zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1903006:date=Feb 14 2012, 08:32 AM:name=reaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reaven @ Feb 14 2012, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903006"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it has too many corridors, and these are too long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm slowly replacing the corridors with rooms, been breaking them down bit by bit with each update. My next update will have even more broken up corridors. It's a hard change just to do in one update, so after a few more updates, it will no longer have any long corridors.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
This is why you need to release earlier for testing, making all these changes are that little bit easier at that stage :)
Keep going, I really think this is going to turn out fantastic when it is finally done. Just realise now the real work starts on the map :)
The curved corridor in the bottom right that goes to engineering you need to keep. I know I amended it on my map, but i forgot about the big slope down.
Make it look like a room, but have the path still make you go down that slope, with a relatively low roof, it's one of the best parts of the map for high speed JP movement :)
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1903076:date=Feb 14 2012, 12:54 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 14 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903076"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why you need to release earlier for testing, making all these changes are that little bit easier at that stage :)
Keep going, I really think this is going to turn out fantastic when it is finally done. Just realise now the real work starts on the map :)
The curved corridor in the bottom right that goes to engineering you need to keep. I know I amended it on my map, but i forgot about the big slope down.
Make it look like a room, but have the path still make you go down that slope, with a relatively low roof, it's one of the best parts of the map for high speed JP movement :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Soul, thanks for all your support and encouragement. So far you've been like a mentor to me, and I really appreciate that :)
This is looking really good, and different from the official maps :) I'd say your lighting is quite good, it's very much like NS1 on certain maps, yet still very modern. I see you haven't finished the lighting yet, but I'd say overall, the ambiance, is quite nice.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Those last screens look amazing! I agree with Soul_rider when he says that the real fun part of mapping is once you have released something and you see how it plays. When you work on it alone you work for yourself, but once you start working on it with the insight of people it stops being your little baby, meets new people and becomes an adult in his own terms. And you the mapper become the facilitator of this process. It gives much more meaning to your work.
Keep it up! :D
/
An issue I see with your layout though is you have too many named places. Name only the places that have a tactical situation like a tp room or an rt, or a room that can be given to the team by the com to tell where to pass.
It is not necessary to name each detail like showers, or each corridor like navigation/distribution which is confusing for the team.
Some names could be regrouped too, Calibration for example could be attached to generator for example. Same thing with pit, tunnels and storage.
Basically name just enough places for the team to be able to navigate throughout the map. The details should speak for themselves ;)
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Yeah, I'm enjoying the feedback. Originally when I started, I enjoyed the process of making my own space and wandering around and being inside a creation of mine, but at this stage I'm enjoying the feedback I'm getting to push it further in areas that I might not have considered.
You know what, Callibration was initially created for a resource node - I might add it back in as early gameplay tests show marines having difficulty holding their extractors and shooting skulks in the corridors. Could aliens be overpowered in my map?
Next update won't be for a while. I did the last two updates like a crazy person who doesn't need to eat, pee or sleep. Taking a break for a week maybe to do some drawing.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
I have found it very difficult balancing the teams. I think aliens are having more ease at the moment due to the engine. So don't worry too much about that.
But an rt there does seam at it place :p
In fact it makes me think, balance the map considering balanced teams, once the game is running good, then the map will be up to shape.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1903350:date=Feb 15 2012, 04:42 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Feb 15 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In fact it makes me think, balance the map considering balanced teams, once the game is running good, then the map will be up to shape.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easier said than done, right now, it seems anything goes!
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Wow, new screens look awesome! Does the marines still spawn at Cargo Bay? In the gather, both teams spawned there, and it was very hard for marines to capture any resources from that location. Processing was too hard to defend when aliens spawned in Storage. And the walking distance to the next closest node in Engineering is painful for marines as well. I think you should remove Cargo Bay as a marine spawn and make it an alien spawn instead, like my previous suggestion. :) And then add a node location at Rotunda, I think it's a good place for a resnode. Possible for marines to defend it from Engineering and Navigation, and possible for aliens to pressure it. Cause marines need another resnode that is near both of the north spawns. They have trouble getting resources as it is now.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
Hey Swalk, I made the changes you suggested, although I decided not to make cargo bay a starting spawn for either marines or aliens, because aliens would be too close to marines at the start. Thanks.
