Fade: making skill matter
Fluid Core
Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Making kills satisfying</div>Right now, you quickly master blinking and have very low chance of failure. Not only does this make fades annoying to meet, but also boring to play once the novelty of huge killing streaks passes. The main cause of this is how blink currently work, with the low skillcap. How do we fix this?
This is the concept...
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Created by Yuuki, who also have a post about it on the modding forums.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115631&st=0&p=1889414&#entry1889414" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1889414</a>
I got in on the action as we tried the latest version. And let me tell you; it feels <b>very</b> good, both on the giving and receiving end. You'll get your taste of the cookie to once that is public :)
I urge anyone who have not tried his mod to give the earlier version a try, the blinking itself is relatively unchanged. There is so much flow and there are so many tricks to learn, it should take a great deal of practice to master, along with mind games now that invulnerability is gone...
I can't thank Yuuki enough for making it so fun to play a fade. Let's hope it is considered for official implementation!
For those who want to try it out themselves, here is the link to the files. <i>It appear as if the delay from entering blink is currently back. Will update once that is sorted.</i>
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=36033" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index....st&id=36033</a>
Fluid Core
This is the concept...
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Created by Yuuki, who also have a post about it on the modding forums.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115631&st=0&p=1889414&#entry1889414" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1889414</a>
I got in on the action as we tried the latest version. And let me tell you; it feels <b>very</b> good, both on the giving and receiving end. You'll get your taste of the cookie to once that is public :)
I urge anyone who have not tried his mod to give the earlier version a try, the blinking itself is relatively unchanged. There is so much flow and there are so many tricks to learn, it should take a great deal of practice to master, along with mind games now that invulnerability is gone...
I can't thank Yuuki enough for making it so fun to play a fade. Let's hope it is considered for official implementation!
For those who want to try it out themselves, here is the link to the files. <i>It appear as if the delay from entering blink is currently back. Will update once that is sorted.</i>
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=36033" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index....st&id=36033</a>
Fluid Core
Comments
Increase skill ceiling?
Nerf the ability for fades to blink down a hall?
I like the current blink because it adds that atmospheric feel of a creature that appears and disappears out of no-where. This would revert the fade back to an NS1 feel (floating/flying fades).
What are your thoughts on, instead, the fade loses a portion of adrenaline for damage taken? Your adrenaline obviously is continually trickling into your adrenaline reservoir. Using abilities drains it, which currently allows 'X' amount of blinking and swiping.
This becomes predictable whether a fade lands hits or not.
For argument sake, let's say that with the current trickle and ability usage this allows a fade to blink in, swipe three times, and then blink out, safely. Again, this is not dictated by skill; whether a hit landed or not.
Now, let's add in this "nerf". If the fade blinks in, receives some damage, he may be limited to two swipes and still have enough adrenaline to blink out.
Now a skilled player has more opportunity to deal more damage, but is not so impermeable. As long as damage is being dealt toward the fade he risks either running low on adrenaline for "long get-aways" or health. Which comes first, adrenaline or health depletion? This depends on the length of combat. A long drawn out confrontation will allow the adrenaline to recoup which may entail the fade sticking around, but he risks losing too much health. In this setup, you may find a fade losing adrenaline faster, making him a prime target.
For possible better balance...
a.) Up the "trickle" rate to a level where a fade can swipe a much larger amount... say 6 times
-or-
b.) Make swipe "free" like a Gorge's healspray / Skulk's bite.
I lost my train of thought.
This raises the skill ceiling because managing adrenaline becomes more crucial. A skilled fade can remain in combat longer. Skilled marines can deter fades out of combat sooner (take adrenaline down instead of health).
I know this is a different direction from the original post... but, it is on topic with the title.
Thoughts?
I mean, either you massively increase blink energy drain so fades have to use the momentum, or you keep it as is and there isn't really any reason to use the momentum, except of course that it makes blink much harder to use because you overshoot your target.
Think about how this would look from an outside observer, the fade is just going to spend all its time sailing through the air and disappearing, then reappearing sailing through the air again.
It's going to look pretty dumb and I don't see how it'd result in a good fade combat model.
The fade definitely needs work, but I don't think this would help, it seems like a direct return to the NS1 fade, which I didn't like either. The NS2 fade isn't brilliant but it's miles better than the NS1 fade, at least the NS2 fade is less annoying to use and fight against.
Increase skill ceiling?
