Turret Ammo
Ironsoul
Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Balancing for the turret</div><!--quoteo(post=1886866:date=Nov 25 2011, 04:07 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Nov 25 2011, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't the sentries already need to be reloaded after some time? that could cost team res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That inspired me.
Here's what I'm thinking, sentry turrets maintain their current rate of fire... they lose some more accuracy(they're still too accurate), and they have 250 bullets of ammo.
Every time they run out of ammo, they need to be restocked, there are two options. Manual and automatic.
The commander can either simply one off refill a sentry with 250 more bullets, or select the "automatic refill" option on that sentry.
When the sentry ammo is restocked, it costs 1 res.
This would fix the sentry spam problem because it would chew through marine resources fairly quickly if all they wanted to do was sentry spam. But it doesn't break sentries either.
That inspired me.
Here's what I'm thinking, sentry turrets maintain their current rate of fire... they lose some more accuracy(they're still too accurate), and they have 250 bullets of ammo.
Every time they run out of ammo, they need to be restocked, there are two options. Manual and automatic.
The commander can either simply one off refill a sentry with 250 more bullets, or select the "automatic refill" option on that sentry.
When the sentry ammo is restocked, it costs 1 res.
This would fix the sentry spam problem because it would chew through marine resources fairly quickly if all they wanted to do was sentry spam. But it doesn't break sentries either.
Comments
Some kind of maintenance cost for the sentries(in team res) would be good.
But I think that 2 team res would fit better, and make turrets alot less spammed.
I think the current way of refilling them manually is a bit of an annoying rutine to do, it should be automatic in my opinion.
Marine commander already have alot of different stuff to do.
People will try to exploit the hitboxes so the turrets waste ammo without doing any damage.
Cysts don't cost res so that could provide an easy way to starve marines.
It could help stalemates, though, since marines can't afford turrets anymore if the aliens just spam cysts with 2-4 hives constantly.
It could improve the game, but also make some alien tactics too powerful.
One solution would be to make turrets target players only, or at least no cysts. (Kind of like they only had motion sensors, although alien buildings move a bit, too :P)
Overall, I really like the direction this is going to, it should be seriously considered.
People will try to exploit the hitboxes so the turrets waste ammo without doing any damage.
Cysts don't cost res so that could provide an easy way to starve marines.
It could help stalemates, though, since marines can't afford turrets anymore if the aliens just spam cysts with 2-4 hives constantly.
It could improve the game, but also make some alien tactics too powerful.
One solution would be to make turrets target players only, or at least no cysts. (Kind of like they only had motion sensors, although alien buildings move a bit, too :P)
Overall, I really like the direction this is going to, it should be seriously considered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erhm, this suggested change would not affect cyst spam in any way.
People already do that to make sentries waste ammo.
Take a look at this thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115515" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115515</a>
It goes through alot of the problems with the many energy pools the game has.
Making Distress Beacon cost 10 team res. And the rest of the energy pools converted to personal res would solve the spam.
This includes: Nano Shield, Crag umbra, Whip fury(needs aoe increase imo), Cysts, Scan? etc.
target structures
target creatures
target all
reload
automatic reload
Oh and, instead of making observatory beacon cost res, it could cost power(hint hint, nudge nudge, go look at my other thread).
target structures
target creatures
target all
reload
automatic reload
Oh and, instead of making observatory beacon cost res, it could cost power(hint hint, nudge nudge, go look at my other thread).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, only that the game is about map control and resources. Not so much the power grid.
Power grid was added for an easier way to break turtles, and that it does already.
We don't need more types of resources, hence my "Buildings energy" thread.
Also, I find your idea of giving the turrets a resource maintenance cost alot better than making the power grid more limited.
I find it really annoying at the moment. In build 188, if one team is winning, the other is being dominated, with nothing they can do.
I want to balance that out, so both teams can dominate each other at the same time.
I find it really annoying at the moment. In build 188, if one team is winning, the other is being dominated, with nothing they can do.
I want to balance that out, so both teams can dominate each other at the same time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the current power grid already prevents those stalemates to a degree, it makes it alot easier to break them down.
If one team is dominating, the other team should be dominated. That's not actually news for NS2, or any other game for that case.
It's mostly down to the resources and the player vs player battles. Which is how it should be imo.
Making it possible for the dominated team to get easy comebacks would be kinda lame if you ask me.
I think you should spend a bit of time researching game development, especially pay attention to fun factor, because you don't seem to know what that is. I'm not trying to be rude, I just can't think of any other way to tell you this.
I think you should spend a bit of time researching game development, especially pay attention to fun factor, because you don't seem to know what that is. I'm not trying to be rude, I just can't think of any other way to tell you this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying that losing should be boring.
If players are being dominated, it's mostly because of huge resource advantages or simply just individual skill making that difference.
Giving an option for an easy comeback would be annoying for the winning team, comebacks should be earned. Not easily achieved, that's all I said about that.
I think the reason we are seeing these long stalemate games which last 40+ minutes is because of missing tech for both sides. And yes, they are boring at times, but that's the life of the beta.
I also want the game to be fun, and I don't think having easy comebacks makes the game any more fun. Easy comebacks would just be frustrating for the winning team, if you catch my drift.
In some games the match is already decided in the first minutes of playing and in some games you can make games after being dominated for a long time. Obviously the best experience is achieved by finding the middle way here. I think the current resource model in ns2 creates a great slippery slope and is working fine at this moment. The tech trees however make the slippery slope effect to have a big jumps. Primarily the existence of the 2nd hive turns the slope in any situation drastically which creates a boring slippery slope effect that relies solely on one variable.
People already do that to make sentries waste ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course people already do that. But at this moment, it doesn't cost the marines team res.
That's what I'm talking about: Cyst spam would be an ability for the aliens to starve the marines from res quickly, not just distract the turrets. If you recycle, you lose res and risk getting rushed. If you don't, you'll also lose res, especially quickly if you have lots of turrets and aliens have more than one hive.
That could prove to be a too strong tactic, so it needs to be considered when doing the change of turret ammo costing team res. That was the essence of my post.
And yes, your ideas in that other thread could potentially alleviate this and other problems, couldn't read that thread at the time of my post though since it wasn't posted yet. :D
Oh, and thanks for that great article, Zeikko.
I completely agree with this. This is why no other game ties tech to territory. Creates horrible slippery slope mechanics in which the game is decided very quickly 99% of the time; once one team has taken the territory it is almost always GG. I don't know why the devs decided to go back to this old setup. Caused very linear game play in NS1 and it will do the exact same thing in NS2.
On to the posters topic: I don't know if this is needed, but if so, how about a compromise. Turrets apparently spend some sort of resource making ammo so how about you have a very minor upkeep cost for turrets. Maybe one res every so often; the time frame would be adjusted for balance. This would help stop insane marine turtling because if you continually spammed turret after turret on a single base the res income wouldn't be able to support it in the long run. The other alternative is just have the turrets automatically buy new ammo as it is used for a small cost, but this would make the resource pretty erratic and hard for the commander to plan around.