<!--quoteo(post=1925272:date=Apr 14 2012, 09:56 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Apr 14 2012, 09:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This also results in fast paced and fun gameplay. Something the official mappers could learn from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1925272:date=Apr 14 2012, 01:56 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Apr 14 2012, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This also results in fast paced and fun gameplay. Something the official mappers could learn from. Kind of agreed with player's post above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to get some lessons about architecture, I come from le Corbusier hometown but I know close to nothing about him.
Something I didn't liked too much in the last version was the power node at gate, not having to build power for each rt at the beginning actually makes a big difference.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
Good point Yuuki!
Seeing that I wish to make backup a starting point, I am still uncertain about power nodes. What I could do is have a central powernode which covers everything in Marine territory between backup and quarters.
Or, and what I was leading to with power in Gate. A powernode in quarters that powers 2 (main and gen) a power that powers 2 in backup (main and reactor view) and I guess a power that covers 2 (gate and hall).
The first could be an interesting challenge.
/ And a little off topic about LeCorbusier.
I think to understand his architecture you first have to understand what he called his 5 points of modern architecture. In previous western architecture, spaces are defined by structural loading walls, posts and lintels. Using the advantages of reinforced concrete he could move away from that and define spaces that are not strictly enclosed and have a different structural logic. Depending on the program he could then define a philosophical meaning to openings from outside to inside. A house for example could start to become a machine for living (in his words) that is not separated from the outside world. His famous church at Ronchamps in contrary is the opposite, it is in contrary a machine to cut you away from the world for internal meditation. This is in a nutshell, each project is an example in itself and as much as I am not always terribly fond of his purism, his ideas were of emancipation from the rules. Rules are often made at the limits of our understanding, like a wall to protect us from the unknown.
His most celebrated buildings are la villa savoye. We can see how the house is an internal space, yet somehow connects to the outside. <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tYFJYg6bGTY/TbSDa0NGp4I/AAAAAAAAAAw/xdHtZNsuIKI/s1600/villa%20savoye-le%20corbusier.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And his famous church, Notre dame de Ronchamps. We can see how this building will enclose us into a meditative place. <img src="http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/Corbu/ronchamp1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1925362:date=Apr 14 2012, 05:32 PM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Apr 14 2012, 05:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have played NS2's official maps right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, takes forever to get around the map, and then suddenly you're stuck on something. Seriously though, it is something that should be considered. For example, on mineshaft, marines have a very tough time pressuring alien RTs due to the very long walking distances to them. The game becomes more static, and marines will need an outpost to have any kind of map control. On turtle, you can walk anywhere with relative ease.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
Some of the posts in this thread recently disgust me...
From my experience ns2_turtle gets far more playtime than other maps competitively, considering it is not even counted as an official map yet.
We choose it because it is <b>better</b> than the others. It is not better by random chance or luck, but better because of the philosophy and understanding used when creating it.
Instead of people (PTs, Devs, etc) making suggestions or criticisms, they should be asking questions. You should be aiming for the quality of gameplay in ns2_turtle, not trying to make it conform. We play it because we like it, we don't want it to be like <b>your</b> official maps.
Not only has ns2_turtle been the best performance map, it has also been the most balanced. These are things other mappers (official or not) should be aiming for.
Evil_bOb has given me (and the gather community) many of the most thrilling and exciting games of NS2 so far. We love what you do bOb, please keep doing it!
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Love is my game man ;) In a world where confusion, frustration and hate is the norm, love has to be portrayed as the evil one. I know who I am and I know the message I am to bring, and I know the root of the true evil that plagues our era.
"Constructive criticism" is the same figure of speech as "zero tolerance." There is tolerance and intolerance, zero tolerance is intolerance yet this figure of speech makes you believe it is a form of tolerance. Confusion in the mind. There is construction and destruction, constructive criticism is destruction yet the figure of speech makes you believe it is a form of construction. Confusion in the mind.