Nerf the ability for fades to blink down a hall?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are a few goals that I believe that implementation address. First of all, it makes the Fade a harder class to master, you have to predict were you will land and anticipate were your target will be if you are to make efficient kills. Secondly, there is some merit in the point that you as a fade really run no risk of dieing. As long as you don't get greedy, there is no way that the marines can prevent you from safely escaping. Making for many quick blinks in midair to keep up your speed would give more skill to escaping and give the marines a chance to finish of a bad fade. Thirdly, and in my opinion one of the most important ones, it makes playing the fade more fun and feel less like you sliding along a rail.
<!--quoteo(post=1889672:date=Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the current blink because it adds that atmospheric feel of a creature that appears and disappears out of no-where. This would revert the fade back to an NS1 feel (floating/flying fades).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see your concern, but I don't think that feel will be lost for neither fade nor marines. I love how the new blink makes you disappear and reappear out of nowhere, and that's not something I want gone. If anything, I think the proposed blink amplifies this feel. Keeping the momentum does so much for feeling like you're warping through the ether and being thrown out at the new location. It seems to me like you are judging from the first person view of the video. Yes, the proposed system have many similarities with the old blink, it appear quite similar from a fade perspective. The key difference would actually be that you disappear from harms way during the acceleration phase, and that you can't keep in this state for long. Compared to in NS1 where you blinked fairly straight and were fully visible at all times, with this change you would instead turn ethereal and then use your gained momentum to save adrenaline while you're falling down in an arc, to repeat the process to change direction and keep your speed up. It combines the best of two worlds; you can use the ethereal state to your advantage, and you need skill to blink and use it efficiently.
From a marine point of view, I don't think the fright will be lost. If anything I think it will amplify. Imagine seeing a fade run around a corner and turning towards you, just as you start to fire it disperses into a cloud of smoke. A split second later, it reappears 10 yards closer to you out of thin air, it's bulk traveling towards you at high speed with the claws flashing through the air.
<!--quoteo(post=1889672:date=Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are your thoughts on, instead, the fade loses a portion of adrenaline for damage taken?
Now a skilled player has more opportunity to deal more damage, but is not so impermeable.
This raises the skill ceiling because managing adrenaline becomes more crucial. A skilled fade can remain in combat longer. Skilled marines can deter fades out of combat sooner (take adrenaline down instead of health).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a way to make the fade more vulnerable, yes. It is however not a way to make the fade require more skill to play. The reason for this is quite simple: You as a fade have virtually no control over how well the marines aim when you are at them, and thus with how much health/adrenaline you lose. Unless you want to argue that it's hard to hit marines with swipe. The skill need to be getting to the marines while taking minimal damage, not coming from predicting how fast they could take you out and blink out right before.
It's exactly the same thing as it now, with the numbers tweaked some. It doesn't matter if it's adrenaline or health limiting you, losing both would be linked, and running out of one or the other means that you die.
<!--quoteo(post=1889672:date=Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 11 2011, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know this is a different direction from the original post... but, it is on topic with the title.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted :)
<!--quoteo(post=1889684:date=Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doesn't this basically just turn the fade into a bigger skulk with a leap that works in mid air?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remind me of the difference of fade and skulk in NS1?
A skulk ambush, a fade assassinate. They are both melee and (eventually..) have ways to close in on the target. The difference is in the playstyle :)
<!--quoteo(post=1889684:date=Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean, either you massively increase blink energy drain so fades have to use the momentum, or you keep it as is and there isn't really any reason to use the momentum, except of course that it makes blink much harder to use because you overshoot your target.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is one of the suggestions I made in the other thread. Making blinking harder is something many have suggested. The fade now is like as if it rides a tram. It stand behind the doors, and when they open it swipes at the ones standing in the platform as they shoot back. Then the door closes and the tram continues.
<!--quoteo(post=1889684:date=Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think about how this would look from an outside observer, the fade is just going to spend all its time sailing through the air and disappearing, then reappearing sailing through the air again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--quoteo(post=1889684:date=Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's going to look pretty dumb...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether it looks dumb or not is just a matter of taste. There is alot of things that could look dumb, for example a small fat creature with a glowing belly spewing plants everywhere... :P
<!--quoteo(post=1889684:date=Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 11 2011, 02:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...makes blink much harder to use...
...and I don't see how it'd result in a good fade combat model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As you said, it would make the fade require more skill to play efficiently.
By that definition anything meleeing is a skulk with some weird twist.
In NS1 the lifeforms differentiated enough through their roles. Fade provided map control and tanking power while skulks provided disposability, scouting, guerilla abilities and such. I'm not sure how the roles go in NS2, but I think there are various methods for differentiating aliens anyway. Using a good combo of them sounds better than trying to forcibly push the alien movement methods separate from each other at the cost of actual gameplay mechanics.
