Suggestions, ideas, brainstorms, blah, blah

Wolpertinger · December 2011

So,

I love the game.

Even though it is highly frustrating sometimes. Usually I would regret spending 35 bucks for a game (since Steam I don't pay more than 8-10 bucks for a game, most of the time.)
But this game is so awesome, so I want it to get better and better.

<span style="color:#FFA500"><b>Perks</b></span>

I know, I know. Modern Warfare more or less introduced them, and the Modern Warfare series sucks for various reasons in multiplayer.

But I am not talking about these ridicolously overpowered perks. More like team-specified task-oriented perks. And the more powerful a perk is, the higher its level/cost is.
Here are some of my ideas for perks.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Heat Vision (Level 2 Perk, <i>Marines</i>)</span>
Something like the alien-view.
To visualize it for the aliens whether a marine has heat vision or not he would have goggles on with red lights, that are easily visible.
Some aliens may have greater heat than others. - Or would develope heat if they move a lot, or wait a lot (?).
Heat vision could also be used to identify phantasms/fake aliens.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Agility (Level 1 Perk, <i>Marines/Aliens</i>)</span>
Marines and Aliens move faster.
Marines and Aliens could jump higher/farther.
Also Marines would reload faster.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Build/Repair faster (Level 1 Perk, <i>Marines</i>)</span>

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* More health (Level 2 Perk, <i>Marines/Aliens</i>)</span>

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Reinforcer (Level 3 Perk, <i>Marines</i>)</span>
Can add extra-health to structures. Once this extra-health is gone, it would stay gone, until it would be added manually again.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Cold Blood [Level 2 Perk, <i>Aliens</i>)</span>
Aliens would become invisible to heat vision.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Silent [Level 3 Perk, <i>Aliens</i>)</span>
Aliens would move silently.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* More Ammo [Level 3 Perk, <i>Marines/Aliens</i>)</span>
More ammo capicity.

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Ultrasonic Scream [Level 3 Perk, <i>Aliens</i>)</span>
Certain Alien classes could use this (?). It has quite some cooldown time.
It would disturb the vision of marines and disable the radar?

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Anti-Fade-Shield [Level 2 Perk, <i>Marines</i>)</span>
Marines would individually have an area around themselfs in which fades could not get out of their blink-phase. 2-3 meters, maybe?

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Heavy tactical armour/suit [Level 3 Perk, <i>Marines</i>)</span>
This would basically turn a Marine into a <i>moving tank</i>. It should be very, very expensive.
While in this suit, the Marine is immensely slowed down, but obviously could take a lot of damage.
He could use a mini-gun/gatling-gun that does not a a lot of damage with a single shot but over-time with its 300/400+ magazine.
I really think this is necessary so the Marines could have a tank who would become the focus for aliens, a critical target.
The Marine in Heavy Tactical Armour/Suit could also not use the jetpack.
Also only a very limited number of Marines could use this.

So, here my idea how the perks could be applied ingame.
At the <i>armory[i] or [i]before the game</i> you could select for Marine perks and Alien perks.

<span style="color:#FFA500"><b>Perks for Marines</b></span> would have to be researched by the commander first. Level 1 perk, Level 2 perk, Level 3 perk...
They would not be activated automatically. Marines would have to return to an armory to get their perks. (- They would have to buy them?)

<span style="color:#FFA500"><b>Perks for Aliens</b></span> would not be bound to commander. Aliens would "evolve" overtime. Or maybe on killstreaks or point-/score-streaks. Or the longer they stay alive the more perks they get.

After every death the perks would reset to 0.

Maybe even have <span style="color:#FFA500"><b>team-perks</b></span> that commander could buy after upgrading that would apply to all players. Of course they should not be as powerful.

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Possible idea for balancing is an <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>Anti-Fade-Shield/Upgrade</b></span>. For turrets or buildings, etc. Has to be assigned to each structure individually.
If a fade could not be any longer in blink-phase he would die/take damage (?) or would be "kicked" out of the area and instantly respawn when possible.

----

Another possible tool for Marines: <b>Spraycan</b>. A marine could mark an Alien if he is upclose and spray markers on him. This alien would be visible to all marines for some time. (Or maybe a <b>Marking-Dart</b>.