<!--quoteo(post=1925380:date=Apr 14 2012, 07:51 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Apr 14 2012, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of people (PTs, Devs, etc) making suggestions or criticisms, they should be asking questions. You should be aiming for the quality of gameplay in ns2_turtle, not trying to make it conform. We play it because we like it, we don't want it to be like <b>your</b> official maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't really want to post, but how did you get the idea that the PT group/UWE wants to make the map conform? 1 person posted feedback here because he wanted, not representing anyone but himself. This got out of proportion VERY fast, with people getting deffensive, and it's such a sad thing.
It's obvious that the map had input from the competitive scene, which is great, if more maps (and the game itself) had more input from it I'm sure we would all benefit. Now, I normally wouldn't have to say this because it should be obvious, but THIS IS MY OPINION AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF THE PT GROUP BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A SINGLE UNIT WITH A SINGLE MINDSET. Everyone in the PT group will have different opinions and I don't think it is fair that an entire group gets attacked gratuitously like this.
Also, we are not balancing the game or making design decisions as you may be led to believe, for god knows what reason. We just make sure ###### works as intended and if it doesn't we report the bug and that's it, that is our (current) mission, they might ask for initial feedback before releasing stuff, but it doesn't mean they will do whatever we tell them to do, we do not have that kind of influence on the game. We also have a number of competitive players in the group, and I'm sure the number will grow the closer we move to a content complete game for sure.
I will repeat, that in my own opinion UWE should have been listening more closely to the comp. scene, it doesn't need to be implemented 100% of the things said/suggested, but you can learn a lot from it. That doesn't mean I think the PT group is filled of useless people with no insight on the game, because that's not the truth at all.
And to reiterate... some people may like the map, others may not like it, others may have not played it... but do not extrapolate from a single forum post because that's not doing anyone any favours.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion and I maybe I shouldn't have even posted this because I know how it's going to end up, but seriously... this is prejudice at its best.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited April 2012
Too much drama for one single thread.
I have seen this in many situations and especially in gaming communities and never really understood why, but if you take a bunch of people, they <b>will</b> separate into groups and these groups <b>will not</b> like each other and generally also produce some kind of conspiracy theories. Edit: Also, any kind of behaviour (or perceived/interpreted behavior) from an individual <b>will</b> always be considered a general trait of their group. Any statement one makes will always be received as the general opinion of the whole group.
If you "forcibly" separate people into groups (like a developer group, a playtester group and a "normal guys" group), the same will happen, maybe even worse than it usually would, because in these cases one group has some kind of control over another. In this example, the developers can dictate how playtesters and "normal guys" experience the game (and with that, whether it was worth to buy the game or invest time into it for every individual seperately), while the playtesters don't have direct control, but some kind of vague/undefined influence on the developers. This influence is actually worse than direct control and can produce more hate in the other groups because it is not clearly defined and people always fear the unknown. It's kind of like a feeling of "people who lick the developer's butt are telling them how to develop the game and this is why the game sucks" (because licking a butt requires neither intelligence nor education). This produces loads of conspiracy theories, which are mostly feelings of "they don't want me to enjoy this game", which is of course the most silly thing you could ever think, but people do think it, even if subconciously.
Just look at the WoW forums. Every second post is about how a developer named "X" favors this or that particular class and wants it to be overpowered. The other posts are about how playergroup "Y" (e.g. casual vs. hardcore) destroys the gaming experience for their own group and how developers always only listen to that group "Y".
Unfortunately, there is no way to correct this other than to educate people on how their own mind and group behavior work. Playtesters, you will have to endure this kind of resentment.
Concerning the map: I do agree that Evil_bOb1 does break the rules and the rules are there for a reason, but he does it consciously and does a very good job at providing a very dynamic experience on his map. I can't see how having a few areas level over level utterly destroys the whole game balance. It provides very interesting gameplay as positioning now actually matters for whether you can get commander support. It's a conscious decision you have to make as a player, instead of just a frustrating hindrance. Besides, I think it was also a conscious decision to call them mapping <u><b>guidelines</b></u> instead of rules.
