IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
aliens dont need a buff. they just need the gorge to be more interesting / have more options. making the gorge a tank, once again, does not accomplish this.
<!--quoteo(post=1882800:date=Oct 31 2011, 06:51 AM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 31 2011, 06:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Simply, give him more health and armor. Let the gorge be the tank of the skulk pack. He'll be standing in the open spraying out heals. If marines focus fire on the gorge, the skulks will simply rip apart the squad of marines. This forces marines to be more cautious when engaging gorges to see if there are any skulks waiting for marines to take the bait. So marines would have to kill all of the skulks first, then kill the gorge last.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This already happens in scrims, we're not the best marines but we get regularly raped by gorge/skulks or gorge/lerks pushes.
<!--quoteo(post=1882723:date=Oct 30 2011, 06:17 PM:name=Gertjan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gertjan @ Oct 30 2011, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When the gorge gets more building options the alien commander has no use, I think gorge should be more like a defending class..
1st : Gorge should do better healing against themself and teammates
2nd : I think it would be great if the gorge has he's web again. The gorge should have the option to set up blockades for the marines, so they can't go through a certain hallway because of the web (wich should be hard to see, should maybe look like some sort of spit that is hard to see :) ) When marines run into the web they are slowed and maybe the guns should block or something? or slow walking and rotating and mouse movement, just something effective :), wich makes it great for aliens to defend and ambush.
3rd: Maybe the gorge should have another building like Hydra's? Maybe something like a whip? Or gorge should be able to set some sort of traps? maybe hydra's with a parasite ? or a "cyst" that explodes when you run into it and it blinds the marine for like 2 or 3 second ? Maybe instead of a defense chamber a small healing tower ( less then cragg ofcourse )? Maybe give gorge an ability to run on walls for a few sec? Or another sort of hydra that shoots something slimey and 1/3 times blocks the marine gun for a second?
Anyways it would be nice if gorge had a more defending role in the game, by setting up ambushes and traps or slow the marines etc etc etc
Because alien commander is now THE builder, gorge should be more defensive,support and should be able to set some traps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1.
And for those saying being gorge is boring like it is by now, gorge is what i like to play the most in ns2 :P i love being a gorge in a group of gorges, all healing each one and rushing bile bombs everywhere
<!--quoteo(post=1883069:date=Nov 1 2011, 11:26 AM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Nov 1 2011, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges should have bhop, celerity, and be able to drop structures that provide upgrades/resources/area benefits for team mates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want to copy NS1 then. Isn't that a bit boring? You can play NS1 if you want NS1 gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1883081:date=Nov 1 2011, 06:12 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Nov 1 2011, 06:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you want to copy NS1 then. Isn't that a bit boring? You can play NS1 if you want NS1 gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could always make the analogy of CS/CSS and how people transitioned quite well to that.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1883082:date=Nov 1 2011, 01:37 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 1 2011, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could always make the analogy of CS/CSS and how people transitioned quite well to that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about gorge spit being able to heal friendly target? Heal spray being up close and more like a shotgun of heal should obviously heal more. The gorge's role is really confused.
I say make the transition to either field medic or ranged support.
A. Gorge Spit heals friendly target, Gorge heal spray... heals, and say bile bomb creates a spot on the ground (say a puddle of spit) that damages structures but can heal friendlies if they stand in it. All his abilities are heal orientated but still have some ranged support.
or
B. Up gorge spit/lessen energy needed. Keep heal spray. Extend the splash damage of bile bomb. Bring back webs. Allow gorges to drop mini structures of each chamber to give the passive effect only. (see Schimmel's mod for more info).
Since losing the ability to build meaningful structures (chambers) i have lost interest in my fav class. Many people bring up good points. Either way i dont think anyone will say the gorge is perfect as is. =)
<!--quoteo(post=1883081:date=Nov 1 2011, 10:12 AM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Nov 1 2011, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you want to copy NS1 then. Isn't that a bit boring? You can play NS1 if you want NS1 gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I felt like saying that I loved the gorge and it has a big roll in NS2 but then I would be lying loads.