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An idea for <i>commander-ability</i> is <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>Sealing the vents</b></span>. This would require a Marine to finish the task. The Aliens would take some time to destroy the sealing.

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Marines could also need <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>grenades of different</b></span> kinds. Even with <b>remote detonater</b>?

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Also I think flamethrower-marines need some respect from Aliens. So maybe their flamethrower-ammo/-tanks would <i>explode</i>. This would make Aliens more careful when they would try to kill a marine having this weapon equipped. So they would try to kill the Marine from a distance.

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<i>Commander-ability</i> for Marines:<span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>Self-destruction</b></span> of single structures if the commander sees them lost anyway, so the Aliens could still take some damage just before the building goes down.
Maybe would the building require to be under 20% or 10%. Would take some energy/ressources.

(Maybe Aliens have something like that, as well? Sacrifice?)

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Very expensive <i>commander-ability</i> for Aliens: <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>Mind Control</b></span> - commander could take control of one Marine for limited time. Also Marine needs to have been on infestation for some time? Requires to create a parasite?

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If a <i>Skulk</i> would jump down on Marine from (very) high positions, this should cause some damage.

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Also I think the <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>map needs LOTS of improvement</b></span>. As well as a mini-map. The different areas should be seperated with yellow lines, maybe? And vents need to be distinguishable. And enemies need to pop out more. The commander should also be able to put marks on the map. A, B, C, 1, 2, 3, etc. ...

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The <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>teleporting is also quite difficult</b></span>. Marines should be able to select a preferred point. Or maybe are asked before they teleport where they want. Port 1, Port 2, etc. ...

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And to reward players for gaming, some kind of profile would be nice. With statistics, number of kills and deaths, score, etc. Maybe even some costumization for Marines and their armor.

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EDIT: Please allow a <span style="color:#FFFF00"><b>kick commander vote</b></span>. The kicked person should not be able to be commander for the next 5 minutes.

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So, these are my ideas/brainstorms so far.
I hope the Natural Selection 2 team is very responsive to these kind of suggestions.

I see you ingame.

Harimau · December 2011

Because this is not just an FPS but also an RTS, rather than having perks, we have <b>researched</b> upgrades.

RE: Mind Control specifically... it's been brought up several times before, but I don't think so. It's self-contradictory on two levels: If you join the alien team, you ostensibly didn't want to play as a marine. If you become a commander, you ostensibly didn't want to play on the ground. Why then would you, as an alien commander, control a marine on the ground?

Other stuff that I found interesting:

Self-destruction is interesting but it could be a bit OP, though. Not OP in the sense that it's game-changing. But OP in the sense that you get too much reward for little to no risk or expense.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the map".

Kick (eject) commander will be coming. I'm not sure why it isn't in already.

Teleporting to a gate of your choosing has been brought up before, and I agree with you. However, it doesn't exactly mesh well thematically - since they're basically gates that you step through. Maybe just leave it up to the commander to choose the cyclical order.

player · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 08:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Kick (eject) commander will be coming. I'm not sure why it isn't in already.</div>
Isn't it in already then? It's under 'v' I believe, though admittedly I haven't a clue how it is supposed to work and have never seen it actually eject someone. I'll probably re-do it when Server-Client Lua-sync is in.

Wolpertinger · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Because this is not just an FPS but also an RTS, rather than having perks, we have <b>researched</b> upgrades.</div>

Yes, but I like the idea of having a more costumized experience for the player. That he himself becomes a more valuable asset of the team.
Some players like to have a little extra ammo, another player likes to reload faster.

Of course, it should not be too powerful. Just enough to be rewarding for the individual player.

