Ns2_metal
quazilin
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9880Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">As cold as metal.</div>Hi,
Currently learning some spark editing and wanted to start this topic for possible ns2 version of metal.
Any suggestions are very welcome and motivating of course.
Currently planning the layout how it would change from ns1 and remaking some areas that would be familiar from the old days.
Anything you would like to see, changed or removed etc. Say the words and I will try to finish the map hopefully next year...(yea right).
I will post some screenshots along the way, and have fun time testing the NS2 when possible.
Happy holidays.
-quazilin
Currently learning some spark editing and wanted to start this topic for possible ns2 version of metal.
Any suggestions are very welcome and motivating of course.
Currently planning the layout how it would change from ns1 and remaking some areas that would be familiar from the old days.
Anything you would like to see, changed or removed etc. Say the words and I will try to finish the map hopefully next year...(yea right).
I will post some screenshots along the way, and have fun time testing the NS2 when possible.
Happy holidays.
-quazilin
Comments
Happy holidays to you.
Yes, he is. It's even in his forum signature. And the website link also mentions it.
It looks nothing like the original Veil and it's not been properly played yet as it's not fully built and we don't have full NS2 gameplay, but we can hope.
I think the theme of metal suits the current art assets very well.
Thanks quazilin
loved ns_metal!
Late game marine/mine boost via Storage D pg rush?
Memories anyone???
- Storage D is a horrible node. You couldn't pressure surf-side nodes properly, since aliens starting with surface and capping Storage D and Heating together can buy too much time. I think marines shouldn't take too much time moving from node A to B with the pressure team. Not to mention any 4-node tactics where there would be enough time to rush base twice. However if the commander counters this and cuts off the aliens from north side, he can race the upgrade race, but I think this is just going around the problem, not solving it as it effectively decrease the amount of tactics available. The door and ladders are quite annoying too.
- Too many camping spots. Some were very clever, but when you have too many of them, it becomes like cloak, highly annoying. I like simplicity in camping spots, but complexity in aesthetics. More veilish, less shiva'ish. Veil has many camping spots that are far from obvious with a single look. A single marine can fight against one or two skulks on capper side in veil, but in metal its much harder because of ambush spots that slow the game down.
- I think the layout is pretty good but I'd rework the surface-storaged-heating area. I some ways I think its a bit too binary in nature. Think if veil had no west junction access to system, it would be much more decisive and in some sense predictable what will happen tacticwise. I'm not saying connecting heating room to storage will solve this, maybe it would be a good idea to work out the entire surface-side of the map. Try out different ideas. You might also consider connecting that lift-area and supply way to emulate c12-dome kind of connection.
- It would be nice if fading around the map wouldn't get you stuck too much. I dislike maps like shiva where the architecture is so complicated you cannot get good speed but have to combat with the map all the time. In this regard MS, Flight Control, Power Banks, Mineral, Sector F, Cooling, Supply way are fine but not the places with rapid elevation changes not so. When fades can move around the map without stopping, it becomes a better flow, and a battle between fades and jetpacks - not fades and map.
- Metal has a strange romance with places that are hard to get to but easy to defend. They're kind of binary in nature. Getting into surface is hard if aliens are prepared, but when you get there, it becomes much easier to push. If you contrast this to veil, places are much more like same.
- Strategywise this map is pretty good. PGs work, MT works, ARMS works etc. but I find late pressure no nodes highly difficult as solo marines can't achieve much whether its capping or pressuring. This limits the amount of tactics available. In veil a single marine has relatively small success probability spread compared to other maps which means well placed marines can be used by a smart commander.
- I haven't checked the statistics but even in veil, pickup-game stats give about 1:3 odds for marines which isn't quite shabby for "marine-biased map". My intuition would this number quite close to 1:5 or 1:6 in metal.
- I think aliens should have less vents so marines can block off their access, especially to base more easily. Some vents, marine-boostable could provide mc placement like in tanith, veil and orbital.
Of course so many things will change with NS2, but I think some of these points will remain valid, and it has something to do with graph-theoretic features of NS map layouts. I don't want another veil but there're some features that can be explained in vector graphs that are common factor for good maps. Have certain amount of vertices between adjacent nodes is one such condition.
