Build 193 Rushing

Raneman

So, here's how every game has gone so far for me:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->10 Pick a team.

20 Go build first extractor.

30 SURPRISE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM IN YOUR MAIN BASE!

40 If lose:
Your team has lost.

50 If win:
Wait 30 seconds.

60 GOTO 30<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Yes, this is Dog

have you tried reinstall? check firewall

ScardyBob

That's because you forgot a step :)
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->15 MINE SPAMMMMMMMMMMM<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Disco

I agree with him. Most games are like that now. I also agree with ScardyBob. Mines would be a nice counter.

JuCCi

All games where like that like 5 builds ago lol. Mines or learn to aim ( i cant thats why i try and comm. :)

swalk

This is due to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115904" target="_blank">random spawns</a>

internetexplorer

Have you tried guarding your base as well as the players who are building the extractor?

This is an FPS-RTS hybrid. As such, there is very little that can be taken for granted. I played quite a few games today and I held off lots of BIG SCARY RUSHES by not being a greedy idiot.

Raneman

<!--quoteo(post=1896734:date=Jan 22 2012, 06:01 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jan 22 2012, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you tried guarding your base as well as the players who are building the extractor?

This is an FPS-RTS hybrid. As such, there is very little that can be taken for granted. I played quite a few games today and I held off lots of BIG SCARY RUSHES by not being a greedy idiot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Generally in an RTS an early rush is taking a lot of chances.

Rush failed in most RTS: your early econ is destroyed, they come roll you
Rush failed in NS2: Respawn in 10 seconds. Do it again with no penalties.

Techercizer

Back when aliens had to eat power, rushes were a tactical choice and had consequences when they failed.

Krizzen

Hmmm, rushes... my friends and I used to Drone/Probe/SCV rush in SC... No one expected that, and it won many, MANY games! :) So, ruling it <b>completely </b>out as a strategy would be silly, in my opinion.

Aliens have the power of mobility and distraction, whereas marines have the power of defense and sustainability. One skulk can distract 1-3 marines without any particular gains for the marines. Thus, aliens are at a huge advantage when rushing while the Kham techs -- Aliens can 1) Get in there :: mobility and 2) Destroy at will :: distraction.

At the same time, Marines *CAN* rush, however a marine rush requires a more coherent team where there is never a single marine pushing. Clearly this also requires a good commander that realizes the implications of a full on offensive rush and swift resource tower acquisition, followed by support structures at hive locations (armory and phase).

Wilson

<!--quoteo(post=1896743:date=Jan 23 2012, 12:27 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jan 23 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back when aliens had to eat power, rushes were a tactical choice and had consequences when they failed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I hope you're not being serious...

Corpsey

<!--quoteo(post=1896740:date=Jan 22 2012, 07:18 PM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Jan 22 2012, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rush failed in NS2: Respawn in 10 seconds. Do it again with no penalties.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Untrue.. 1 may respawn and then it's no longer a team rush.. you mean to say 50 seconds, and coordination?

saltybp53

The solution would be to add incentive for staying near the base, and a punishment for rushing. Maybe like increased respawn time? Or no eggs for the first couple of minutes?

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1896755:date=Jan 23 2012, 01:44 AM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Jan 23 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The solution would be to add incentive for staying near the base, and a punishment for rushing. Maybe like increased respawn time? Or no eggs for the first couple of minutes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh that would turn the tables with marines rushing...

Yes, this is Dog

how about dmg or armor bonus near cc? that would help

sebu

<!--quoteo(post=1896747:date=Jan 22 2012, 07:45 PM:name=Krizzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krizzen @ Jan 22 2012, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmmm, rushes... my friends and I used to Drone/Probe/SCV rush in SC... No one expected that, and it won many, MANY games! :) So, ruling it <b>completely </b>out as a strategy would be silly, in my opinion.

Aliens have the power of mobility and distraction, whereas marines have the power of defense and sustainability. One skulk can distract 1-3 marines without any particular gains for the marines. Thus, aliens are at a huge advantage when rushing while the Kham techs -- Aliens can 1) Get in there :: mobility and 2) Destroy at will :: distraction.

At the same time, Marines *CAN* rush, however a marine rush requires a more coherent team where there is never a single marine pushing. Clearly this also requires a good commander that realizes the implications of a full on offensive rush and swift resource tower acquisition, followed by support structures at hive locations (armory and phase).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Woodleague SCV TRAINS FTW! (lol :D), but one solution to me could be ONE beacon trough command center. Adding one time usage beacon, which could be also nerfed to somepoint, that only half of the team spawns? or number # of players. It greatly could reduce the rush effectiveness, but not completely denying it. It would be an emergency cause thats implemented just to the CC. Use it one time its gone.

[edit] In the competitive play though, it could kill the rush. You could rush only in certain areas, and it would require PERFECT execution to pull it off. But thats the thing, when the rush fails and marines are crippled and they live just long enough to survive ( build another ip). The aliens should revive too! And the game could continue.

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1896819:date=Jan 23 2012, 01:30 PM:name=Yes, this is Dog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yes, this is Dog @ Jan 23 2012, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about dmg or armor bonus near cc? that would help<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not adressing the problem, that's just introducing more turtling near the CC.
The main problem is the distance between starting locations, caused by the current random spawns as I said earlier in the thread.
The other problem with random spawns, is vents.
It is simply not suitable for marines to have vents in the base, it just invites baserushes, both on publics and in competetive.
And aliens need vents near their starting locations to get around the map easily.
Also, the CC and Hives need their HP back(they got nerfed alot when UWE implemented random spawns).
Therefore it is simply not feasable to have both teams be able to spawn at the same location, or too close to each other.
This is a huge flaw in the gameplay at the moment, and should be adressed.