And as I said, the Marines should rely on their commander to upgrade the armory so they would have access to the Level 1 perk at first, then Level 2 perk, etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Self-destruction is interesting but it could be a bit OP, though. Not OP in the sense that it's game-changing. But OP in the sense that you get too much reward for little to no risk or expense.</div>

Well, it would not be a passive feature that just happens after 1%. The commander would have to be there and be aware of what is happening and "hit the button" manually.
And of course the impact would depend on the actual damage you could do. - I think the bigger the structure the more damage/the bigger the radius.
And of course this would only be avaible after an upgrade.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not sure what you mean by "the map".</div>

The map you see when you hit C. The different elements are not distinguishable enough.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>RE: Mind Control specifically... it's been brought up several times before, but I don't think so. It's self-contradictory on two levels: If you join the alien team, you ostensibly didn't want to play as a marine. If you become a commander, you ostensibly didn't want to play on the ground. Why then would you, as an alien commander, control a marine on the ground?</div>

Well... This, of course, depends on the player. Sometimes a player is not as keen to be the commander, but has to because he is good at it.
And I doubt that there are players who play NS2 exclusively for RTS or FPS or wants to play only Marines or Aliens. At some point everybody has to do everything at least once, right?
And if UWE were to introduce a heavy-tank-perk or whatever it would be for the Marines, this would make this character also more vulnerable/valuable. Like he would need a flamethrower at his side so parasites or the infestation would not take control of the Marine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Dec 25 2011, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Isn't it in already then? It's under 'v' I believe, though admittedly I haven't a clue how it is supposed to work and have never seen it actually eject someone. I'll probably re-do it when Server-Client Lua-sync is in.</div>

So far I have not seen this possibility.

Estevoo · December 2011

what about when player is an alien it's upsidedown, the camera turn upsidown too?

Broseidon · December 2011

The thing is that if perks do such little change, then is it worth researching?
The aliens pretty much already have a sort of perks system like frenzy, swarm, cloak etc but these upgrades actually makes a difference. Frenzy allows lifeforms to be on the front during a longer time before falling back to heal up. Swarm promotes team work by the aliens so that they can take down marines and their structures faster. Thought I have seen on the progress tracker that the alien upgrades are going to be revamped.
Honestly most of these perks are pretty OP like silent, because stealth, environmental awareness and engagement is such a big deal in NS2 that not being able do hear some enemies as good when they are in full speed would hurt this element pretty badly. I can most of the time know what is coming for me just by listening. Fun fact: You often know that a fade is on the map by hearing it not seeing it.
Heat vision would destroy the advantage that aliens have in down powered rooms as well as some asymmetric differences between the aliens and marines.
This heavy tactical armor suit will be in the way of the coming god knows when exosuit that is currently planned to use weapons on a cool down basis, duel wield mini guns and not being able to use jet pack.
Well buildings don't really need a fade shield because fades makes very low damage to structures and it will just make it frustrating for moving around as a fade in a marine base. Fades are made to kill marines.
I like this sealing vents idea. Gives the marines more control of their base so that random skulks don't pop out of vents that you have no ability to cover.
I can see that most of these ideas are brain stormed (as in the title) and comes from an exited NS2 fan which is a good thing :P

Wolpertinger · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Broseidon @ Dec 25 2011, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891615"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Well buildings don't really need a fade shield because fades makes very low damage to structures and it will just make it frustrating for moving around as a fade in a marine base. Fades are made to kill marines.</div>

Well, okay. But at least a shield-generator would be nice. Like an energy-wall that could be upgraded to also block Fades in blink-phase.

For special-perks, how about that. There are certain science-terminals in the map or whatever that Marines have to capture and hold to be able to use perks.

Wolpertinger · December 2011

Another perk idea:

<span style="color:#FFFF00">* Life Vision (Level 3 Perk, <i>Aliens</i>)</span>
The Alien with this perk can see the life of other players. As percentage or visual indicator, like color.

swalk · December 2011

Ejecting commanders IS in the game.
As earlier stated it's in the voting menu, default bind is V.
I'm not sure how the system works, but it had a bug a while ago where only two people needed to vote to eject.
I'm not sure if the bug is still in the game.
Perks is not the best idea for an RTS/FPS, get some ideas for upgrades instead.
Alot of your ideas are not really suited for the gameplay of NS2, I suggest you log more hours in the game.

botchiball · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 25 2011, 03:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Teleporting to a gate of your choosing has been brought up before, and I agree with you. However, it doesn't exactly mesh well thematically - since they're basically gates that you step through. Maybe just leave it up to the commander to choose the cyclical order.</div>

I believe this was an NS1 mod, if not eventually part of the actual game and it saved against immense headaches. Personally I don't see how this could be considered 'not thematically meshing' -> its a digital device which rips your body apart, sends the molecules an unknown distance away, and puts the molecules back together (and in order). If the creator of a device like that couldn't think to put in a user interface.. then there is something seriously wrong with them.