I don't mind if the movement mechanicsm are more unique for every lifeform, but making the movement interesting in general is far bigger priority in my books. Unless someone comes up with a better idea, I'm more than willing to see where this goes.
In NS1 the lifeforms differentiated enough through their roles. Fade provided map control and tanking power while skulks provided disposability, scouting, guerilla abilities and such. I'm not sure how the roles go in NS2, but I think there are various methods for differentiating aliens anyway. Using a good combo of them sounds better than trying to forcibly push the alien movement methods separate from each other at the cost of actual gameplay mechanics.
I don't mind if the movement mechanicsm are more unique for every lifeform, but making the movement interesting in general is far bigger priority in my books. Unless someone comes up with a better idea, I'm more than willing to see where this goes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yeah, kinda, the lack of varied weaponry does mean that all the melee classes are pretty similar, which is why I particularly object to the fade effectively losing the one distinguishing feature it has.
In NS1 fades had acid rocket and blink was basically rocket fuel, skulks on the other hand had xenocide in the late game, so the two did function fairly differently.
In NS2, fades don't have acid rocket, skulks don't have xenocide, and the proposed change seems far more oriented around fades using blink like skulks use leap.
<!--quoteo(post=1889686:date=Dec 11 2011, 01:32 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 11 2011, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As you said, it would make the fade require more skill to play efficiently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think replacing a very precise control system with a very floaty and imprecise control system is a good way to introduce 'skill'.
By that logic you could add 300ms input lag to every command to introduce 'skill'.
By that logic you could add 300ms input lag to every command to introduce 'skill'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anyone can use a movement mechanic effectively and precisely, it doesn't require skill. It's just easy and boring. I think a great example of excellent skill based movement mechanics can be found in the Tribes series, where jet packs and hills are used to gain and maintain momentum. The system is very "floaty and imprecise" for inexperienced players (such as myself) but it isn't once you learn it. Skill based movement system should reward players for skill and practice. If you can learn to use the system precisely in ten minutes, it doesn't really matter if you have played the game for years or just a couple of days.
The narines need to adapt to the fade. Not nerf the fade..
If the controls are crap then I don't want to master them, I want to play a game with better controls.
Half life has extremely easy to use movement controls but the game is still fun, because it'a a fun game.
If the only fun in the game is figuring out how to use the horrible controls then the game isn't very fun.
If you want an example closer to home, take marines. The guns go where you point them, the mouse moves with absolute precsion (at least it's supposed to) and they don't really have much movement in their gameplay. They have extremely precise controls, which is why they're fun. You're not fighting the controls, you're fighting the aliens.
I agree, would love to see and try it in a "real" game. Anyone willing to set up a server? I suppose I could, but as it's just my normal comp I don't think it would work very well as a server :)
I'm icecho on steam, same picture and ingame name as in the forums though :)
<ul><li>By careful blinking you can go around the entire summit and not run out of energy before you are back. This involves extensive use of falling and carefull timing on blink direction to not overshoot/fall short of corners. Trying to blink no later then right as you land.</li><li>Blinking in combat often come down to blinking in, making one hit and blinking back to aim where you want to go next. Doing this you run out of energy after 4 assaults in quick succession or so.</li><li>You can travel a lot quicker if the ceiling is high so that you can fall more between blinks. Low ceiling corridors makes you go out of energy quickly (quicker then now what I've observed).</li><li>You can initiate a blink and then use your secondary attack while falling through the air. Timed correctly (and if the ceiling is high enough to allow it), you can time it to go of right as you land.</li><li>There was a slight delay from blink initiation to being able to swipe. This made short-blink attacks impossible to do (such as hitting a jetpack marine that is flying close). Longer blinks you could hit right after exiting ethereal state.</li><li>Fights are a lot more intense and straining. You can survive quite long due to being able to blink often, but it's much harder to kill something. A marine is faster then you on the ground.</li></ul>
That's it for now I think. Was great fun to try it out, and it was nice to see so many on the server for awhile.
Half life has extremely easy to use movement controls but the game is still fun, because it'a a fun game.
If the only fun in the game is figuring out how to use the horrible controls then the game isn't very fun.
If you want an example closer to home, take marines. The guns go where you point them, the mouse moves with absolute precsion (at least it's supposed to) and they don't really have much movement in their gameplay. They have extremely precise controls, which is why they're fun. You're not fighting the controls, you're fighting the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having momentum after coming out of blink doesn't make the controls crappy. Having your character doing everything perfectly by simply holding the right mouse button is crappy and boring. Challenge is what makes certain things fun. Think about sports for example. Golf is fun because you have to learn it. If you could just point where you wanted the ball to land and getting hole in ones all the time wouldn't be fun. It would be boring after a couple of days. Having challenge and a possibility of getting better makes the game fun and interesting.
