PG gameplay
NurEinMensch
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">I think it's not dynamic enough.</div>I feel that the current implementation of phase gates isn't quite as dynamic as it was in NS1. I attribute this to two causes.
1) Dynamic Infestation makes it harder for marines to move around the map without being noticed, limiting the number of places in which they can build a phase gate without a major push by the marine team.
2) The power requirement, needing an active power node to function effectively results in phase gates being built only in areas that are already under marine control.
Maybe this is intentional, but personally I find this too limiting. In NS1 a phase gate could operate as a lock pick, effectively opening new areas to the marines. In NS2 phase gates are only really viable "after the fact", when marines have already taken an area and want to consolidate their position.
I would like to see some of the more dynamic phase gate gameplay return. For this I propose that the power requirements for phase gates be loosened a bit, perhaps by allowing all phase gates to be powered as long as at least one of them is in a powered room. The power would be "phased through" to the other gates, so that they can operate.
This would give marines the ability to build phase gates in unexpected locations that aren't powered yet, allowing them to get a quick foot in the door. Aliens would need a little more emphasize on scouting and creative cyst placement to counter this.
1) Dynamic Infestation makes it harder for marines to move around the map without being noticed, limiting the number of places in which they can build a phase gate without a major push by the marine team.
2) The power requirement, needing an active power node to function effectively results in phase gates being built only in areas that are already under marine control.
Maybe this is intentional, but personally I find this too limiting. In NS1 a phase gate could operate as a lock pick, effectively opening new areas to the marines. In NS2 phase gates are only really viable "after the fact", when marines have already taken an area and want to consolidate their position.
I would like to see some of the more dynamic phase gate gameplay return. For this I propose that the power requirements for phase gates be loosened a bit, perhaps by allowing all phase gates to be powered as long as at least one of them is in a powered room. The power would be "phased through" to the other gates, so that they can operate.
This would give marines the ability to build phase gates in unexpected locations that aren't powered yet, allowing them to get a quick foot in the door. Aliens would need a little more emphasize on scouting and creative cyst placement to counter this.
Comments
idea: severely increased cost of power packs and its health, I mean they generate power from nothing that must be pretty expensive technology?
CC energy can be used to power a building
(cast it on a building, building activates for x seconds)
can be used to power a ninja gate so the marines can come in and power the actual power node
can also be used to power up obs for beacon if main powernode goes down
etc etc
I think a way doing for the "hidden pg tatic" should be implemented. In my eyes the setting up for such a pg should be about 30sec, which is depending on the view is not a much or a lot of time. It could be a abilty of the CC or a timed based power pack.
I also think about a minute should be pg be working then the power had to be refreshed, by either using a new powerpack, usind the power ability again or building power node. This is a lot of time, in which a hive can be easily destroyed if the aliens are careless.
The marines need to have a counter part of the infestation. Or the Infestation has to be much more usefull else it should be removed as well and that would be sad :(
Yeah, that would work but imho the comm should have to link the powerpack to a structure in order to power it.
Then you could give the powerpack a limited power supply, and every structure that gets linked drains x amount of power every second.
(and no - the powerpack should NOT give lights back into its room since its not connected to the powergrid)
i love it when a dev is on board with an idea that rocks
shameless injection of another idea:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116070&view=findpost&p=1898207" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1898207</a>
...phasing power to the phase gate.
Is that the current phase gates are a loop.
So that encourages turtling even more.
Some wisely placed ninja phase gates all over the map and all set.
I would be okay with the concept if phase gates were linked one to one.
I like the idea of the ninja phase gate. I just don't want it to be too powerful.
I liked the idea of a timer on the unpowered phase gate functioning with a timer to NEED power.
Once the timer expires the phase gate powers down.
If power is achieved it turns/stays on.
That way phase gates could be used in two scenarios.
a) Disposable, surprise attack.
b) To secure an area.
PS: Instead of making comments like ...the power grid sucks...try to make comments that will improve the power grid.
Starting any discussion with "This sucks"...is not starting a discussion at all.
You have power in room A, and also a PG there.
You have a PG in room B but no power. You can only travel from the room you have
power for the PG, and arrive in any PG. So you could travel from room A to B, but not go
back from B to A because the power is down at room B, hence not powering your travel.
That brings up another point... the PG loop. If only there could be a better way..."We're under attack, Flight Control, STAT!" *PHASE THRU* "Nope" *PHASE THRU* "Nope" *PHASE THRU* "Nope..." "Guys, phase in Flight Control down!" ......... :(
You have power in room A, and also a PG there.
You have a PG in room B but no power. You can only travel from the room you have
power for the PG, and arrive in any PG. So you could travel from room A to B, but not go
back from B to A because the power is down at room B, hence not powering your travel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had the exact same idea while reading this thread. You can only phase OUT of a room that has power but you can phase TO any room with a phase gate.
It's pretty nasty if half of your team ends up phasing to an unpowered room. If this is the final implementation, the PG system better work really smooth so that you don't accidentally end up in unpowered rooms or anything like that.
1) it forces marine comms to choose between being extremely aggressive with their cc energy use - nano-shielding every push or defense, or playing more defensively to save up for a sneak PG rush. This would be scoutable by aliens by communicating the frequency of nano-shielding, if aliens notice that the comm isn't on top of his nano-shield use, they can react accordingly and be on the lookout for a sneaky phase.
