Is there code inplace to stop aimbots?

Fragmagnet

<div class="IPBDescription">This is a crucial question.</div>If there is no current code in place to stop an aimbot derived from lua........ badnews.


I just realized how easy it would be to create an aimbot out of lua for ns2
all it would basically have to do is track the origin of an enemy player model.
and then adjust your view.

internetexplorer

I'll add that finding a clever way to discourage aimbotting would go a long way with this game. NS1 eventually reached a point where someone was botting on marines in every public server.

Fragmagnet

right now I think it might be possible to edit the player_client.lua to track an enemy when your character crouches.

this is basically how easy it is
super simple ultra incorrect lua go

function aimbot
if player.iscrouched then
-----if player.islookingattarget then
-----track.currenttarget
else
track.nearesttarget
end

RockyMarc

Yeah there's always this threat when a game is left open for so much modding.
It amazes me (if there is any hackers) that anyone would cheat in a beta version of a game :|

ScardyBob

Eventually, NS2 will need an equivalent to the sv_pure command in Source. Right now, its basically a gentlemen's agreement not to hack.

RockyMarc

Hmm is NS2 linked to your steam account in anyway in game? Like TF2 you have your SteamID number?
Reason I ask is because if people are getting banned, how can we stop them from playing on other servers too?

Fragmagnet

I think so, yes.

It's ON steam obviously.

endar

Servers running overmind have access to steam ID's. I think even servers not running overmind will at least log the IP when a player joins, overmind just makes it easier, (and possible to ban).

Laosh'Ra

i've already seen two people being ridicolously good and one of them was shooting a wall with an alien behind it (as i saw in spec mode). still, you have to be very cautious accusing people of such things.
i remember some point in the pivotal-tracker progress mentioning something like "make sure clients have the same files" or something. i hope this adresses this issue.
if not: please fix. the mere possibility of cheating hurts the trust among community members.

player

Eventually Spark should govern the scripts using hash-checks, and Steam should govern Spark using VAC.

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1903404:date=Feb 15 2012, 07:33 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 15 2012, 07:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eventually Spark should govern the scripts using hash-checks, and Steam should govern Spark using VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed. Hackers need to be banned in VAC to make a good deterrent.

If lua has simple commands like .track, I cannot see how it would be hard to detect loaded luas and prevent use of a few specific commends.

Floodinator

<!--quoteo(post=1903287:date=Feb 15 2012, 05:44 AM:name=Fragmagnet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fragmagnet @ Feb 15 2012, 05:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there is no current code in place to stop an aimbot derived from lua........ badnews.


I just realized how easy it would be to create an aimbot out of lua for ns2
all it would basically have to do is track the origin of an enemy player model.
and then adjust your view.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just google LUA Aimbot and got hundreds of results. Maybe try the one for CSS. Or do you need a WH, just download it.

And I am sure some players already wrote theyr own and use it, because the comu grows and read alot of CoD ideas laetly. but how poor must a person be to cheat in a beta? It is like getting a baby pregnant...

Hope they implement some checking routines or get VAC2 (better than nothing) online.

player

Lua has nothing to do with how the game is written, you can't just download a Lua-script from another game and intend to use in NS2, it'll simply not work. Spark will need to validate scripts, and to prevent tampering with Spark's DLLs, VAC will have to sit on top of that (so VAC in fact shouldn't concern itself with the NS2 Lua-scripts, just with the validation-mechanism that is Spark).

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1903296:date=Feb 15 2012, 06:07 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Feb 15 2012, 06:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll add that finding a clever way to discourage aimbotting would go a long way with this game. NS1 eventually reached a point where someone was botting on marines in every public server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bull######.

Crispy

You can't stop people from hacking your game. If EA, with all their monies, can't stop people in Battlefield 3, their flagship game, from <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAOvNRA3G7c" target="_blank">wallhacking and killing their own dudes</a>, then UWE certainly doesn't have the resources to do so. (Interestingly, DICE are actually recruiting for Cheat-Prevention Programmers.)

The best you can do is provide good tools for admins to shut down cheaters fast. This is a combination of in-game and remote control admin commands and a global cheat prevention system, such as VAC.

Fragmagnet

A few of you seem to have taken this out of context.


I"m not talking about third party hacks.

I'm talking about the fact that you can edit the lua files that come with NS2 to make an aimbot.
easily

I'm asking the devs if they have any simple anticheat like preventing players from tracking objects.

player

It's a non-issue, it'll be solved when clients no longer have carte-blanche playing on servers using custom-scripts. And of course by solved, I mean severely mitigated. What else is there to say, it's a beta (_ALPHA_) and it'll be a little while longer before those checks are in place.

