Some ideas about Gorge building structures
Classic319
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">i have some good idea</div>
I still think it's good to have alien commander, so that gorges don't need to volunteer for teams using their resources anymore.
But the problem is that aliens now depend on commander too much. They cannot build or set something at proper moment or skirmish situations, except little mini cysts and hydras. This shouldn't be happend.
Why do aliens have hive sight? Do you remember how organic were aliens back to NS1?
As marines follow orders, aliens cooperate each other. Therefore they have hive sight. That's the most important.
But let only alien commander drop some important structures made aliens less organic.
I don't mean to simply remove alien commander, but just let gorge be able to build some more structures.
So this is my basic thought.
As Gorges can drop Mini-Cysts while commander drops Cysts, why don't we let gorges build Mini-Crag -Shade -Whips?
For this, aliens and gorges can handle some emergency-situations and skirmishes themselves. Just not wait only for Drifters by commander come and be structures.
<i>My idea are these.</i>
<b>About Commander's Structures</b>
1. If commander set structures by using drifters, each one will be naturally "<i>Mature</i>" one. (Mature Crags, Mature Whips, Mature Shades ... shifts)
2. Those Mature-ones(structures) are bigger and strong than normal ones, but shouldn't be able to be spammed. Just only for upgrades and heavy defences at some important areas. - just like Armslab but also defends area..
ex)
- Upgrades
- Bigger, More efficient skills ... bigger Shade Cloud, stronger Shade Cloak, larger Umbra, Bigger and deadly balls of Whips...
p.s. so the cost of those Mature Structures and Drifters should be bit more expensive. Just like Armslab or Turret Factory of Marines.
<b>About Gorge's Structures</b>
1. Now, gorges can drop normal structures (The relationship is just same as Cysts. Comm:Gorge=Cysts:Mini Cysts=Mature Structures:Normal Structures)
- Gorges vomit, grow (normal, and also normal-sized)Crags, Shade, Shifts... but far less stronger or efficient as (mature)Structures by Commander. Just for some gorgeous gorge wall.
2. Skills of those by-gorge-dropped-normal structures can be functioned by individual aliens themselves. Just click E and comes (relatively-small) Shade Clouds or Umbras from proper structures.
By this,
commander and individual alien players can be more organic. While commander upgrades things and drops some structures at important areas, Gorges and other aliens can also make/set good gorge-wall and territory at some other corridors and areas. Not just to wait for commander finishes his jobs and sends drifters after, as i just said at first.
I hope you guys and devs contemplate about my idea
I still think it's good to have alien commander, so that gorges don't need to volunteer for teams using their resources anymore.
But the problem is that aliens now depend on commander too much. They cannot build or set something at proper moment or skirmish situations, except little mini cysts and hydras. This shouldn't be happend.
Why do aliens have hive sight? Do you remember how organic were aliens back to NS1?
As marines follow orders, aliens cooperate each other. Therefore they have hive sight. That's the most important.
But let only alien commander drop some important structures made aliens less organic.
I don't mean to simply remove alien commander, but just let gorge be able to build some more structures.
So this is my basic thought.
As Gorges can drop Mini-Cysts while commander drops Cysts, why don't we let gorges build Mini-Crag -Shade -Whips?
For this, aliens and gorges can handle some emergency-situations and skirmishes themselves. Just not wait only for Drifters by commander come and be structures.
<i>My idea are these.</i>
<b>About Commander's Structures</b>
1. If commander set structures by using drifters, each one will be naturally "<i>Mature</i>" one. (Mature Crags, Mature Whips, Mature Shades ... shifts)
2. Those Mature-ones(structures) are bigger and strong than normal ones, but shouldn't be able to be spammed. Just only for upgrades and heavy defences at some important areas. - just like Armslab but also defends area..
ex)
- Upgrades
- Bigger, More efficient skills ... bigger Shade Cloud, stronger Shade Cloak, larger Umbra, Bigger and deadly balls of Whips...
p.s. so the cost of those Mature Structures and Drifters should be bit more expensive. Just like Armslab or Turret Factory of Marines.
