<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wrong. thats its downside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, that's what I said. There is no upside.
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->/trade off<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong again. What exactly are you trading? Being able to do anything plus vulnerability, versus not being able to do anything? Is that really a meaningful choice to you? Yeah, it's a huge choice for commanders! They could repair power nodes knowing they can be taken down again, OR they could just not repair power nodes because that way, they can't be taken down again!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"That would certainly be the case if no one understood the analogy. " wrong again. :) all that is needed for harimau to fail at communicating is just that. no conditional statement of majority of minority was put in place. you either are successful or not. even if you were to use the majority vote as your rule of thumb you have no way of gathering that info.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not a majority/minority situation, it's an all or nothing situation. If no one gets it, I have failed at communicating. If someone (even one other person) gets it, I have not failed at communicating (on a blanket scale); if others don't get it, that just means they've failed at comprehending (on a one-on-one level). Why are we even discussing this? So that you can attack the debater and not the argument?
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was so much useless semantic tennis that we need to get back on topic: power nodes are working as intended for the most part<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not, in fact, true. Power nodes were supposed to represent the power grid, which was supposed to represent marine territory. That was its intended use. In practice, power nodes are an <b>artificial weak point</b> that gives the alien team a potential advantage - the advantage of shutting down an entire base (including critical elements like the IP and RT) by attacking one otherwise unrelated structure that serves no other purpose.
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and oh yea... BETA. anymore constructive ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is the <b>reason</b> for this thread, and the <b>reason</b> for the posts I and others are making. Do you think that betas improve without feedback?
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We already have this. They're called resource towers, command stations, and phase gates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. And the good thing about these things is that they actually serve some other purpose. They collect resources, they facilitate upgrades, abilities and direction, and they allow fast transport, respectively. You can add any structure to the list, really, since every structure needs to be defended. The power node, however, is a cheap shot that lets you bypass the individual attacking of all those many <b>separate</b> structures to disable them <b>all</b> at once, including, for some inexplicable reason, <b>critical</b> elements like the resource tower and the infantry portal.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
i get it. i have failed communicating to you, i can see that now as your responses have me scratching my head like "how did he not get that?" but i'll let that one rest and just stick with this:
if its intended purpose was simply to "represent", it wouldnt really be any part of interactive gameplay, anymore than the timer at the top of the screen. while infestation would be gameplay driven.
so to move on: what is your solution? just remove power nodes?
Until you have expressed what exactly it is that I have misunderstood, then I have not misunderstood anything you have said. Benefit of the doubt, you see. To me, it just makes it seem like you want to back out of this while retaining your dignity - which is fine, I'm not here to "win".
The intended purpose was not simply to represent. What? Just... what? Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't know anymore. The "power grid" (an indefinite concept) was supposed to <b>represent</b> marine territory (as in, land), and the power nodes (which determine which rooms are powered) were to be the marking posts of that territory. Unfortunately, <b>it does not work that way in practice</b>. Instead, power nodes, as they are, are <b>artificial weak points</b>.
I've stated a solution. <u>Make power nodes less critical.</u> There are many ways to approach this, the <b>first</b> of which is to not power-down IPs and RTs.
Comments
Yes, that's what I said. There is no upside.
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->/trade off<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong again. What exactly are you trading? Being able to do anything plus vulnerability, versus not being able to do anything? Is that really a meaningful choice to you?
Yeah, it's a huge choice for commanders! They could repair power nodes knowing they can be taken down again, OR they could just not repair power nodes because that way, they can't be taken down again!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"That would certainly be the case if no one understood the analogy. " wrong again. :) all that is needed for harimau to fail at communicating is just that. no conditional statement of majority of minority was put in place. you either are successful or not. even if you were to use the majority vote as your rule of thumb you have no way of gathering that info.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a majority/minority situation, it's an all or nothing situation. If no one gets it, I have failed at communicating. If someone (even one other person) gets it, I have not failed at communicating (on a blanket scale); if others don't get it, that just means they've failed at comprehending (on a one-on-one level). Why are we even discussing this? So that you can attack the debater and not the argument?
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was so much useless semantic tennis that we need to get back on topic: power nodes are working as intended for the most part<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not, in fact, true.
Power nodes were supposed to represent the power grid, which was supposed to represent marine territory. That was its intended use.
In practice, power nodes are an <b>artificial weak point</b> that gives the alien team a potential advantage - the advantage of shutting down an entire base (including critical elements like the IP and RT) by attacking one otherwise unrelated structure that serves no other purpose.
<!--quoteo(post=1898766:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 2 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and oh yea... BETA. anymore constructive ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is the <b>reason</b> for this thread, and the <b>reason</b> for the posts I and others are making. Do you think that betas improve without feedback?
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We already have this. They're called resource towers, command stations, and phase gates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. And the good thing about these things is that they actually serve some other purpose. They collect resources, they facilitate upgrades, abilities and direction, and they allow fast transport, respectively. You can add any structure to the list, really, since every structure needs to be defended. The power node, however, is a cheap shot that lets you bypass the individual attacking of all those many <b>separate</b> structures to disable them <b>all</b> at once, including, for some inexplicable reason, <b>critical</b> elements like the resource tower and the infantry portal.
but i'll let that one rest and just stick with this:
if its intended purpose was simply to "represent", it wouldnt really be any part of interactive gameplay, anymore than the timer at the top of the screen. while infestation would be gameplay driven.
so to move on: what is your solution? just remove power nodes?
The intended purpose was not simply to represent. What? Just... what? Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't know anymore. The "power grid" (an indefinite concept) was supposed to <b>represent</b> marine territory (as in, land), and the power nodes (which determine which rooms are powered) were to be the marking posts of that territory. Unfortunately, <b>it does not work that way in practice</b>. Instead, power nodes, as they are, are <b>artificial weak points</b>.
I've stated a solution. <u>Make power nodes less critical.</u> There are many ways to approach this, the <b>first</b> of which is to not power-down IPs and RTs.