Besides, with such a device being so simple to construct and so sturdy against damage, I would expect them to be all over Earth or wherever people live at that point. Gotta go to the grocery store? Just call them up and step through your phase gate. Don't have time to take the 100% eco-friendly tram to work? No worries, just dial your office and step on through. This isn't the Alien franchise - computers have obviously continued to evolve along with humans. With the level of tech the marines use on a daily basis, I would hope that it would be as streamlined as possible.

Techercizer · December 2011

Actually, according to lore, phase gates are cutting-edge experimental Frontiersman technology; the rest of humanity doesn't even believe something like them is possible.

I believe the reason there isn't a user interface, thematically speaking, is because each phase gate can only connect to one other gate at a time; it's a straight A-to-B affair no matter how many other gates are nearby. Balance-wise, I think it's because PGs are meant to allow troops to deploy quickly, and UIs add tedious and time-consuming delays to reaching the front line.

Letting the Com select phase gate routes would work well for both of those.

botchiball · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Dec 26 2011, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, according to lore, phase gates are cutting-edge experimental Frontiersman technology; the rest of humanity doesn't even believe something like them is possible.

I believe the reason there isn't a user interface, thematically speaking, is because each phase gate can only connect to one other gate at a time; it's a straight A-to-B affair no matter how many other gates are nearby. Balance-wise, I think it's because PGs are meant to allow troops to deploy quickly, and UIs add tedious and time-consuming delays to reaching the front line.

Letting the Com select phase gate routes would work well for both of those.</div>

Hmm, I stand corrected. I went to find the lore you're speaking of, but while I didn't find it, I seem to remember reading it before. I would still hope the designer would think to put some sort of UI into the design. But regardless of being in the NS world, jumping through 5 different phase gates to find the right one is simply annoying - not to mention tasking on my computer as it has to load everything up every time I phase and my FPS drops significantly. And the amount of tediousness or time consuming delays are easily solved by looking at the NS1 equivalent. Mind blowingly awesome.

Techercizer · December 2011

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/world/techtrope_1.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/wor...echtrope_1.html</a>

Phase Gates are referenced as previously unheard-of localized variants of the gates they use to jump between stars.

botchiball · December 2011

"Weï¿½ve been promised personal phase gates in cities and stations for decades now, but theyï¿½ve never made it through to implementation. Apparently, the TSA has figured out how to make them a reality."

Thanks for the link, I thought I had read it before. Its a wonderful, if horrible, canvas the writer paints. Hopefully they get out the brush and paint some more eh? : ).

botchiball · December 2011

Sorry, got off topic there. Anyway, back to your suggestions above, I'm with most other people in that I like the concept, but your suggestions seem to be either too powerful or too different -> like the shield generator. That really would just slow the game down without really adding anything - unless you can think of how a wall would improve game play.

I'd like to see something more like the following, where you give individual marines some of the basic functions of the commander:

Customized Marines
-selectable by inidividual soldiers. The benefits and abilities are increased as the Comm researches a generic "perk level" at the armory so its always easily available. Another thought is that it could upgrade on its own as tech points are gathered, or while the armory or another building is upgraded - though I don't really like the idea of taking command away from the commander.

To choose this, the player just uses the armory and selects the 'custom' option of their choice - it doesn't cost res. At this point, the player gains whatever benefits they get at this level, and they keep this "Perk Set" until they choose another - they don't have to pick it each time upon respawning. And another thought was to switch the level 1 and 2 skills around - giving more power to the player right off, but then all of this is debatable.