<b>About Gorge's Structures</b>
1. Now, gorges can drop normal structures (The relationship is just same as Cysts. Comm:Gorge=Cysts:Mini Cysts=Mature Structures:Normal Structures)
- Gorges vomit, grow (normal, and also normal-sized)Crags, Shade, Shifts... but far less stronger or efficient as (mature)Structures by Commander. Just for some gorgeous gorge wall.
2. Skills of those by-gorge-dropped-normal structures can be functioned by individual aliens themselves. Just click E and comes (relatively-small) Shade Clouds or Umbras from proper structures.
By this,
commander and individual alien players can be more organic. While commander upgrades things and drops some structures at important areas, Gorges and other aliens can also make/set good gorge-wall and territory at some other corridors and areas. Not just to wait for commander finishes his jobs and sends drifters after, as i just said at first.
I hope you guys and devs contemplate about my idea
Comments
'Oh look, a gorge, let's shoot it'
'Oh no, the gorge dropped a room full of stuff to kill us, what a twist'
Dropping structures in fights is not generally a good idea, simply because either you/they will die before they're completed, or you'll kill the marines before they finish and they become useless.
Gorges do and always will work best in support of attacks, fortifying just behind the front lines, or in key areas, keeping resource points secure, they're quite a valuable asset to the team. A gorge supporting an attack can allow aliens to hold their front line easier, secure the team an extra RT much faster and defend it for longer, and can also provide some useful siege support with bile bombs.
I don't think the gorge needs any changes, really. If I had any suggestions it'd be giving them the ability to spit healing clouds at long range, and maybe the ability to climb infested surfaces so they can use vents to get around the map.
'Oh look, a gorge, let's shoot it'
'Oh no, the gorge dropped a room full of stuff to kill us, what a twist'
Dropping structures in fights is not generally a good idea, simply because either you/they will die before they're completed, or you'll kill the marines before they finish and they become useless.
Gorges do and always will work best in support of attacks, fortifying just behind the front lines, or in key areas, keeping resource points secure, they're quite a valuable asset to the team. A gorge supporting an attack can allow aliens to hold their front line easier, secure the team an extra RT much faster and defend it for longer, and can also provide some useful siege support with bile bombs.
I don't think the gorge needs any changes, really. If I had any suggestions it'd be giving them the ability to spit healing clouds at long range, and maybe the ability to climb infested surfaces so they can use vents to get around the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That does happen already at NS1, when the gorge is pro. And that was much more fun
Oh sure I suppose the gorge might have a bit of fun the one or two times he actually manages to do that after spending no money for the entire rest of the game, but I somehow doubt the rest of the alien team appreciates their gorge wasting money on structure placements to catch a few marines off guard and then promptly die once the marines come prepared, rather than say, placing another hive or resource tower or levelling up their upgrade access. I also somehow doubt the marines enjoy having to shoot at structures instead of fighting actual players. This is ostensibly a multiplayer game after all, the amount of structure shooting should be kept to a minimum if possible.
I think the new gorge is much better, forcing players to use hydras as area deterrants rather than bullet sponges works much better, it works much like sentry guns in fact. You don't spend much time shooting them up, they mostly serve as something you try to avoid. They allow area control but players tend to keep out of the way of them rather than fight them very slowly.
The evasion mechanic works better because your solution is generally to get some dedicated anti-structure support which can deal with it quickly and easily, and turns the game back into player vs player. Players fight to get to your siege equipment through your frontline units, so it keeps the fighting between players. It's really rather clever and could use some formalising I think, currently the aliens sort of lack some easily accessible siege equipment but maybe whip bombard will change that. Fades also tend to be a bit resistant to sentry guns, sentry guns in general are a bit unreliable, but the idea certainly seems to be there.
love it. but doesn't work? are you still considering it to implement as official one?
It gives gorges more possibilities to support their team.
It's been a while since I tried to prototype mod, so can't remember how it was.
But you should be tied to whatever tech structures your commander have already dropped.
So if your commander have built a crag, you can build mini-crags, and so on.
That's how it worked in NS1, except it was whatever first structure was built by whatever gorge. It also holds true now with the khamm, the hive's type is what type of chamber the khamm can drop until they get a new hive.
