Isn't the shotgun too slow, really?
Wolpertinger
Join Date: 2011-12-24 Member: 138958Members
Join Date: 2011-12-24 Member: 138958Members
<div class="IPBDescription">And needs Alt Fire</div>The time between shots is too long and somehow I got the feeling that the delay between pressing the button and the firing itself is... big?
I want to know how others feel about this really frustrating use of the shotgun.
I want to know how others feel about this really frustrating use of the shotgun.
Comments
Why do you want rapid shots? Is it so that missing is less punishing? If so, there's a light machinegun available.
edit: misunderstood - the delay between clicking and firing is silly, and I'm not sure what causes it but it shouldn't exist
AND LAZORS!
It also needs a side barrel attachment that shoots headcrabs!
A bigger change I'd like to see is getting away from this idea of tiers and counters with these weapons and forms. It just gets really boring really fast. Any game I see that isn't one-sided usually goes:
All rifle Marines and All skulks->All shotgun marines and Mostly Fades and Skulks->All Jetpack Marines w/ Flamer or GL and All Frenzy Fades with a few Onos.
Player style and roles just change with tech and game duration. Its promotes a boring way to play the game. Instead I'd like to see the multiple different weapons and forms at different tiers and optional upgrade paths for individual players to choose.
An example: A Marine squad with a pointman with shotty, Support w/ advanced welder and mobile spawn point thing, marksman with some kind of semi-auto rifle or railgun and a rearguard with an AR or LMG.
Hopefully they go this route when they add more content.
For instance, a lot of people whine that the flamethrower is no good, but it makes fades easier to fight as part of a group. Same deal with the lerk and gorge (although they honestly feel quite weak in their combat support roles).
You mean this rock-paper-scissor system? Yeh, I do not like this, as well.
Keep the vertical FoV, but <b>please</b> add a FoV slider into the game, with a reasonable maximum, like something that would translate to around 90-100° horizontal on 5:4 for standard/marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1901545:date=Feb 10 2012, 02:17 AM:name=Clonesa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clonesa @ Feb 10 2012, 02:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see the firing speed go up ever so slightly and the damage (particularly at range) go down.
A bigger change I'd like to see is getting away from this idea of tiers and counters with these weapons and forms. It just gets really boring really fast. Any game I see that isn't one-sided usually goes:
All rifle Marines and All skulks->All shotgun marines and Mostly Fades and Skulks->All Jetpack Marines w/ Flamer or GL and All Frenzy Fades with a few Onos.
Player style and roles just change with tech and game duration. Its promotes a boring way to play the game. Instead I'd like to see the multiple different weapons and forms at different tiers and optional upgrade paths for individual players to choose.
An example: A Marine squad with a pointman with shotty, Support w/ advanced welder and mobile spawn point thing, marksman with some kind of semi-auto rifle or railgun and a rearguard with an AR or LMG.
Hopefully they go this route when they add more content.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're onto something here. Sid Meier famously said that games are a series of interesting choices.
NS2 is more fun when the commanders and players are presented with interesting choices.
Do I get an Observatory or a Robotics Factory? That is an interesting choice. Do I go Fade or Onos? That is an interesting choice.
Presently, the Marines lack these sets of choices. The Shotgun is an obvious early game upgrade for the Marine because it crushes skulks and then does moderately well against the Aliens first major upgrade, the Fade. As the game starts to progress, there is some thinking that has to go into whether to continue using the Shotgun or get the Grenade Launcher. The Grenade Launcher is good against structures, but the Shotgun is as well. The Flamethrower feels more like a spam tool than a real weapon... there's not much fun to be had with it long-term because it's so easy to use. I'm afraid that the Exo-suit will become a similar non-choice. Every Marine will want to use the Exo-suit because it will be an obvious upgrade. I think the Marines need another early game weapon to compete with the shotgun and another late game weapon that competes with the Exo-suit. Perhaps the Rifle can have additional upgrades that make it competitive throughout the game.