Better admin-tools are also on the way according to a very reliable source.

autograder

<!--quoteo(post=1903574:date=Feb 15 2012, 07:07 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 15 2012, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...

Better admin-tools are also on the way according to a very reliable source.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He lies.
There are no admin tools available from UWE.
There are no admin tools available from the community.
And player DEFINITELY does not have an established admin mod.


Even if player <i>did </i>have an established admin mod, there is no way he is soon to release big changes.
Not. Gunna. Happen.

Clonesa

<!--quoteo(post=1903562:date=Feb 15 2012, 06:45 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Feb 15 2012, 06:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't stop people from hacking your game. If EA, with all their monies, can't stop people in Battlefield 3, their flagship game, from <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAOvNRA3G7c" target="_blank">wallhacking and killing their own dudes</a>, then UWE certainly doesn't have the resources to do so. (Interestingly, DICE are actually recruiting for Cheat-Prevention Programmers.)

The best you can do is provide good tools for admins to shut down cheaters fast. This is a combination of in-game and remote control admin commands and a global cheat prevention system, such as VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its still important to make it as difficult as possible. Just because perfect justice isn't possible doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

RockyMarc

Yes I agree, got to make it as hard as possible, and hopefully the devs can download these aimbots too and see how they work and how they can change their code to block these programs.

sumguy720

While I agree that cheating (aimbotting etc) is a really important issue, something that deserves a solution, I get nervous when the devs start putting in anti-cheat countermeasures because sometimes those can cause issues and make legit players unable to play the game.

For example, sometimes I can't play Garry'sMod in steam because of VAC messing up. It makes me really frustrated when that happens, and it makes me hate the company.

It would be cool if there was a way to give players incentive to not cheat. Or to make the world full of reasonable and/or nice people.

Floodinator

I would like to see that UWE implements something like punkbuster does.
Punkbuster takes, beside blocking cheats and cvars, screenshots from the players screen now and then, and saves those screenshots in a file on the hosting server.
Admins then can manually check the screenshots for cheats. On the screenshots are also informations like time taken, ip, id, map, server, username and if its a valid screenshot.
IMO this is one of the best anticheatsystems (I mean the screenshots) on the market, because it makes it impossible to draw informations on the huf and because you never know when it dies a screenshot, you may even be catched browsing cheatingsites or pr0n.

And you don't even need to edit files to cheat. Just write r_mode unlit and enjoy your no fog, no shadows and max brightness cheat.

Fragmagnet

I should probably have a dev lock this thread. Since only a few of you even understood its purpose.

I'm not talking about thirdparty anticheats or even third party cheats

I"m talking about the lua files within NS2 ONLY.

Floodinator

Yes they will implement this checking. It was answered some posts above.

Fragmagnet

<!--quoteo(post=1903629:date=Feb 15 2012, 09:09 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 15 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903629"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes they will implement this checking. It was answered some posts above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes I know. But now everyone's just like PUNKBUSTER AAAHHHHHVACCCCCCCCC EA DICE PURPLE
..... lol

Floodinator

<!--quoteo(post=1903633:date=Feb 16 2012, 03:15 AM:name=Fragmagnet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fragmagnet @ Feb 16 2012, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes I know. But now everyone's just like PUNKBUSTER AAAHHHHHVACCCCCCCCC EA DICE PURPLE
..... lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Normal here :-D. Strange that Konata didn't show up.

player

Maybe he's still trying to crawl from under the ban-hammer. But we do still need VAC, as script-hashchecking will be of no help if people can ###### with the engine-DLLs themselfs.

SkymanderX

best way to prevent bots is not discuss or recognize them, jus sayin

Spritz2k11

<!--quoteo(post=1903633:date=Feb 16 2012, 03:15 AM:name=Fragmagnet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fragmagnet @ Feb 16 2012, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1903633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes I know. But now everyone's just like PUNKBUSTER AAAHHHHHVACCCCCCCCC EA DICE PURPLE
..... lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

A discussion in a thread usually progresses, why else would you start a discussion?

Rokiyo

This existence of this topic saddens me.

I do not mean to downplay the importance of the issue, but raising public awareness may end up forcing the devs to act sooner rather than later... Which would likely require Max's already-scarce time... Which would prevent him on working on the million other things we're collectively demanding of him.

While there is no undo option on this topic, in future I would recommend emailing UWE directly about potential exploits and other security vulnerabilities.

Zaggy

Eh, what idiot starts cheating in a beta he payed for?
He will be out quicker than he got in with this community.
Non issue at this point, I'm sure it's on UWE's list.
Closing thread.