<!--quoteo(post=1925405:date=Apr 14 2012, 09:46 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Apr 14 2012, 09:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playtesters, you will have to endure this kind of resentment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's kind of expected, I mean, I get why people would think we're a bunch of yes-men since it's not clear what the group's main focus is, although I think Hugh casted a "real" test once where we were testing bug fixes. So you see a change or new feature that you see as a horrible idea and your immediate thought is: "wtf, how can this go through the internal testing, the PTs were okay with this? They must be idiots/they don't understand the game/they're a bunch of ass-lickers". I would probably think that too if I didn't know how things work.
Hopefully we can get the thread back on track now that things a little more clarified? :)
Thanks for the awesome map Evil_bob. Can't wait to try out the new version. Your map just feels fresh and is very good gameplay vice. Just keep doing what your doing and your map will definitely be on of the top maps in ns2.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1925479:date=Apr 15 2012, 01:44 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Apr 15 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's kind of expected, I mean, I get why people would think we're a bunch of yes-men since it's not clear what the group's main focus is, although I think Hugh casted a "real" test once where we were testing bug fixes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps expecting it means you read far too much into what others say. I used "Devs, PTs, etc" to refer to the exact people who had posted here already to which my reply was intended, the people with Dev/PT next to their names. How dare I?!
As you mentioned, yes people are being overly defensive!
<!--quoteo(post=1925578:date=Apr 15 2012, 01:34 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Apr 15 2012, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps expecting it means you read far too much into what others say. I used "Devs, PTs, etc" to refer to the exact people who had posted here already to which my reply was intended, the people with Dev/PT next to their names. How dare I?!
As you mentioned, yes people are being overly defensive!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That post of mine you quoted was clearly in response to the discussion about the image some people may have of the group, not what you posted, so not sure why you use a different post for this reply.
By the way, I'm not reading far too much into what others say, you have to read the thread and see for yourself how for example the playtesters were not educated to understand the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1925438:date=Apr 14 2012, 05:18 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Apr 14 2012, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing in particular the official maps need to learn from turtle is the multicoloured rainbow rave room. /hides<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
come out of hiding, easter egg rave rooms make the world go round.
<!--quoteo(post=1925438:date=Apr 15 2012, 12:18 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Apr 15 2012, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing in particular the official maps need to learn from turtle is the multicoloured rainbow rave room. /hides<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The rainbow room is my work, so the joke is on me...
(current turtle version b2c1 is modified by me, compleatly changed the lighting and made some minor adjustments like moving the gate rt a tiny bit away from the wall so skulks dont get stuck by legs, added some light props, a vent from loading into engine, some textures and added light props, 2 ladders etc.)
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1925598:date=Apr 15 2012, 07:44 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Apr 15 2012, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925598"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, I'm not reading far too much into what others say, you have to read the thread and see for yourself how for example the playtesters were not educated to understand the map.
But please, can we go back to the thread now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have already excused myself from saying that in a way that might of been harsh, but there is some truth in it. I am not a product of school and I haven't been taught things by the book, and that is why I don't not like when someone comes with his book, shows it to me, and says do what the book tells you. I have been educated orally. From masters to apprentice. The education I got cannot be taught in a book because it relies on experience. In a sense I haven't been taught anything, but taught to learn and read the signs, understand something by myself and find my own answers. My mentors go from world reknown physicists, mathematicians, geologists, artists, architects, historians, writers, musicians, healers, shamans, monks, martial art masters, warriors, intelligence agents, strategists and chefs.
Because my education was specific to me, it is an education that no one can have but me. So no one but me can fully understand what has gone down in this map.
In this post I do not defend myself, but like everyone of my other posts I have tried to explain some of the ideas on which this map is based, these posts are not an attack neither. I do not hold that the map is perfect and I know this very well. The map gone has through many iterations already and it will continue to improve. I love feedback, and depend heavily on it, but pointing out issues on which I am already aware of doesn't really help. The best way someone can help is bring ideas, not telling that there is something wrong, because we all know what is going wrong. Stating so just moves us backwards, we want to move forward and this means to give suggestions and ideas.
Again, like in the thread above I provide a layout in jpeg format which you can find <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>. If you want to help, bring ideas and suggestions, bring something that moves us forward. You reap what you sow, and when you come with a negative thought, you will leave with a negative thought.