I'm really loving the SS and vids of your map. I'd love to see this map become an official one so I can try it out as well.
I got 1 question tho: is it just me or are most the res nodes clustered in the bottom of the map?
It would be really hard for a team to spawn in the top tech point with the opposing team in the bottom corner left one. It seems the walking distances to the res nodes are a bit off. Maybe i'm wrong and there is no problem but this is just my observation.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1905863:date=Feb 22 2012, 02:39 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Feb 22 2012, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey Swalk, I made the changes you suggested, although I decided not to make cargo bay a starting spawn for either marines or aliens, because aliens would be too close to marines at the start. Thanks.
<img src="http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4707/2012022200001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a much better solution than I came up with! Now I will try to get some more games going on your map. Really like the recent changes you've done, and I think it should play much better now.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Sorry about the lack of updates. I just found out I got awarded a Squad 5 silver for this project which means that the map hasn't been completely forgotten about. That's probably a wake up call for me to get this thing going again. :D
<!--quoteo(post=1939969:date=May 30 2012, 10:12 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ May 30 2012, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry about the lack of updates. I just found out I got awarded a Squad 5 silver for this project which means that the map hasn't been completely forgotten about. That's probably a wake up call for me to get this thing going again. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a blast running around there during the aftermatch of a gather some months ago. Do note that you couldn't see an approaching onos running down the east corridor if you were standing in the back of engineering bay as the model render at a shorter distance then LoS provides. You can notice this if you try to fly of to freedom in Crevice too. I really like the open space and speed the skulks and onos could get there, but you would need to somehow break it up to not cause those issues. The same thing happened if you ran from generator towards navigation, but you have added some room there, so I don't know how it is now.
Keep up the good work! Really fun and interesting map!
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1942180:date=Jun 8 2012, 12:31 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jun 8 2012, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens we're unable to redrop the hive in refinery after it had been killed. That tech node was also the alien start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for letting me know, I'm not sure how I can fix that, any ideas?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->[edit: This has now been fixed]<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1942184:date=Jun 7 2012, 11:22 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jun 7 2012, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for letting me know, I'm not sure how I can fix that, any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, no. Maybe try redoing the tech node?
#1: Here at east corridor the sight line is still too long. The room you added to break it up is a good start. What I would suggest is to shift the south exit to that new room to the circled area and possibly even consider shifting that room entirely south a touch. You may also consider adding a vent in that room so smaller alien lifeforms have an escape route as currently that corridor has the potential to be a deathtrap.
#2: The control room tech point is very very cramped. To fix this you could combine control room and server room into a single room. If you do it would probably be a good idea to shift the tech point north slightly as currently it has a long sight line down the corridor that goes to maintenance.
#3: This area is a little too complex. The resource node here is also tied to the Distribution tech point power node which is really unintuitive when looking at the minimap. I would put an RT near the distribution tech point and then either leave the RT in question where it is and tie it to observation power or shift it down into Access. If you do leave it where it is I would expand the room around it just a tad as currently attacking that node as an alien is walking into a claustrophobic death trap.
#4: Engineering suffers from the same problem as Control Room. It is very tight and hard to place structures (especially as a marine). A fix for this would be to just expand the room to the north (this will also have the good side effect of shortening the long hallway from Generator to Engineering.
Another one I forgot to mark on the image is in Maintenance. The pit there is a little easy to fall into as an Onos or Gorge. I would consider putting railings around it to discourage such things since there is no way to get out of that pit as those lifeforms.
Thanks for making this map it has been a lot of fun getting to play something different.
P.S. For the Refinery TP issue, try deleting the brushwork around the techpoint and remaking it. There could be a clipping issue. (I would also check the height of the ceiling as that could also cause problems of the hive not fitting properly there when trying to drop it)
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Hey Industry, really appreciate the tips, will look into fixing those. Also I redid the brushwork for Refinery TP, and now it works, thanks for all the help :)
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
Latest build just uploaded to Steam Workshop ...