Level 1 - Passive Abilities
Level 2 - Active Abilities
Level 3 - Master Abilities

<span style="color:#FF0000"><u>3 Deffensive Perk Sets</u></span>
<span style="color:#98FB98">-Medic -></span>
lvl1: Any med pack gathered by this marine gains 10% healing effect
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which provides healing for any player they use it on, or themselves, costs PRes
lvl3: Marine gains 25% to their health cap and provides their level 1 bonus to every marine currently in their dynamic team

<span style="color:#98FB98">-Mechanic -></span>
lvl1: This marine has 10% build speed
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which provides the ability to build various structures with their PRes - power nodes and resource towers
lvl3: Can now also build sentries, observatories, and can build a personal MAC which will follow the player around help them build/repair whatever they are working on (does not provide build speed benefit to team members, but the MAC is assisting in building)

<span style="color:#98FB98">-Defender -></span>
lvl1: Any Nano Shield gathered by this marine gains 10% duration.
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which provides nano shields for any player they use it on, or themselves, costs PRes
lvl3: Marine gains 25% to their armor cap and provides their level 1 bonus to every marine currently in their dynamic team

<span style="color:#FF0000"><u>3 Offensive Perk Sets</u></span>
<span style="color:#98FB98">-Carrier -></span>
lvl1: Any Ammo pack gathered by this marine gains 10% ammunition amount.
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which provides ammo for any player they use it on, or themselves, costs PRes
lvl3: Marine gains 25% to their ammo clip and provides their level 1 bonus to every marine currently in their dynamic team

<span style="color:#98FB98">-Warrior-></span>
lvl1: Any Stem pack gathered by this marine gains 10% effectiveness.
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which provides stem packs for any player they use it on, or themselves, costs PRes
lvl3: Marine gains 25% to their ammo clip and provides their level 1 bonus to every marine currently in their dynamic team

<span style="color:#98FB98">-Skirmisher-></span>
lvl1: Increases player move speed by 10%
lvl2: Gains a 'weapon' which creates mines which can be placed wherever necessary, costs PRes
lvl3: Reduces movement and Axe attack noise by 75% and provides their level 1 bonus to every marine currently in their dynamic team

Using these "Custom Weapons" requires the player to actually switch to the new weapon and therefore removes their ability to shoot until they switch back. The idea here is to provide multiple options and overlap of abilities to the marines, while not creating tons of new abilities or trade offs - everything I've suggested is essentially in the game already. Perhaps with the exception of noise reduction, but kharaa did have it in NS1.

All of this is actually leading up to a bigger point which I was going to start a different thread on, but this thread seems to fit the bill enough - and that is: <span style="color:#00FFFF">NS2 seems too complicated to be sold to Joe Shmoe Gamer who is used to Halo and Modern Warfare.</span> Leaving all the power in the hands of just the commander is just asking to piss off new-comers who can't get a handle on everything they are supposed to do. Not to mention the die hard fans (you know who you are) who are less than kind about informing a new Comm or Khaam at how much they are screwing up. I think the tasks which the Comm and Khaam handle needs to be shared by other players just to relieve some pressure and help games progress a bit smoother. And its not just Marines, Kharaa need an overlap of power as well, its just good business.

In my opinion, this is why Combat worked so well - its also why die hard fans of classic tend to look down on CO. Most people prefer simple games, most people like to be served their crumpets on a silver platter, and NS1 players aren't "most people". But as a commercial stand-alone title, NS2 really needs to cater to the stupid people, *cough* sorry, to the "most" people. Which this kind of perk/class system would allow for without ruining the game, at least I would hope not.

Harimau · December 2011

I like that the perks discussed introduce more variety within standard load-outs as well as more gradual gains, but I think: we have a resource system, so let's use it.

botchiball · December 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 26 2011, 11:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I like that the perks discussed introduce more variety within standard load-outs as well as more gradual gains, but I think: we have a resource system, so let's use it.</div>

I agree, but I was thinking it would be basic load out. If you require res for a 'perk' system, then there are likely times where players wont be able to afford the 'perk'. Then again.. I guess that's why its called a 'perk' and not a 'given', I don't know. I'm not suggesting everything is free though, just the choosing of the load out - actually using the perk weapon would require use of the players PRes.

Its like the basic assault rifle, pistol, and knife/axe, players aren't paying for them in PRes or TRes - they're just part of their standard load out.

Suggestions, ideas, brainstorms, blah, blah

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