What is the goal of NS2 gameplay?

ogz

<div class="IPBDescription">When people come to play RTS/FPS what is fun for them?</div>Time to write an essay~~

First question I want to ask is, what type of game (RTS element) do we want to see in NS2?
(I was going to cover both RTS and FPS but its probably 2 different conversations here. RTS will probably looking at resource models and FPS looking at movement / physics / dynamics etc..)

For me, the fun aspects in the RTS side of NS2 are:

Territorial control. Hold res/tech nodes and denying the other team.

Build orders. Some sort of tech/evolution order which can heavily influence the outcome depending on what the other team does. (eg, ns1 days of mc, sc, dc)

Ability to 'fight back' from a losing situation. (By fight back, im not suggesting turtling btw)

In order to have this sort of fun aspects, I feel the following is what the game should be aiming for:

Territorial Control. The more territory you hold the better you are off.

Comebacks. The territory you hold, the HARDER to keep all of them. and hence the more opportunity for other team to come back / take some back

Build orders. A variety of choices as you tech up. Difficult to 'having it all'.


Thoughts and discussion?

(Note I took out all 'suggestions', figured.. lets find out what people want, and then make suggestions to suit it)

NurEinMensch

For me it is mostly the fun of experiencing two teams fighting against each other in a semi-organized way, where the setup of the game naturally enhances the "team-building" effect by promoting coordination and skill on a strategical, tactical and twitch-skill level.

Balderon

The most important one for me is probably that the game needs alot of build orders (especially early ones). This is important if you want the game to feel exciting even without the help of new patches. Note that this is probably one of the reasons why Starcraft 1 is alot of fun to watch even if it isn't updated anylonger. I think NS2 can learn alot from Starcraft 1 and 2.

Deadzone

This may sound weird, but I LIKE playing in a game where I get orders to follow. I found this out through games like NS1, Battlefield 2 (and 2142), and other early FPS/RTS hybrids. I adore how small teams of players form tight-knit squads, and they have a central figure (commander) to rally around and can really act like a team.

I also liked that the commander could reward good play and "punish" bad play (by lack of rewards) in NS1. Unfortunately there isn't really that authority anymore, though. Medpacks and shields are good, but they don't have the feeling of being "given" something concrete. but that aside...

That's really it. I can get behind a competent/charismatic leader, and it's fun to be in a team with someone like that. I don't like being comm myself, I like being given roles to fulfill. :)

konata

I think the goal is to shoot the aliens..

.. or bite the human.

Chris0132

It's like playing battlefield only the bases are cooler.

If they made a battlefield game that was more like 1942/2, and put in actual functional structures instead of random buildings in the bases, that'd do the same thing as an FPSRTS as far as I'm concerned.

NS is also a pretty interesting shooter what with its aliens vs marines thing, and its general playstyle.

I'd say the best FPSRTS would be one of two things:

Either you have a game with a bunch of flags, and capping a flag spawns a base there, and the base does all sorts of fun stuff, and you fight between bases in tanks and jetpack infantry and stuff, some classes can build their own structures too. That'd be the multiplayer game. Something like tribes mixed with battlefield.

Or, a postapocalyptic FPS/RTS/RPG where you explore to find people, materials, and locations. You can set up bases in locations to exploit their defensive value or raw resource potential, and you have to defend against environmental hazards as well as hostile factions. The more you build up the more tech you get and the more space you can control. That'd be the singleplayer game, kinda like an FPS version of anno or the settlers crossed with real time tactics and RAGE shooter mechanics.

Evil_bOb1

I've never been much of a pro player. I like casual, building, slow paced games most. Back in the days a friend of mine, who went by the alias ZTTK, introduced me to Counter-strike and he provided me with a key to play starcraft on battle.net. I used to think I was good at starcraft and he would beat me like I had been afk :p He taught me build orders, timings of different attacks, different rushes to expect and what times, team build orders, lost temple and all that good stuff. I got to play games with some high ranking players where we planned our strategy before the match and would stress fully keep an eye on the in-game time, observing what our enemies were doing at what time, trying to foresee their strategy and keep ours hidden. It completely changed my view of rts' and I can't think of a funner time I had in multiplayer gaming. He taught me what competitive gaming was all about. We had to win whatever the means.

Starcraft is an amazing game. The 'balance' that exists in that game I believe sets the example. I think the thing that impresses me the most is how all units are important. I think this is achieved for one by the population limit, as it is not numbers of units that count that much, but what units you have against what your enemy has. Limited resources surely brought a pace to the game too.