Changelog:
update 10/06/2012 - version 268b
- Issue with Refinery tech point now fixed (Thanks to ScardyBob and Industry!) - Distribution resource node moved to same room as tech point. - Added more build space level with tech point in Refinery. - Tidied up commander view.
I played this yesterday for the first time. Thanks for putting in all the work and giving us a new map to play with :)
My first impressions after a round or two
There are some really neat designs like the light tunnel, and I like how there's height in this map and different levels. The gameplay really changes depending what life form you are or if you have a jet pack.
Engineering needs to be redesigned, it hugely favours aliens who can get in and out with little chance for marines to shoot them, and all the marine structures are conveniently piled together in a tight square, delicious :P
Comments
I'm slowly replacing the corridors with rooms, been breaking them down bit by bit with each update. My next update will have even more broken up corridors. It's a hard change just to do in one update, so after a few more updates, it will no longer have any long corridors.
Keep going, I really think this is going to turn out fantastic when it is finally done. Just realise now the real work starts on the map :)
The curved corridor in the bottom right that goes to engineering you need to keep. I know I amended it on my map, but i forgot about the big slope down.
Make it look like a room, but have the path still make you go down that slope, with a relatively low roof, it's one of the best parts of the map for high speed JP movement :)
Keep going, I really think this is going to turn out fantastic when it is finally done. Just realise now the real work starts on the map :)
The curved corridor in the bottom right that goes to engineering you need to keep. I know I amended it on my map, but i forgot about the big slope down.
Make it look like a room, but have the path still make you go down that slope, with a relatively low roof, it's one of the best parts of the map for high speed JP movement :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Soul, thanks for all your support and encouragement. So far you've been like a mentor to me, and I really appreciate that :)
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
Many thanks for all the feedback!
update 14/02/2012 - version 4.0a
Changelog v.4.0a
- Brighter lights, greater visibility
- Default fog removed - map is clearer to play
- Tidier geometry so infestation does not leak through walls
- Moved power point in Core
- Added ladder to Refinery Entrance/ ladder in RR now works! :P
- Staggered long Distribution corridor with new room
- Fixed power grid issues in Cargo Bay (overlapping locations)
- Another new room 'Tunnel' towards pressure control to reduce corridor length
Keep it up! :D
/
An issue I see with your layout though is you have too many named places. Name only the places that have a tactical situation like a tp room or an rt, or a room that can be given to the team by the com to tell where to pass.
It is not necessary to name each detail like showers, or each corridor like navigation/distribution which is confusing for the team.
Some names could be regrouped too, Calibration for example could be attached to generator for example. Same thing with pit, tunnels and storage.
Basically name just enough places for the team to be able to navigate throughout the map. The details should speak for themselves ;)
The lighting could be better in some areas as well.
You know what, Callibration was initially created for a resource node - I might add it back in as early gameplay tests show marines having difficulty holding their extractors and shooting skulks in the corridors. Could aliens be overpowered in my map?
Next update won't be for a while. I did the last two updates like a crazy person who doesn't need to eat, pee or sleep. Taking a break for a week maybe to do some drawing.
But an rt there does seam at it place :p
In fact it makes me think, balance the map considering balanced teams, once the game is running good, then the map will be up to shape.
Easier said than done, right now, it seems anything goes!
Does the marines still spawn at Cargo Bay?
In the gather, both teams spawned there, and it was very hard for marines to capture any resources from that location.
Processing was too hard to defend when aliens spawned in Storage.
And the walking distance to the next closest node in Engineering is painful for marines as well.
I think you should remove Cargo Bay as a marine spawn and make it an alien spawn instead, like my previous suggestion. :)
And then add a node location at Rotunda, I think it's a good place for a resnode.
Possible for marines to defend it from Engineering and Navigation, and possible for aliens to pressure it.
Cause marines need another resnode that is near both of the north spawns. They have trouble getting resources as it is now.
update 22/02/2012 - <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank"><b>version 5.0a</b></a>
- added resource node to Rotunda
- removed cargo bay as random spawn
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9540/ns2kleosa04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really loving the SS and vids of your map. I'd love to see this map become an official one so I can try it out as well.