Even better example would be football (soccer if you're on the other side of the pond). Running and kicking a ball is super simple. The rules of the game are relatively simple and easy to learn. But you have to master it by years of practice. There is (in theory) no limit of how good you can become if you practice and work hard. Who would play football if it didn't matter if you had played the game for a week or your whole life?
The problem you're identifying has to do with the fades survivability coupled with his maneuverability. He can take enough damage and move around so quick, it is nearly impossible to kill a good fade because they can blink in, take a few shots, kill a marine, and blink out. Flame throwers are suppose to stop this, but it isn't a real elegant solution because it requires late game tech and not every marine will have a flamer ready.
Instead, fades should be able to be damaged while in blink mode. It should reduce the damage down heavily. Maybe 25 or 50%. This would make it riskier for fades. Couple with with some extremely light trace for the fade blink so observant marines can track their general direction and fades won't be the noob form they're now.
Letting them perpetually throw themselves across the map sounds like a step in the wrong direction
Instead, fades should be able to be damaged while in blink mode. It should reduce the damage down heavily. Maybe 25 or 50%. This would make it riskier for fades. Couple with with some extremely light trace for the fade blink so observant marines can track their general direction and fades won't be the noob form they're now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is the idea indeed, giving a more powerful/versatile way of moving for the fade (removing delays, allowing momentum, ...) and compensating by removing partially invulnerability and/or invisibility, instead of putting more and more annoying stuff in the way of the fade to compensate for the fact that one-click invulnerability is a little bit strong.
Even better example would be football (soccer if you're on the other side of the pond). Running and kicking a ball is super simple. The rules of the game are relatively simple and easy to learn. But you have to master it by years of practice. There is (in theory) no limit of how good you can become if you practice and work hard. Who would play football if it didn't matter if you had played the game for a week or your whole life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, having no interest in sport I can't really comment, but I certainly don't play games because I can't play them when I start.
A good game to me is one that's fun, like I said, half life isn't difficult, but it is one of my favorite games. It is engaging because it's fun, you run around shooting aliens, dodging projectiles, solving puzzles, doing platforming, all that jazz. The game is not a constant effort to stave off failure, it's challenging only in the sense that there are objectives you need to accomplish and a series of tasks you need to perform in order to do so. That is all that is required for enjoyment.
IF you must introduce extra challenge, it should be the right kind of challenge. Again take marines, they have perfectly precise controls, so they are as good as you are. If they had very floaty controls that wouldn't be the case, the floatiness would get in the way of your interaction with the game, you should never make the controls LESS precise.
If fades are able to blink in, kill things, and blink out easily without utilising the responsiveness of their controls, you need to introduce reasons to use the responsiveness. For example fades have perfect control over when they enter and exit blink, you can use this. A well timed blink would allow a fade to 'dodge' things like shotgun blasts and grenade detonations. If you telegraph grenade launches and shotgun blasts clearly to the fade, a good fade would be able to count the time after the grenade launch and blink just before it detonates, avoiding all damage. Similarly a good fade would be able to estimate the firing time between shotgun blasts and do the same. If you increase the fade's energy but decrease their health, and maybe add some way to blink without moving, fades would be forced to utilise careful timing and use of their responsive blink to extend their life.
Now, in this instance, I would suggest cutting fade cost as well, because players would initially not be as good with the fade and would need more opportunity to practice with it. Most of the marine weapons already follow this pattern, they work if you can aim them but don't work too well otherwise.
But the key thing is that the controls are perfectly responsive, you don't introduce challenge by making the controls crap, you introduce it by making the precision neccesary.
It also has the effect of making the fade quite distinct from the skulk, a fade is potentially a very good damage tank if he utilises his blink properly, although of course as blinking and attacking use the same energy and can't be done simultanously, he does have to choose between tanking and damage dealing to a degree. But a few fades working together could be very powerful if some focus on distracting marines and absorbing damage while the others kill marines concentrating on the other fades.
You could also take it further, allowing fades to blink in any direction. A quick tap of the key while strafing could launch the fade to the left or right allowing them to run towards a marine while throwing their aim off, it would use less energy than blinking down the hallway, but would require more precision. This could also be used in fights, but the emphasis remains on the precision aspect, not the 'you have to right against the incredibly floaty momentum to use blink properly' aspect.
besides a good shot from a flame and the fades reduced to walking away, let alone when JP's start hunting that burning fade down.
Either its balanced vs perfect aim marines (and OP vs bad marines) or balanced vs bad marines (and terrible vs good marines).