Well, about its role; I love the gorge :D
Anyway, more to the point, unknown worlds created a poor excuse of a gorge and introduced it into NS2. The introduction of the Alien Commander just made the gorge roll off a cl0rf and die....
I wished they would actually do something to make the gorge useful for a team. As soon as the alien commander can afford to put down crag chambers then they might as well just turn into skulks/fades.
What they need to do is allow the gorge to create mini-chambers for the cost of ~5 PRes and as Goblin said "Commander would upgrade to normal chamber" for the price of another ~5 PRes, this would make a connection with the commander and the Gorge (This could be the start of a commander/Gorge relationship). Then they would have a slight impact of the effectiveness of the team. A way to choose what structure to build could be simply a scroll of the mouse-wheel or something. Or maybe like in Counterstrike: Source how you press 4 repeatedly to choose the grenade.
Anyway:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>I want an improved gorge!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1884773:date=Nov 12 2011, 05:07 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Nov 12 2011, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I felt like saying that I loved the gorge and it has a big roll in NS2 but then I would be lying loads.
Well, about its role; I love the gorge :D
Anyway, more to the point, unknown worlds created a poor excuse of a gorge and introduced it into NS2. The introduction of the Alien Commander just made the gorge roll off a cl0rf and die....
I wished they would actually do something to make the gorge useful for a team. As soon as the alien commander can afford to put down crag chambers then they might as well just turn into skulks/fades.
What they need to do is allow the gorge to create mini-chambers for the cost of ~5 PRes and as Goblin said "Commander would upgrade to normal chamber" for the price of another ~5 PRes, this would make a connection with the commander and the Gorge (This could be the start of a commander/Gorge relationship). Then they would have a slight impact of the effectiveness of the team. A way to choose what structure to build could be simply a scroll of the mouse-wheel or something. Or maybe like in Counterstrike: Source how you press 4 repeatedly to choose the grenade.
Anyway:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>I want an improved gorge!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1882669:date=Oct 29 2011, 06:36 PM:name=slayerkl2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slayerkl2 @ Oct 29 2011, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bile Mines. 1 more defensive way for gorges to plant traps and get kills. bring back webbing but only on infestation. So gorges can then set other traps rather than just surprise hydras. Make them the masters of infestation, not the illegal whose raking your leaves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bring back web and all is well, maybe a web structure instead of a web instant.
gorge should have some greater psi power, so she/he can knockdown groups of marines, plus the ability to teleport around the map, so she/he can be one more then one front and heal the weak, skulks, fades, oni and stuff :P
it would be a Psorge! :) with glowing blue eyes! which eat yoaa souls!
<!--quoteo(post=1884903:date=Nov 14 2011, 12:01 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Nov 14 2011, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->cory wrote already several times that the gorge will get more utility. he will be very funny to play (i hope!) when i'm done with him<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1884849:date=Nov 13 2011, 07:43 PM:name=Trainee.ger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trainee.ger @ Nov 13 2011, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->gorge should have some greater psi power, so she/he can knockdown groups of marines, plus the ability to teleport around the map, so she/he can be one more then one front and heal the weak, skulks, fades, oni and stuff :P
it would be a Psorge! :) with glowing blue eyes! which eat yoaa souls!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1885093:date=Nov 15 2011, 09:07 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 15 2011, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.existence-unknown.com/_gallery3/comic/page47.html" target="_blank">How can you lot live with yourself!?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1885093:date=Nov 16 2011, 02:07 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 16 2011, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.existence-unknown.com/_gallery3/comic/page47.html" target="_blank">How can you lot live with yourself!?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1885410:date=Nov 17 2011, 11:21 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 17 2011, 11:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Havnt read a single comment where anyone says he wants to get rid of the gorge... especially not from devs. :X<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm purely slapping the title of this thread around a bit :P
Maybe I don't know anything about anything. But, in the off chance I do:
Considering the amount of time I've logged as both com and Gorge (more in NS1 than NS2, but still a decent amount in NS2), I feel as though a small wrench was thrown into the mix with the alien commander. To me the reason the alien team could afford to have 1-3 gorges on a 6-10 team size is that the other classes out powered the marines 1-1. That is, given equal skill, a fade would kill a jp and an onos would kill a heavy on a one to one battle. Which is why the old NS was balanced in a way that the marines are forced to work in groups to prevent losses. Even with a team of six and only one gorge though, it was still balanced enough as the gorge could not be everywhere at once and providing support here and there, it required coordination and the help of the gorge for serious assaults (who doesn't remember gorgie loving?) So, over all there HAD to be a gorge, and the gorge was an extremely valuable asset to the team.