I got 1 question tho: is it just me or are most the res nodes clustered in the bottom of the map?
It would be really hard for a team to spawn in the top tech point with the opposing team in the bottom corner left one.
It seems the walking distances to the res nodes are a bit off. Maybe i'm wrong and there is no problem but this is just my observation.
update 22/02/2012 - <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank"><b>version 5.0a</b></a>
- added resource node to Rotunda
- removed cargo bay as random spawn
<img src="http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4707/2012022200001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a much better solution than I came up with!
Now I will try to get some more games going on your map.
Really like the recent changes you've done, and I think it should play much better now.
I had a blast running around there during the aftermatch of a gather some months ago. Do note that you couldn't see an approaching onos running down the east corridor if you were standing in the back of engineering bay as the model render at a shorter distance then LoS provides. You can notice this if you try to fly of to freedom in Crevice too. I really like the open space and speed the skulks and onos could get there, but you would need to somehow break it up to not cause those issues. The same thing happened if you ran from generator towards navigation, but you have added some room there, so I don't know how it is now.
Keep up the good work! Really fun and interesting map!
I've uploaded Kleos onto NS2 Steam Workshop. Had problems with some files earlier, but all seems well now.
Thanks for letting me know, I'm not sure how I can fix that, any ideas?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->[edit: This has now been fixed]<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Unfortunately, no. Maybe try redoing the tech node?
<a href="http://imgur.com/PfIEJ" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/PfIEJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
#1: Here at east corridor the sight line is still too long. The room you added to break it up is a good start. What I would suggest is to shift the south exit to that new room to the circled area and possibly even consider shifting that room entirely south a touch. You may also consider adding a vent in that room so smaller alien lifeforms have an escape route as currently that corridor has the potential to be a deathtrap.
#2: The control room tech point is very very cramped. To fix this you could combine control room and server room into a single room. If you do it would probably be a good idea to shift the tech point north slightly as currently it has a long sight line down the corridor that goes to maintenance.
#3: This area is a little too complex. The resource node here is also tied to the Distribution tech point power node which is really unintuitive when looking at the minimap. I would put an RT near the distribution tech point and then either leave the RT in question where it is and tie it to observation power or shift it down into Access. If you do leave it where it is I would expand the room around it just a tad as currently attacking that node as an alien is walking into a claustrophobic death trap.
#4: Engineering suffers from the same problem as Control Room. It is very tight and hard to place structures (especially as a marine). A fix for this would be to just expand the room to the north (this will also have the good side effect of shortening the long hallway from Generator to Engineering.
Another one I forgot to mark on the image is in Maintenance. The pit there is a little easy to fall into as an Onos or Gorge. I would consider putting railings around it to discourage such things since there is no way to get out of that pit as those lifeforms.
Thanks for making this map it has been a lot of fun getting to play something different.
P.S. For the Refinery TP issue, try deleting the brushwork around the techpoint and remaking it. There could be a clipping issue. (I would also check the height of the ceiling as that could also cause problems of the hive not fitting properly there when trying to drop it)
Changelog:
update 10/06/2012 - version 268b
- Issue with Refinery tech point now fixed (Thanks to ScardyBob and Industry!)
- Distribution resource node moved to same room as tech point.
- Added more build space level with tech point in Refinery.
- Tidied up commander view.
Thanks Kull, appreciate the support and encouragement :)
Here are some screenshots from the latest update 274b, now available on Steam Workshop ...
<img src="http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5642/2012061200002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Changelog:
update 14/06/2012 - version 282b
- Remodelled Refinery Entrance so less cramped.
- Moved entrance to Cooling from Rotunda to the south.
<img src="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6796/2012061400002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4222/2012061400001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My first impressions after a round or two
There are some really neat designs like the light tunnel, and I like how there's height in this map and different levels. The gameplay really changes depending what life form you are or if you have a jet pack.
Engineering needs to be redesigned, it hugely favours aliens who can get in and out with little chance for marines to shoot them, and all the marine structures are conveniently piled together in a tight square, delicious :P