or fire rate to the marine's rifle.
Statistical boosts will allow the marines a competitive edge, which will help attract folks who are becoming jaded with the constant one-sidedness of each match, and allow engine development to proceed faster with more available feedback. Obviously there'll be additions in the future that will break balance again, but we really need to get some of the community back in the game so we can reach that point!
Statistical boosts will allow the marines a competitive edge, which will help attract folks who are becoming jaded with the constant one-sidedness of each match, and allow engine development to proceed faster with more available feedback. Obviously there'll be additions in the future that will break balance again, but we really need to get some of the community back in the game so we can reach that point!
Comments
When im on alien side, marines look OP....
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When im on alien side, marines look OP....
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So true
But unfortuantly, when I am on the forums, Aliens look OP
When im on alien side, marines look OP....
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Its not perfect, but <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=186" target="_blank">this</a> is a relatively good indicator of which side is op. The downside is that it doesn't tell you why they are op or the best way to fix it.
You can't use this chart. If performance is slow it is way easier to play aliens than marines. A laggy skulk is almost imortal and the marines just rr/ragequit if it just a lottery if the PB SG you saw on your screen will be registred or not. It is just easier to play as aliens when ticks or fps are low. I don't think it is because of balance.
I'm quite skeptical that improved performance will favor marines very much. Laggy melee combat is almost as bad as laggy ranged combat, such that improved performance would also help skulk/lerk/fade almost as much as it does marines.
Also, the stat tracking captures the wins of the last 1000 games played, which should cover almost every conceivable combination of round time, player skill, playercount, lag that is reasonable with the current beta. From my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114175&hl=" target="_blank">earlier analysis</a>, NS2 would be 'balanced' if the 1000 game win stats showed one side had between 47% and 53% wins. The 67.4% alien wins for B186 show that it is very unlikely that the current beta is balanced nor would I expect it to be if we were magically able to make all the lag/stuttering/rubberbanding/etc go away.
In general however, I believe VAST performance improvements are needed before true balancing can begin. I am grateful the UWE is tweaking the balance for those of us who play the beta, but it is clear theses balances are only for the beta IMO. At this point I feel the incomplete tech tree and lower performance are the real balance issues. Give the game time to develop, and adjust balance elements one at a time. If we try to change multiple elements of the game, we won't be sure what effect each element had.
Also, the stat tracking captures the wins of the last 1000 games played, which should cover almost every conceivable combination of round time, player skill, playercount, lag that is reasonable with the current beta. From my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114175&hl=" target="_blank">earlier analysis</a>, NS2 would be 'balanced' if the 1000 game win stats showed one side had between 47% and 53% wins. The 67.4% alien wins for B186 show that it is very unlikely that the current beta is balanced nor would I expect it to be if we were magically able to make all the lag/stuttering/rubberbanding/etc go away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So this chart is mixed in builds? 185 maybe but for sure 186 and 187 if I understand it right.
Another problem I saw today was that often no one wants to go marine com and if so they only drop ips and an armory. And players that often go com also want to play normal so that a newer player or less expirienced one goes com. And why? Because it is pure stress.
Alien com is the most chilling way to play NS2. You have almost nothing to do if you have 1 or 2 gorges.
That often results in marines lacking on upgrades and tech. For example:
•As alien you drop a whip and go melee 1 and frenzy and 1 RT.
•As marine 1. Ip 2. Armory 3. Armslab 4. Armor 1 and your res are gone.
But this is another thing.
Sideread why comanding is stress if interessted:
I played a long 7vs7 game 1 hour ago with a good marine team and an newer com that did a the best he could, (we explained anything to him and asked about status quo) but the Alien keeped us busy all the time and they managed the sneak a 2. Hive up in heli. And later X and DC. So our com left and we managed to get FC back.
So I went com. It was hard but we managed to go to DC and build a 2. base. And the horror began. It was like a WC3 game. Building here, repairing there, refilling sentrys, dropping meds, scaning for cloaked aliens, calling a beacon, request here, base beeing attacked over there, sentry firing somewhere, ammo request from 3 sides.... It was stress, stress, stress.
The aliens died and 2s later they were here again and again and again. There was no break.
We had to lockdown each hive with IPs, CC, Armory PG, PP, and 4 sentrys. And all bases were all the time under attack keeping me busy with macs and beacon.
But we finally managed to get 4 ARCs to X-Roads covered by almost al Marines to finish the game.
Thank god I had such a well playing team! And sorry K.O.T. That i was standing behind the wires.
It was for me the best round on NS2 and the hardest RTS experience i had since Red Alert 2.
I guess the marines will still lose, even with a new animation system (leads to better accuracy overall), but then more balance related changes will be done. Until then, it's difficult to say which team is really ahead. all feedback is falsified somehow, and also big parts of the tech trees are missing.
You're right, Schimmel, and I agree that we really do need some additional tech - game-enders for both races, for one - before we can possibly establish any lasting balance.