Come on, scaling effectiveness with skill is a basic principle. One that the current implementation of the fade doesn't really have.
That's the problem, all fades that have played more than 5mins get massive streaks, even if almost no skill.
They need to be able to take more damage(less blink-mode), this solution does that.
And as a plus, it makes it easier for fades to travel around the map.
And you still have the opportunity to use blink as before, by holding mouse2 instead of tapping it. But you'd waste alot more energy.
I think this is the way I'd prefer it to go right now. Give it the controllability of NS1 blink, but also add the abilitiy to avoid damage through the ethereal travel.
Then refine the acceleration mechacis of the ethereal form so that you can kind of balance between adren usage, damage dodging and speed management. I'd also like to see some curving on the ethereal form at the very least - it's not obeying the physics in the first place. At that point you could access a lot more angles and speeds to exit the blink rather than going headfirst into every situation.
If all this is done right, I think fades might actually become more flexible than their NS1 counterparts in some aspects. In NS1 fades are always kind of tanking their way through the opposition while the new blink could allow some new options in addition to the old stuff.
Edit: Also, in addition to the acceleration mechanics the speed transfer mechanics between the blink and normal mode need to be thought out. Getting these dynamic and flexible enough is a big thing for creating a good, varied movement system instead of the present single dimensional blink.
you can still fly straight towards a person as opposed to trying to 'leap' towards them in an arc
...
But the key thing is that the controls are perfectly responsive, you don't introduce challenge by making the controls crap, you introduce it by making the precision neccesary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The controls are precise. You have full control over when you enter and where you exit blink. What this change does is making precision necessary as you must take momentum from blink in account to not overshoot your target. Note that once you land you quickly come to a stop from the slow ground walking.
<!--quoteo(post=1889853:date=Dec 12 2011, 02:07 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 12 2011, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example fades have perfect control over when they enter and exit blink, you can use this. A well timed blink would allow a fade to 'dodge' things like shotgun blasts and grenade detonations. If you telegraph grenade launches and shotgun blasts clearly to the fade, a good fade would be able to count the time after the grenade launch and blink just before it detonates, avoiding all damage. Similarly a good fade would be able to estimate the firing time between shotgun blasts and do the same. If you increase the fade's energy but decrease their health, and maybe add some way to blink without moving, fades would be forced to utilise careful timing and use of their responsive blink to extend their life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think I'm a very good player, but I already do this. Just yesterday I was killed by a single shotgun blast from full health and I think full armor. You don't need to make fades more fragile; you need to make getting in and out of combat have a risk of losing some health. Taking damage while ethereal or not blinking continuously down hallways both does this.
<!--quoteo(post=1889853:date=Dec 12 2011, 02:07 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 12 2011, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could also take it further, allowing fades to blink in any direction. A quick tap of the key while strafing could launch the fade to the left or right allowing them to run towards a marine while throwing their aim off, it would use less energy than blinking down the hallway, but would require more precision. This could also be used in fights, but the emphasis remains on the precision aspect, not the 'you have to right against the incredibly floaty momentum to use blink properly' aspect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you actually played as a fade? The fade can blink in any direction, it can even blink backwards! I think it seems like you haven't tried the mod eighter. It doesn't feel imprecise or floaty. It's different from the current implementation, and it takes some time to getting used to, but it is by no means imprecise. One of the last things I did during the testing yesterday was harassing MACs in crevice. Blinking right next to them, hitting once, and blinking backwards out, repeat. Both trying to sail next to them and end blink by them. Speed and gravity is something many people is used to calculating on the fly, it's like catching a ball: only now you're the ball.
<!--quoteo(post=1889916:date=Dec 12 2011, 11:28 AM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Dec 12 2011, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889916"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ppl claim that this will cause fades to need more skill to play, but from what I see.. nothing stops someone from playing the fade as they do now... they just have more options to run around the map quicker / run away faster (ie.. fade will be more OP than now)
you can still fly straight towards a person as opposed to trying to 'leap' towards them in an arc<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, nothing would stop that being done, but you can balance the adrenaline costs to reward using the momentum. I would like to see a slightly lower initial cost but increased draining cost to make long blinks make you run out very quickly. This would promote combat blinking and letting the momentum and gravity have it's work instead of staying in Darwin-mode ethereal. Swipe would perhaps need a slight reduction in cost too.
I think a flying fade should use the crouched animation, it looks really aggressive and hostile, and seem to prepare for something to cross its path. Many of you probably haven't seen it, it's not often that fades stay stationary and crouch; create a game and go third person to have a look! This would in my opinion make it look fitting to sail through the air; even reducing its aerodynamic drag!