I think something like this needs to happen, the gorge is a joke class now. Just a sad, fat, belly sliding and hydra spitting version of what used to BE the kharaa commander. The only three things they are good at right now are A- Healing, B- Hydras, and C- Bile Bomb, two of which are terrible. Without adrenaline (or whatever its ns2 counterpart will be), there isn't enough energy to really heal well; and the Hydras are just an annoyance -> one full mag from one marine usually kills one hydra. Bile Bomb also suffers from lack of adrenaline (though not as much as healing), but it more suffers from that khamms often forget to research it, or that its only available fairly late in the game, or that the tongue covers up where the bomb is impacting.
Gorges need something back of their former glory, or something new to create some new glory.
gorges will get in the next patch bile bomb automatically, since that research was not anything optional you can research. you actually have to research it, but most comms forget to do that (for whatever reason).
also infestation and spit will change. i cannot give any details about spit, since it's not fixed yet.
i think you have seen the news about new infestation prototypes. one of the ideas is to give the infestation "thickness" at some places (the more cysts/infestation -> thicker) which could have higher healing rates and maybe we also would see energy gain on infestation (which could also scale with infestation thickness). this would adress the gorge energy problem, without making other life forms too powerful (since they anyway don't depend as much as the gorge on energy). i already wrote a small mod for dePara to test the bonus energy gain on HBZ and it worked just great. (i think it's currently active there)
if it will now be infestation that grants more energy, or the shift or a shift upgrade does not really matter. i prefer the infestation method, but we will see.
the only reason why i love the mini structure idea, is not to give the gorge more purpose. i like the atmosphere that can be created, and more synergy between comm and gorges.
I like that change, making it like leap, it helps form the feel of when the 2nd hive goes up.
Having to upgrade bilebomb always felt annoying to me somehow, and often forgot it as you said.
<!--quoteo(post=1891965:date=Dec 28 2011, 05:31 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Dec 28 2011, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also infestation and spit will change. i cannot give any details about spit, since it's not fixed yet.
i think you have seen the news about new infestation prototypes. one of the ideas is to give the infestation "thickness" at some places (the more cysts/infestation -> thicker) which could have higher healing rates and maybe we also would see energy gain on infestation (which could also scale with infestation thickness). this would adress the gorge energy problem, without making other life forms too powerful (since they anyway don't depend as much as the gorge on energy). i already wrote a small mod for dePara to test the bonus energy gain on HBZ and it worked just great. (i think it's currently active there)
if it will now be infestation that grants more energy, or the shift or a shift upgrade does not really matter. i prefer the infestation method, but we will see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you are trying to adress something that's going to be adressed by the adrenaline upgrade anyway.
Also, infestation is very easily accessable in late game, if you can stack the effects of it, you can create some insane bottlenecks in game.
You are simply creating the same problem the crag passive healing has, stacking.
In NS1 this was an issue that got fixed during the different versions of the game.
And I think it should be adressed, and thought about in the development of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1891965:date=Dec 28 2011, 05:31 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Dec 28 2011, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only reason why i love the mini structure idea, is not to give the gorge more purpose. i like the atmosphere that can be created, and more synergy between comm and gorges.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like it because it gives the gorge some diversity. Every gorge plays the same atm.
I couldn't agree more with this, in fact I would say all the alien lifeforms play the same (as themselves). Granted there aren't many abilities yet, but atm its a pretty major concern in my opinion - especially with talking about keeping the gorge's building abilities minimal and automatically providing healing and energy and bile bomb? I hated when khaam's would forget to get the upgrade, but I think its more due to the fact that they don't know what building has what upgrades on it. And there is no where for the khaam (or comm) to see the upgrades in a simple manner - like the fps players have on their hud.
Please don't think I'm arguing to keep the research of abilities, 'cause I think that Should be automatic. I'm just saying that making everything happen automatically sounds like its taking a walk down boring lane. I'm really just not seeing the idea of having the infestation provide so many benefits..
I don't claim to have an answer for how this might be solved, because it's a tough issue to address. I just thought I'd put my two cents in.