I also loved metal! The Storage D issue also was the first thing for me to come to my mind. Also the elevator was kind of useless. Maybe you can replace this part with something more useful :)
You deserved a big thanks upfront for rebuilding metal. Cant wait to see the first screens! :)
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/heating_wip.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Looks good as a start, but you need more work on the lighting, just to name one thing.
But it's WIP, so keep on cranking :D
- Storage D is a horrible node. You couldn't pressure surf-side nodes properly, since aliens starting with surface and capping Storage D and Heating together can buy too much time. I think marines shouldn't take too much time moving from node A to B with the pressure team. Not to mention any 4-node tactics where there would be enough time to rush base twice. However if the commander counters this and cuts off the aliens from north side, he can race the upgrade race, but I think this is just going around the problem, not solving it as it effectively decrease the amount of tactics available. The door and ladders are quite annoying too.
- Too many camping spots. Some were very clever, but when you have too many of them, it becomes like cloak, highly annoying. I like simplicity in camping spots, but complexity in aesthetics. More veilish, less shiva'ish. Veil has many camping spots that are far from obvious with a single look. A single marine can fight against one or two skulks on capper side in veil, but in metal its much harder because of ambush spots that slow the game down.
- I think the layout is pretty good but I'd rework the surface-storaged-heating area. I some ways I think its a bit too binary in nature. Think if veil had no west junction access to system, it would be much more decisive and in some sense predictable what will happen tacticwise. I'm not saying connecting heating room to storage will solve this, maybe it would be a good idea to work out the entire surface-side of the map. Try out different ideas. You might also consider connecting that lift-area and supply way to emulate c12-dome kind of connection.
- It would be nice if fading around the map wouldn't get you stuck too much. I dislike maps like shiva where the architecture is so complicated you cannot get good speed but have to combat with the map all the time. In this regard MS, Flight Control, Power Banks, Mineral, Sector F, Cooling, Supply way are fine but not the places with rapid elevation changes not so. When fades can move around the map without stopping, it becomes a better flow, and a battle between fades and jetpacks - not fades and map.
- Metal has a strange romance with places that are hard to get to but easy to defend. They're kind of binary in nature. Getting into surface is hard if aliens are prepared, but when you get there, it becomes much easier to push. If you contrast this to veil, places are much more like same.
- Strategywise this map is pretty good. PGs work, MT works, ARMS works etc. but I find late pressure no nodes highly difficult as solo marines can't achieve much whether its capping or pressuring. This limits the amount of tactics available. In veil a single marine has relatively small success probability spread compared to other maps which means well placed marines can be used by a smart commander.
- I haven't checked the statistics but even in veil, pickup-game stats give about 1:3 odds for marines which isn't quite shabby for "marine-biased map". My intuition would this number quite close to 1:5 or 1:6 in metal.
- I think aliens should have less vents so marines can block off their access, especially to base more easily. Some vents, marine-boostable could provide mc placement like in tanith, veil and orbital.
Of course so many things will change with NS2, but I think some of these points will remain valid, and it has something to do with graph-theoretic features of NS map layouts. I don't want another veil but there're some features that can be explained in vector graphs that are common factor for good maps. Have certain amount of vertices between adjacent nodes is one such condition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great post Jiriki, I sure hope NS2 metal captures the same feeling as the original. Good luck quazilin!
droool.
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/wip2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/wip1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/wiply.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Seems like your getting a good hang on the new Spark editor. It took me a while, being a long-time source mapper, to fully adjust.
Just because i'm curious, are you going to be making the map as true to the original map as possible, or are you going to take a few artistic liberties such as how fmpone has done with Ns2_veil?
I'd be fine with it either way as long as the map is fun to play on, but it be interesting to see what you could pull of taking advantage of Spark's lighting system.
Best of luck!
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/surf1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and update to heating room.
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/fur1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not too much detail yet, ill try to get the layout up faster.
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/surf1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and update to heating room.
<img src="http://personal.inet.fi/hima/quazilin1/Maps/metal2/fur1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not too much detail yet, ill try to get the layout up faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looks awesome :)
Anyone know if they can use "elevators" in Ns2?
One of my favorit maps from Ns1 ( public ) was the one were marines had a BIG elevator in main base.
As for elevators, I was told no chance before 1.0, it's not on the devs' radar at all.