What is the current state of things though? If the aliens happen to get a commander, then they are already down one man there. If they get a gorge, they are down two. If they get two gorges they are down three. Considering that gorges are no longer essential they see much less play time - esp. considering that if they are a skilled player their resources are FAR better spent as a fade. What needs to be done is make the gorge a worthwhile investment on the alien team. Previously they could afford them because the marines would always be down a man. Now that they are equal they cannot afford to take a man off the team when the marines are equally staffed. The marines do not, and will not, have a support class. Hell, with macs they don't even need to build if they have a competent commander. This leaves the aliens requiring far more man power on the ground than previously. In NS 1 some marines were needed to build everything, and one was always in the CC. Now no marines are needed to build by mid game and the aliens match the marines loss in the CC. Thus, there's no NEED for the gorge, and even if you give him web and turn him into a support class, unless the marines are also given some form of support class that is as ineffective at combat as the gorge, then the aliens will always see little use of the gorge because of him being required for actual killing.
Imagine if we gave the gorge web to counter JPs. lets say it's a 8v8, or rather 7v7 (Commanders). If two people go gorges to counter jps that will be zipping about the map (the gorge is not known for its quick speed) then we are down to 5v7. What team in the right mind would take such a hit for webs when fades can swipe the jps out of the sky?
Just some thoughts...
Rant about alien commander I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
<!--quoteo(post=1885472:date=Nov 18 2011, 12:12 PM:name=mezimors)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mezimors @ Nov 18 2011, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe I don't know anything about anything. But, in the off chance I do:
Considering the amount of time I've logged as both com and Gorge (more in NS1 than NS2, but still a decent amount in NS2), I feel as though a small wrench was thrown into the mix with the alien commander. To me the reason the alien team could afford to have 1-3 gorges on a 6-10 team size is that the other classes out powered the marines 1-1. That is, given equal skill, a fade would kill a jp and an onos would kill a heavy on a one to one battle. Which is why the old NS was balanced in a way that the marines are forced to work in groups to prevent losses. Even with a team of six and only one gorge though, it was still balanced enough as the gorge could not be everywhere at once and providing support here and there, it required coordination and the help of the gorge for serious assaults (who doesn't remember gorgie loving?) So, over all there HAD to be a gorge, and the gorge was an extremely valuable asset to the team.
What is the current state of things though? If the aliens happen to get a commander, then they are already down one man there. If they get a gorge, they are down two. If they get two gorges they are down three. Considering that gorges are no longer essential they see much less play time - esp. considering that if they are a skilled player their resources are FAR better spent as a fade. What needs to be done is make the gorge a worthwhile investment on the alien team. Previously they could afford them because the marines would always be down a man. Now that they are equal they cannot afford to take a man off the team when the marines are equally staffed. The marines do not, and will not, have a support class. Hell, with macs they don't even need to build if they have a competent commander. This leaves the aliens requiring far more man power on the ground than previously. In NS 1 some marines were needed to build everything, and one was always in the CC. Now no marines are needed to build by mid game and the aliens match the marines loss in the CC. Thus, there's no NEED for the gorge, and even if you give him web and turn him into a support class, unless the marines are also given some form of support class that is as ineffective at combat as the gorge, then the aliens will always see little use of the gorge because of him being required for actual killing.
Imagine if we gave the gorge web to counter JPs. lets say it's a 8v8, or rather 7v7 (Commanders). If two people go gorges to counter jps that will be zipping about the map (the gorge is not known for its quick speed) then we are down to 5v7. What team in the right mind would take such a hit for webs when fades can swipe the jps out of the sky?
Just some thoughts...