2) it allows comms to have a backup in case aliens do take out a critical power node - beam power to the obs and beacon everyone back. of course, this kind of defensive gameplay also comes at an opportunity cost; marine pushes won't be as effective and sneaky pg's will be delayed.
3) it promotes 2nd cc gameplay. one of my main beefs with the strategy aspect of this game is the asymmetric tech tiering; aliens are boxed in with their tech choices except through expansion. right now in pub play it's too easy for marines to turtle with res nodes and just tech up. marines should be incentivized to expand their territory beyond res node capping.
4) a marine comm can really speed up reinforcements getting to the front line by altering which phase gates lead to which, without having to recycle in-between phases. (with the limitation that a phase gate can only have 1 in and 1 outgoing destination)
It also has built-in tradeoffs. When you kill cysts to make space for buildings, you are actively damaging the aliens. Sure, they know where you are, but that's what they get for having deployed cysts there before you arrived. Power nodes serve largely the same role, but they're much fewer in number. If anything truly limits where marines can build, it's those.
<!--quoteo(post=1898562:date=Feb 1 2012, 06:54 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Feb 1 2012, 06:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) The power requirement, needing an active power node to function effectively results in phase gates being built only in areas that are already under marine control.
Maybe this is intentional, but personally I find this too limiting. In NS1 a phase gate could operate as a lock pick, effectively opening new areas to the marines. In NS2 phase gates are only really viable "after the fact", when marines have already taken an area and want to consolidate their position.
I would like to see some of the more dynamic phase gate gameplay return. For this I propose that the power requirements for phase gates be loosened a bit, perhaps by allowing all phase gates to be powered as long as at least one of them is in a powered room. The power would be "phased through" to the other gates, so that they can operate.
This would give marines the ability to build phase gates in unexpected locations that aren't powered yet, allowing them to get a quick foot in the door. Aliens would need a little more emphasize on scouting and creative cyst placement to counter this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can identify with the want for more phase gate locations. Even if portable power nodes were difficult to balance, they were an excellent way to create a huge amount of replayability/style in this game. I feel like that concept needs to be revisited with some serious effort.
The idea of making 1 powered phase gate power them all is incredibly silly, though. The way to counter it would not actually be 'scouting and creative cyst placement', because there would always be essentially one way to play against it: find the powered PG(s) and depower them. But wait! You can't because they're in the most strongly defended areas of the map, and the distant phase gates have no risk associated with them beyond their cost. It removes the spacial element that comes with "power node AND building" pairs, and makes attacking/defending phase gates less interesting. In the vast majority of games (where the commander is remotely competent with building placement), it would play out like it does now with the marines at a strict advantage for having fewer power nodes to babysit, and many more PG sites available which are potentially more powerful than the existing ones near power nodes.
Again, building in more places is good, but making the power system convoluted and giving special rules to 1 building is not the way to do it. Portable power nodes are the way to do it.
I wouldn't hold your breath for stuff like this.
It's probably best to look at the individual buildings (like this thread with phase gates) and really flesh out what the problems/successes of the current system are in that way.
1st
Ninja phase gates can be temporarily powered by a marines nano armor. A ninja marine can sacrfice his armor for powering a single device for a very short period.
Press use on a powered down device.
Lvl 0 Armor = 00 seconds of power.
Lvl 1 Armor = 30 seconds of power.
Lvl 2 Armor = 45 seconds of power.
Lvl 3 Armor = 60 seconds of power.
Even at lvl 1 armor thats enough time to get an organised platoon through a gate.
Or power a single sentry while waiting for reinforcements.
Or power an IP for 1 reinforcement when your teams lost power at spawn. Com get out!
Team mates can then weld their armor back up. Team work yay.
As it's tied in with armor upgrades it becomes a mid game tactic and is expensive. requiring an arms lab and an upgrade.
2nd
2 way (classic) and 1 way (ninja) phase gates.
The Phase gate can be entered from 2 sides. Color code each side when ninja gates are active.
Make 1 side blue (current phase animation) This will take you through the classic loop of areas with powered gates.
Make 2nd side red, entering the red side will take you to 1 way gates ( ninja gates ) This gate is not in the loop and is one way trip, till the areas power node is restored.
As ninja gates can only be powered for a maximum 30 - 60 seconds at a time and need a marine to power them muliple ninja gates will be rare. But ninja gates can be looped to each other if powered by 2 marines at 2 different gates.
It's probably best to look at the individual buildings (like this thread with phase gates) and really flesh out what the problems/successes of the current system are in that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there is any problem with phase gates at all. The OP's real complaint is with the power grid and infestation. Changing phase gates themselves to work around that somehow makes no sense. UWE has made countless systemic changes in the beta already, there's no better time to discuss this than the present.
I like this idea.
Perhaps phasing to a room without power should only be a one-way trip though?
<!--quoteo(post=1898756:date=Feb 1 2012, 07:22 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Feb 1 2012, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While discussing the Power Pack with a friend, we've come up with some ideas as well.
The first of which is similar to your idea, in that a Power Pack would get power from an active Power Node. However, these would not rely on a Transmitter, as they operate on their own as back-up power generators when Power Nodes go out.
The second idea is to make it a Command Station ability. Using 75 or so energy, you can place a timed Power Pack around structures (or even as a forward base starter). It would be an interesting energy competitor with Nano-Shield IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->