I can do very well without the negative posts, and people that come to show hate rather than love. If you come with hate, even if I show you love you will think it is hate. Some have come with hate, but I have took their words in love. I should of known not to answer back to those with hate because they would only get hate from it.
I hope Mendasp that is not your case, and understand I am not trying to put down with this post, but uplift. Those who can hear will hear, and I hope that if this post can uplift just a few that come to read it, it will have its meaning.
I played a bit on this map with arc/ex as a lerk and what I really noticed is the huge amount of automatic doors, they're so irritating as a lerk because they just stop you in your tracks and there's so many, is this the whole point of having so many, to slow down lerks? Not to mention there's a lot of tight spaces which was annoying as a lerk aswell. Either way I found it just not-fun because of this.
Aside from the annoying doors I really liked the map. The windows on the Bridge area need a different glass texture with some scratches on it or something because it looks like there's no glass there at all and you can just jump out in to space or something.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Turtle is currently at 995 downloads on the Duplex gaming site. I'm sure it will hit the Magic 1000 while I am at work or asleep, so I'd like to say congratulations now. This is a brilliantly fun map, I just don't understand why it's not been added to community server rotations.
If you have a active web community and servers, please host this map on your servers and get it out to the community for more fun and new maps to play.
Comments
Hah.
You have played NS2's official maps right?
Kind of agreed with player's post above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz64/Kemisz86/Explanation-demotivational-poster.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/wagwan.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'd love to get some lessons about architecture, I come from le Corbusier hometown but I know close to nothing about him.
Something I didn't liked too much in the last version was the power node at gate, not having to build power for each rt at the beginning actually makes a big difference.
Seeing that I wish to make backup a starting point, I am still uncertain about power nodes. What I could do is have a central powernode which covers everything in Marine territory between backup and quarters.
Or, and what I was leading to with power in Gate. A powernode in quarters that powers 2 (main and gen) a power that powers 2 in backup (main and reactor view) and I guess a power that covers 2 (gate and hall).
The first could be an interesting challenge.
/ And a little off topic about LeCorbusier.
I think to understand his architecture you first have to understand what he called his 5 points of modern architecture. In previous western architecture, spaces are defined by structural loading walls, posts and lintels. Using the advantages of reinforced concrete he could move away from that and define spaces that are not strictly enclosed and have a different structural logic. Depending on the program he could then define a philosophical meaning to openings from outside to inside. A house for example could start to become a machine for living (in his words) that is not separated from the outside world. His famous church at Ronchamps in contrary is the opposite, it is in contrary a machine to cut you away from the world for internal meditation. This is in a nutshell, each project is an example in itself and as much as I am not always terribly fond of his purism, his ideas were of emancipation from the rules. Rules are often made at the limits of our understanding, like a wall to protect us from the unknown.
His most celebrated buildings are la villa savoye. We can see how the house is an internal space, yet somehow connects to the outside.
<img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tYFJYg6bGTY/TbSDa0NGp4I/AAAAAAAAAAw/xdHtZNsuIKI/s1600/villa%20savoye-le%20corbusier.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And his famous church, Notre dame de Ronchamps. We can see how this building will enclose us into a meditative place.
<img src="http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/Corbu/ronchamp1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Yea, takes forever to get around the map, and then suddenly you're stuck on something.
Seriously though, it is something that should be considered.
For example, on mineshaft, marines have a very tough time pressuring alien RTs due to the very long walking distances to them.
The game becomes more static, and marines will need an outpost to have any kind of map control.
On turtle, you can walk anywhere with relative ease.
From my experience ns2_turtle gets far more playtime than other maps competitively, considering it is not even counted as an official map yet.
We choose it because it is <b>better</b> than the others. It is not better by random chance or luck, but better because of the philosophy and understanding used when creating it.
Instead of people (PTs, Devs, etc) making suggestions or criticisms, they should be asking questions. You should be aiming for the quality of gameplay in ns2_turtle, not trying to make it conform. We play it because we like it, we don't want it to be like <b>your</b> official maps.
Not only has ns2_turtle been the best performance map, it has also been the most balanced. These are things other mappers (official or not) should be aiming for.