Rant about alien commander I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
<!--quoteo(post=1885472:date=Nov 18 2011, 11:12 AM:name=mezimors)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mezimors @ Nov 18 2011, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rant about alien commander I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
-CGD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Somebody stop me if I'm recalling things incorrectly, but I remember organized clan games and pub games being so completely differently balanced in NS1, and it was a definite problem. The game was largely unbalanced between groups of different types of players, with aliens winning more often in public games, and marines winning more in clan games. A happy medium was impossible to reach, and I think that in NS2, things will be better. NS1 was never as suitable for e-sports as NS2 is now.
Hmm. It would depend alot on size. the larger games weren't as well balanced in, but I do know I've had a great mix of alien/rines win back in the good ole days of 2000s. It always took a good commander to gather up the marine team, and as I said, the alien team was always a rag tag group of guerillas (thus more suited to pub play without the guiding hand of a strong commander). So much so that on servers with regulars you would have 3-4 commanders who would win almost everygame just by the sheer morale boost they would give their players from their rep. I can't remember their names but G4B2S had quite a few of those, as well as Marks and [I AM]. all had regular comms that people adored and would win frequently, with the same teams that would be scattered by lesser comms (such as myself)
Comments
making the gorge a tank, once again, does not accomplish this.
yay +1
This already happens in scrims, we're not the best marines but we get regularly raped by gorge/skulks or gorge/lerks pushes.
I agree, Webs would be helpful. Gorge could do with 1 or 2 more abilities imho. I'm not sure what yet though. I'm thinking about it a bit more...
1st : Gorge should do better healing against themself and teammates
2nd : I think it would be great if the gorge has he's web again. The gorge should have the option to set up blockades for the marines, so they can't go through a certain hallway because of the web (wich should be hard to see, should maybe look like some sort of spit that is hard to see :) ) When marines run into the web they are slowed and maybe the guns should block or something? or slow walking and rotating and mouse movement, just something effective :), wich makes it great for aliens to defend and ambush.
3rd: Maybe the gorge should have another building like Hydra's? Maybe something like a whip? Or gorge should be able to set some sort of traps? maybe hydra's with a parasite ? or a "cyst" that explodes when you run into it and it blinds the marine for like 2 or 3 second ? Maybe instead of a defense chamber a small healing tower ( less then cragg ofcourse )? Maybe give gorge an ability to run on walls for a few sec? Or another sort of hydra that shoots something slimey and 1/3 times blocks the marine gun for a second?
Anyways it would be nice if gorge had a more defending role in the game, by setting up ambushes and traps or slow the marines etc etc etc
Because alien commander is now THE builder, gorge should be more defensive,support and should be able to set some traps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1.
And for those saying being gorge is boring like it is by now, gorge is what i like to play the most in ns2 :P i love being a gorge in a group of gorges, all healing each one and rushing bile bombs everywhere
So you want to copy NS1 then. Isn't that a bit boring? You can play NS1 if you want NS1 gameplay.
I could always make the analogy of CS/CSS and how people transitioned quite well to that.
Should add starcraft to that for good measure.
I say make the transition to either field medic or ranged support.
A. Gorge Spit heals friendly target, Gorge heal spray... heals, and say bile bomb creates a spot on the ground (say a puddle of spit) that damages structures but can heal friendlies if they stand in it. All his abilities are heal orientated but still have some ranged support.
or
B. Up gorge spit/lessen energy needed. Keep heal spray. Extend the splash damage of bile bomb. Bring back webs. Allow gorges to drop mini structures of each chamber to give the passive effect only. (see Schimmel's mod for more info).
Since losing the ability to build meaningful structures (chambers) i have lost interest in my fav class. Many people bring up good points. Either way i dont think anyone will say the gorge is perfect as is. =)
and maybe commander would upgrade to a normal chamber...
I do play ns.
Thanks for giving me permission though
Well, about its role; I love the gorge :D
Anyway, more to the point, unknown worlds created a poor excuse of a gorge and introduced it into NS2. The introduction of the Alien Commander just made the gorge roll off a cl0rf and die....
I wished they would actually do something to make the gorge useful for a team. As soon as the alien commander can afford to put down crag chambers then they might as well just turn into skulks/fades.