I hope the Welder replaces the Pistol in your inventory. There should be some sacrifice for getting an upgrade over the Builder, otherwise everyone will want a Welder.
maybe but don't forget the attachment for the mine layer.
As for the shotgun's fire rate which is a different thing entirely, it is pretty okay. It's <b>beastly</b> if you can get the timing down for the quickfire. I'll leave you to figure out what that means.
NS2 is more fun when the commanders and players are presented with interesting choices.
Do I get an Observatory or a Robotics Factory? That is an interesting choice. Do I go Fade or Onos? That is an interesting choice.
Presently, the Marines lack these sets of choices. The Shotgun is an obvious early game upgrade for the Marine because it crushes skulks and then does moderately well against the Aliens first major upgrade, the Fade. As the game starts to progress, there is some thinking that has to go into whether to continue using the Shotgun or get the Grenade Launcher. The Grenade Launcher is good against structures, but the Shotgun is as well. The Flamethrower feels more like a spam tool than a real weapon... there's not much fun to be had with it long-term because it's so easy to use. I'm afraid that the Exo-suit will become a similar non-choice. Every Marine will want to use the Exo-suit because it will be an obvious upgrade. I think the Marines need another early game weapon to compete with the shotgun and another late game weapon that competes with the Exo-suit. Perhaps the Rifle can have additional upgrades that make it competitive throughout the game.
I hope the Welder replaces the Pistol in your inventory. There should be some sacrifice for getting an upgrade over the Builder, otherwise everyone will want a Welder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theres more to it than that tho, in ns1 there was no choice between guns and it worked just fine.
I always found the only choices you have is to play it as it goes.
Theres always things like relocation, denial of territory, plain rushing and ninja phasing. Thats plenty of choice to me, adding 4 or 5 guns to every tier is just going to make ###### complex and annoying because everyone on the team will want something different.
I dunno if im alone on this but i dont think ns2 will ever have the same tight strategic feel ns1 had.
Ns1 was more about the marines trying to deny territory rather than control it and they didnt necessarily need to tech to win unless aliens were advancing, which made the balance of 2 sides more exciting.
Where as aliens depended on expanding to win and it was the only way to go.
Marines needed time, aliens needed territory.
Ns2 however its as if both teams are trying to gain territory for both the same reasons as each other, they both need the same things.
And with the 5 bases in each map? both teams end up getting their expansions usually and then its just a fight for 3rd one.
I suppose when you look at the big picture it results in a longer game but that thrill of never knowing whats going to happen just doesnt exist.
Its hard to explain, and its only beta still so ill stay open minded about it. I guess im just too curious to see how unw will make it happen.
(oh and to stay on topic i think the shotgun is fine, i prefer slow firing shotguns it feels more beefy when you land that hit, especially on a fade and you hear him snarl from the damage he took)
As for the shotgun's fire rate which is a different thing entirely, it is pretty okay. It's <b>beastly</b> if you can get the timing down for the quickfire. I'll leave you to figure out what that means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So very true.
As for the shotgun's fire rate which is a different thing entirely, it is pretty okay. It's <b>beastly</b> if you can get the timing down for the quickfire. I'll leave you to figure out what that means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Feel its the worst with the GL. I can never tell when and where that thing will end up in a frenzied battle.
With a shotgun I chew through (newb) skulks. I agree it's had to hit good skulks with it though, simply because there's still a lot of fps lag and input lag which will hopefully be fixed in the future... Or I simply buy a new rig, hehe :)
or the speed of shooting itself.
If it is an animation bug I haven't noticed.
and as far as having the shotgun fire faster...it's fine as it is
And also the delay between pressing the mouse button and and shotgun-shot itself is annoying. It is subtle, maybe, but it is there.
And yes, there is definitly the same problem with the Grenade Launcher. (Whera are all the delays coming from?)