In Natural Selection 2, at the moment, each game you get the bulk of the technology available and resources are infinite. It is a race for tech but it is a pretty cool paced race. In competitive matches there is a concern for timing and focus on certain technologies but, the game doesn't really stress you about things. In public it is no deal at all. I like to see it is this way because this is beta, and UWE wants us to test the options without much stress, and that with retail version, resources will be limited and choosing a tech path will either make you or break you. I think this is the thing that I would like to see the most in NS2, a form of stress, uncertainty, unpredictability of each game that I felt when playing 'competitive' starcraft games. Different tech choices as well. Something like aliens could upgrade themselves even with one hive, not care about higher lifeforms but super evolve the skulk, gorge and lerk, and still be able to compete a marine team that focused on getting early Exo's. Situations like that would add a lot of depth to the game.

Runteh

If anyone plays clan matches, the satisfaction comes from working really hard and then winning as a team.

Building was more fun in NS1 because you had control over where things were placed - now it is a little confusing.

Perhaps the gorge could place 'requests' on the ground, to show the comm where he wants whips/crags/etc

Destroid

NS1 was a fantastic experience because it brought together a lot of interesting aspects. The asymmetry of the teams and play styles, the demanding cooperation between players. Commanding in NS1 was an extremely intense experience, and winning that way was the most satisfying. It was all held together by some excellent maps, which are probably the most important single aspect of any FPS. A few of these elements have unfortunately been toned down a bit in NS2, but I think it still has potential to be a great game.

The combination of FPS and RTS (even for aliens without the overview perspective, you must expand your economy and guard your buildings) gives the combined tension of both - you must be wary of map control and protecting your structures, while at the same time be wary of the alien/marine around the next corner.

Price

Fun for me:

Tower defence feeling, like always, did you remember the automatic turrets in the alien movies?
1. building as a gorge, I love just to defend, the most fun in ns1 was with gorge and building, in ns2 its "kinda" fun now with hydras and cysts, its all you got so you have enjoy it a much as you can.
maybe rt building comes back for the gorge...but i guess not.

2. Teamwork, the feeling of like 4 marines getting HMGs and shooting with them at a onos, he eat one marine and ALL of the marines run behind the onos to kill it and save the marine.
<b>These epic moments are so great, i will miss onos can eat a marine in ns2 :(</b>
if a skulk jump in your face and instead of landing a bite, the corpse of the skulk land in your face, these moments are great or as gorge get saved by fade/lerk/onos.
These moments give a very cool feeling.

4. like you said, Territorial Control, its fun to defend a territory and spread your own territory


5. hide as a alien and attack marines, like in a vent/cloak, sneak out, kill a marine and hide again
Trap a marine as gorge to a fade is also nice but its very very hard with the GL spam or flamethrower, thats why i hope someday see a classic mod.

6. The feeling of the marine view, compared to aliens its a totaly diffrent feeling, with the new hud its very nice to walk through the map.

There so much more i don't know right now, i will edit :P

B1ackSmoke

I really love games that require some sort of teamwork and communication to win. My favorite part though, has to be that even if you aren't good at shooting aliens or biting marines, you can still be a valuable player for your team. For the aliens the Gorge can be putting hydras up on the ceiling, bile bombing sentries, placing cyst to a res node, or being a medic around the corner. On the marine side you can help build stuff, keep the base occupied, or sneak and kill a harvester or two. For both sides though an average player can be most resourceful by letting his team and commander know what's going on around the map. For Ex: What structures have low health, where the enemy team is and what they are doing, give suggestions, keep the team working together, and keep the hopes high. < Yes that sounds cheesy but I've had to break up a couple fights between players on my team because the match was intense.

Now this gives no room for someone to come in and start bossing people around, which I've seen happen too many times.
All in all, I like the fact that you can be a useful player even if you can't hit the broad side of a barn.

-B1ackSmoke

IeptBarakat

The thing I loved about ns1 gameplay was the large amount of gameplay variation per game. Hopefully ns2 can be at the same level.

Marines choosing different tech paths or structure placements. Random hive locations, and working as a team or trying to sneak behind enemy lines. Choosing ha or jp, building siege together, building rt's alone. Placing mines and welding structures or armor.

And the kharaa upgrade system. Where you choose 1 of the three possible upgrades per chamber. This was like an early talent or perk system where the player would be able to change the gameplay style of any lifeform in the game. Which drastically improved re-playability and overall fun.

Playing as a gorge and creating a garden of various structures to help your team in various ways. To allow quick healing or block a route for marines. Saving for res towers or hives.