What they need to do is allow the gorge to create mini-chambers for the cost of ~5 PRes and as Goblin said "Commander would upgrade to normal chamber" for the price of another ~5 PRes, this would make a connection with the commander and the Gorge (This could be the start of a commander/Gorge relationship). Then they would have a slight impact of the effectiveness of the team. A way to choose what structure to build could be simply a scroll of the mouse-wheel or something. Or maybe like in Counterstrike: Source how you press 4 repeatedly to choose the grenade.
Anyway:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>I want an improved gorge!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Well, about its role; I love the gorge :D
Anyway, more to the point, unknown worlds created a poor excuse of a gorge and introduced it into NS2. The introduction of the Alien Commander just made the gorge roll off a cl0rf and die....
I wished they would actually do something to make the gorge useful for a team. As soon as the alien commander can afford to put down crag chambers then they might as well just turn into skulks/fades.
What they need to do is allow the gorge to create mini-chambers for the cost of ~5 PRes and as Goblin said "Commander would upgrade to normal chamber" for the price of another ~5 PRes, this would make a connection with the commander and the Gorge (This could be the start of a commander/Gorge relationship). Then they would have a slight impact of the effectiveness of the team. A way to choose what structure to build could be simply a scroll of the mouse-wheel or something. Or maybe like in Counterstrike: Source how you press 4 repeatedly to choose the grenade.
Anyway:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>I want an improved gorge!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See Schimmel's mod. It already has this =)
Bring back web and all is well, maybe a web structure instead of a web instant.
it would be a Psorge! :) with glowing blue eyes! which eat yoaa souls!
Awesome :-)
it would be a Psorge! :) with glowing blue eyes! which eat yoaa souls!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I read this a thought "Seals".
Don't know why...
Dude the simplicity of that killed me.
:-)
WHERE DO YOU GET THESE!?
I'm purely slapping the title of this thread around a bit :P
Considering the amount of time I've logged as both com and Gorge (more in NS1 than NS2, but still a decent amount in NS2), I feel as though a small wrench was thrown into the mix with the alien commander. To me the reason the alien team could afford to have 1-3 gorges on a 6-10 team size is that the other classes out powered the marines 1-1. That is, given equal skill, a fade would kill a jp and an onos would kill a heavy on a one to one battle. Which is why the old NS was balanced in a way that the marines are forced to work in groups to prevent losses. Even with a team of six and only one gorge though, it was still balanced enough as the gorge could not be everywhere at once and providing support here and there, it required coordination and the help of the gorge for serious assaults (who doesn't remember gorgie loving?) So, over all there HAD to be a gorge, and the gorge was an extremely valuable asset to the team.
What is the current state of things though? If the aliens happen to get a commander, then they are already down one man there. If they get a gorge, they are down two. If they get two gorges they are down three. Considering that gorges are no longer essential they see much less play time - esp. considering that if they are a skilled player their resources are FAR better spent as a fade. What needs to be done is make the gorge a worthwhile investment on the alien team. Previously they could afford them because the marines would always be down a man. Now that they are equal they cannot afford to take a man off the team when the marines are equally staffed. The marines do not, and will not, have a support class. Hell, with macs they don't even need to build if they have a competent commander. This leaves the aliens requiring far more man power on the ground than previously. In NS 1 some marines were needed to build everything, and one was always in the CC. Now no marines are needed to build by mid game and the aliens match the marines loss in the CC. Thus, there's no NEED for the gorge, and even if you give him web and turn him into a support class, unless the marines are also given some form of support class that is as ineffective at combat as the gorge, then the aliens will always see little use of the gorge because of him being required for actual killing.
Imagine if we gave the gorge web to counter JPs. lets say it's a 8v8, or rather 7v7 (Commanders). If two people go gorges to counter jps that will be zipping about the map (the gorge is not known for its quick speed) then we are down to 5v7. What team in the right mind would take such a hit for webs when fades can swipe the jps out of the sky?
Just some thoughts...