Evil_bOb has given me (and the gather community) many of the most thrilling and exciting games of NS2 so far. We love what you do bOb, please keep doing it!
"Constructive criticism" is the same figure of speech as "zero tolerance." There is tolerance and intolerance, zero tolerance is intolerance yet this figure of speech makes you believe it is a form of tolerance. Confusion in the mind. There is construction and destruction, constructive criticism is destruction yet the figure of speech makes you believe it is a form of construction. Confusion in the mind.
Those who can hear will hear.
I didn't really want to post, but how did you get the idea that the PT group/UWE wants to make the map conform? 1 person posted feedback here because he wanted, not representing anyone but himself. This got out of proportion VERY fast, with people getting deffensive, and it's such a sad thing.
It's obvious that the map had input from the competitive scene, which is great, if more maps (and the game itself) had more input from it I'm sure we would all benefit. Now, I normally wouldn't have to say this because it should be obvious, but THIS IS MY OPINION AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF THE PT GROUP BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A SINGLE UNIT WITH A SINGLE MINDSET. Everyone in the PT group will have different opinions and I don't think it is fair that an entire group gets attacked gratuitously like this.
Also, we are not balancing the game or making design decisions as you may be led to believe, for god knows what reason. We just make sure ###### works as intended and if it doesn't we report the bug and that's it, that is our (current) mission, they might ask for initial feedback before releasing stuff, but it doesn't mean they will do whatever we tell them to do, we do not have that kind of influence on the game. We also have a number of competitive players in the group, and I'm sure the number will grow the closer we move to a content complete game for sure.
I will repeat, that in my own opinion UWE should have been listening more closely to the comp. scene, it doesn't need to be implemented 100% of the things said/suggested, but you can learn a lot from it. That doesn't mean I think the PT group is filled of useless people with no insight on the game, because that's not the truth at all.
And to reiterate... some people may like the map, others may not like it, others may have not played it... but do not extrapolate from a single forum post because that's not doing anyone any favours.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion and I maybe I shouldn't have even posted this because I know how it's going to end up, but seriously... this is prejudice at its best.
I have seen this in many situations and especially in gaming communities and never really understood why, but if you take a bunch of people, they <b>will</b> separate into groups and these groups <b>will not</b> like each other and generally also produce some kind of conspiracy theories.
Edit: Also, any kind of behaviour (or perceived/interpreted behavior) from an individual <b>will</b> always be considered a general trait of their group. Any statement one makes will always be received as the general opinion of the whole group.
If you "forcibly" separate people into groups (like a developer group, a playtester group and a "normal guys" group), the same will happen, maybe even worse than it usually would, because in these cases one group has some kind of control over another.
In this example, the developers can dictate how playtesters and "normal guys" experience the game (and with that, whether it was worth to buy the game or invest time into it for every individual seperately), while the playtesters don't have direct control, but some kind of vague/undefined influence on the developers.
This influence is actually worse than direct control and can produce more hate in the other groups because it is not clearly defined and people always fear the unknown. It's kind of like a feeling of "people who lick the developer's butt are telling them how to develop the game and this is why the game sucks" (because licking a butt requires neither intelligence nor education). This produces loads of conspiracy theories, which are mostly feelings of "they don't want me to enjoy this game", which is of course the most silly thing you could ever think, but people do think it, even if subconciously.
Just look at the WoW forums. Every second post is about how a developer named "X" favors this or that particular class and wants it to be overpowered. The other posts are about how playergroup "Y" (e.g. casual vs. hardcore) destroys the gaming experience for their own group and how developers always only listen to that group "Y".
Unfortunately, there is no way to correct this other than to educate people on how their own mind and group behavior work. Playtesters, you will have to endure this kind of resentment.
Concerning the map: I do agree that Evil_bOb1 does break the rules and the rules are there for a reason, but he does it consciously and does a very good job at providing a very dynamic experience on his map. I can't see how having a few areas level over level utterly destroys the whole game balance. It provides very interesting gameplay as positioning now actually matters for whether you can get commander support. It's a conscious decision you have to make as a player, instead of just a frustrating hindrance.