Rant about alien commander
I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
-CGD
Considering the amount of time I've logged as both com and Gorge (more in NS1 than NS2, but still a decent amount in NS2), I feel as though a small wrench was thrown into the mix with the alien commander. To me the reason the alien team could afford to have 1-3 gorges on a 6-10 team size is that the other classes out powered the marines 1-1. That is, given equal skill, a fade would kill a jp and an onos would kill a heavy on a one to one battle. Which is why the old NS was balanced in a way that the marines are forced to work in groups to prevent losses. Even with a team of six and only one gorge though, it was still balanced enough as the gorge could not be everywhere at once and providing support here and there, it required coordination and the help of the gorge for serious assaults (who doesn't remember gorgie loving?) So, over all there HAD to be a gorge, and the gorge was an extremely valuable asset to the team.
What is the current state of things though? If the aliens happen to get a commander, then they are already down one man there. If they get a gorge, they are down two. If they get two gorges they are down three. Considering that gorges are no longer essential they see much less play time - esp. considering that if they are a skilled player their resources are FAR better spent as a fade. What needs to be done is make the gorge a worthwhile investment on the alien team. Previously they could afford them because the marines would always be down a man. Now that they are equal they cannot afford to take a man off the team when the marines are equally staffed. The marines do not, and will not, have a support class. Hell, with macs they don't even need to build if they have a competent commander. This leaves the aliens requiring far more man power on the ground than previously. In NS 1 some marines were needed to build everything, and one was always in the CC. Now no marines are needed to build by mid game and the aliens match the marines loss in the CC. Thus, there's no NEED for the gorge, and even if you give him web and turn him into a support class, unless the marines are also given some form of support class that is as ineffective at combat as the gorge, then the aliens will always see little use of the gorge because of him being required for actual killing.
Imagine if we gave the gorge web to counter JPs. lets say it's a 8v8, or rather 7v7 (Commanders). If two people go gorges to counter jps that will be zipping about the map (the gorge is not known for its quick speed) then we are down to 5v7. What team in the right mind would take such a hit for webs when fades can swipe the jps out of the sky?
Just some thoughts...
Rant about alien commander
I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
-CGD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tl;dr
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Maybe if everyone does this then they might consider introducing the Gorge!
Worth a try...<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I am an old NS vet, so of course I detest the alien commander... part of the beauty of NS1 was the DIFFERENCE in teams. Granted, they are different now, thank god, but it was the entire different dynamic. On the one hand we had the loosely structured, rag-tag, aliens that flourished in guerilla warfare, and on the other we had the marines that would flourish when they would organize and move out as that ever so scary heavy train. In the late game the guerillas would have to get their ###### together and organize to some extent to respond to the powerful offensive by the marines, but they had to do this in a guerilla manner still! How many head on onos rushes survived a heavy train? No, you had to split them up, harass their main base, take out their resources.... do everything that a guerilla army must do. The Marines on the other hand functioned as a conventional but powerful army. They had to protect their resources, build up their arsenal, and then launch powerful and directed offensives against selected targets. Never in all my time as com did I think to myself "Oh yeah, hey, guys, I just want each of you to run off somewhere and do your best to kill an alien res nod, or even just go knife an mc somewhere"... because that is NOT marine tactics, that is NOT the effective way for a conventional army to function. On the other hand, I ALWAYS, as a gorge, would implore teammates to chomp on the marine infrastructure, to split up and use our mobility to our advantage, and then to regroup in response to threats by the marines. Meanwhile I and the other gorges would tend the base and move around as best we could, without the top down satellite view that the conventional army could afford. To a large extent that dynamic has been lost due to the alien commander providing a guiding hand for the aliens. A large part of the beauty of the aliens was how loosely organized it was. But, alas, this is not NS1. Though I hope after NS2 they make an NS3 that goes back to the roots. It was the classic struggle of conventional vs guerilla, large military industrial complex vs nature, tech vs bio, and it was beautiful. Just a few thoughts.
-CGD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Somebody stop me if I'm recalling things incorrectly, but I remember organized clan games and pub games being so completely differently balanced in NS1, and it was a definite problem. The game was largely unbalanced between groups of different types of players, with aliens winning more often in public games, and marines winning more in clan games. A happy medium was impossible to reach, and I think that in NS2, things will be better. NS1 was never as suitable for e-sports as NS2 is now.