Besides, I think it was also a conscious decision to call them mapping <u><b>guidelines</b></u> instead of rules.
/hides
It's kind of expected, I mean, I get why people would think we're a bunch of yes-men since it's not clear what the group's main focus is, although I think Hugh casted a "real" test once where we were testing bug fixes. So you see a change or new feature that you see as a horrible idea and your immediate thought is: "wtf, how can this go through the internal testing, the PTs were okay with this? They must be idiots/they don't understand the game/they're a bunch of ass-lickers". I would probably think that too if I didn't know how things work.
Hopefully we can get the thread back on track now that things a little more clarified? :)
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle.jpg" target="_blank">For ease of access, you can download the overview in jpeg format here.</a>
Perhaps expecting it means you read far too much into what others say. I used "Devs, PTs, etc" to refer to the exact people who had posted here already to which my reply was intended, the people with Dev/PT next to their names. How dare I?!
As you mentioned, yes people are being overly defensive!
As you mentioned, yes people are being overly defensive!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That post of mine you quoted was clearly in response to the discussion about the image some people may have of the group, not what you posted, so not sure why you use a different post for this reply.
By the way, I'm not reading far too much into what others say, you have to read the thread and see for yourself how for example the playtesters were not educated to understand the map.
But please, can we go back to the thread now?
/hides<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
come out of hiding, easter egg rave rooms make the world go round.
/hides<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The rainbow room is my work, so the joke is on me...
(current turtle version b2c1 is modified by me, compleatly changed the lighting and made some minor adjustments like moving the gate rt a tiny bit away from the wall so skulks dont get stuck by legs, added some light props, a vent from loading into engine, some textures and added light props, 2 ladders etc.)
But please, can we go back to the thread now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have already excused myself from saying that in a way that might of been harsh, but there is some truth in it. I am not a product of school and I haven't been taught things by the book, and that is why I don't not like when someone comes with his book, shows it to me, and says do what the book tells you. I have been educated orally. From masters to apprentice. The education I got cannot be taught in a book because it relies on experience. In a sense I haven't been taught anything, but taught to learn and read the signs, understand something by myself and find my own answers. My mentors go from world reknown physicists, mathematicians, geologists, artists, architects, historians, writers, musicians, healers, shamans, monks, martial art masters, warriors, intelligence agents, strategists and chefs.
Because my education was specific to me, it is an education that no one can have but me. So no one but me can fully understand what has gone down in this map.
In this post I do not defend myself, but like everyone of my other posts I have tried to explain some of the ideas on which this map is based, these posts are not an attack neither. I do not hold that the map is perfect and I know this very well. The map gone has through many iterations already and it will continue to improve. I love feedback, and depend heavily on it, but pointing out issues on which I am already aware of doesn't really help. The best way someone can help is bring ideas, not telling that there is something wrong, because we all know what is going wrong. Stating so just moves us backwards, we want to move forward and this means to give suggestions and ideas.
Again, like in the thread above I provide a layout in jpeg format which you can find <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>. If you want to help, bring ideas and suggestions, bring something that moves us forward. You reap what you sow, and when you come with a negative thought, you will leave with a negative thought.
I can do very well without the negative posts, and people that come to show hate rather than love. If you come with hate, even if I show you love you will think it is hate. Some have come with hate, but I have took their words in love. I should of known not to answer back to those with hate because they would only get hate from it.
I hope Mendasp that is not your case, and understand I am not trying to put down with this post, but uplift. Those who can hear will hear, and I hope that if this post can uplift just a few that come to read it, it will have its meaning.
Peace and Blessings to you all! :D
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbX8n9cSnYo" target="_blank">text link to video</a>
A turtle's shell of a game :) (game starts at 7:50)
On a map without rules, gamers respect nothing ;)
Its all about having fun!
Aside from the annoying doors I really liked the map. The windows on the Bridge area need a different glass texture with some scratches on it or something because it looks like there's no glass there at all and you can just jump out in to space or something.
If you have a active web community and servers, please host this map on your servers and get it out to the community for more fun and new maps to play.