Marine vs Marine [Beta]

McGlaspie

[center][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/eju0U86.jpg[/IMG][/center]

[b][size=4]Overview[/size][/b]

MvM is rather self explanatory but there are enough changes, due to contextual differences from NS2, that the summation results in a different feel. Quite a few aspects have changed, such as building placement. In most cases, you cannot use the same spots to drop buildings in MvM that you can in vanilla NS2. Line of sight is now [b]very[/b] important. Sentries were upgraded to work in the MvM context and are worth purchasing, and they recieve damage upgrades from weapons level research. Another very big change is Med and Ammo packs. Regardless of which team's commander drops them, both sides can pick them up. So, commanders watch out! You might resupply the enemy team inadvertently. Having fallback positions is really useful when resupplying via pack drops. Weapons dropped by commanders or players cannot be picked up by the opposing team. This was done to solve a turtling issue were the attacking team effectively resupplied the defending team.



All of the overall aspects of NS2 still apply. The teams still need to gather resources, conduct research, and destroy the opposing team's command structure(s). Both team's structures still require power to function. Although all power nodes start socketed and built. Neither team owns any power nodes. This means they are effectively neutral and can, in effect, suffer from friendly fire. So, be careful with grenades and/or ARCs when attacking an area where your team has structures.



In order for the multi-skins system to work, a number of new shaders needed to be made. So, the first time you load MvM it will take longer than usual due to shaders needing to be compiled.



Good luck and have fun! I'd very much like to hear your feedback on MvM (in a constructive way).



[b][size=5]Workshop Mod ID: 7957667[/size][/b]



[b]Credits:[/b]

McGlaspie - Programming / Minor graphics and UI

Ulmont - New team colored textures for both marine teams

Kouji-San - Black marine weapon skins





Workshop Page: [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=127235687]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=127235687[/url]






[b][size=4]Change Log - Beta 1[/size][/b]
[spoiler title="Change Log"]
[b]General[/b]

- Weapons dropped now have team ownership, so opposing sides cannot use each other's weapons

- Anything that is on fire now recieves reduced effectiveness of welding while burning by 50%

- ARCs now limited to 3 Per captured Tech Point (has CS built on it)

- Armor & Weapon damage upgrade levels and amounts Unchanged (excluding Exo armor)

- Resources tick every 7 seconds (was 6 seconds)

- Spawning marines have a 3 second Nano-shield (helps fight ranged spawn camping)

- Multi-Skin support added for models (see TeamColorSkinMixin.lua)

-- Each team (Blue & Gold) is colorized based on original NS2 color schemes

-- UI reskinned for Gold Team (Team 2)

-- Most effects tweaked to match new color scheme for Team 2 (Gold Team)





[b]Units[/b]

- Exo now gets 100 additional armor per upgrade level (max 650)

- ARC Health/Armor tweaked

-- ARC Undeployed: 1200HP / 250AR (was 2000HP / 500AR)

-- ARC Deployed: 1200HP / 0AR (was 2000HP / 0AR)

- ARC damage reduced to 450 per shot (was 900)

- Exo only recieves 5% damage from burning (on fire), but welding efficiency reduction still applies

- Sentry damage increased to 8 per bullet (was 5)

- Sentry maximum range increased to 40m (was 20m)

- Sentry rate of turn increased 10% (max yaw per second)

- Mine damage increased to 150





[b]Movement[/b]

- Marines no longer have slow down when jumping

- Backpedel speed only reduced by 10%

- Sprinting now starts slower and takes 3 seconds to reach maximum speed

- Maximum sprint speed increased to 130

- Time delay from attacking to sprint reduced to 0.1 seconds (was 0.2)

- Jet Pack acceleration (from pressing jump key) increased

- Jet Pack vertical thrust slightly increased

- Jet Pack maximum speed slightly increased

- Jet Pack horizontal movement tweaked to allow faster change in directions





[b]Buildings[/b]

- All buildings have had their HP/AR adjusted to work in the MvM context

-- Armory: 1400HP / 250 AR - (was 1800HP / 300AR)

-- Advanced Armory: 1900HP / 350AR - (was 3000HP / 500AR)

-- Command Station: 2700HP / 1250AR - (was 3000HP / 1500AR)

-- Observatory: 1400HP / 150AR - (was 1700HP / 0AR)

-- Phase Gate: 2000HP / 400AR - (was 2700HP / 450AR)

-- Robotics Factory: 2200HP / 700AR - (was 2800HP / 1000AR)

-- ARC Robotics Factory: 2400HP / 900AR (was 2800HP / 1000AR)

-- Prototype Lab: 2800HP / 250AR - (was 3200HP / 400AR)

-- Infantry Portal: 2000HP / 200AR - (was 2250HP / 125AR)

-- Arms Lab: 2000HP / 300AR - (was 2200HP / 225AR)

-- Sentry Battery: 600HP / 100AR - (was 600HP / 200AR)

-- Sentry: 550HP / 80AR - (was 500HP / 100AR)

-- Extractor: 2000HP / 300AR - (was 3500HP / 500AR)

-- Mines: 50HP / 10AR - (was 80HP / 10AR)

-- Power Nodes: 1400HP / 650AR - (was 2000HP / 1000AR)

- Many building had their build times adjusted

-- Prototype Lab build time increased to 25 seconds (was 20)

-- Arms Lab build time increased to 20 seconds (was 17)

-- Extractors build time increased to 18 seconds (was 12)

-- Command Station build time increased to 20 seconds (was 15)

-- Sentry Battery build time increased to 7 seconds (was 5)

-- Robotics Factory build time increased to 16 seconds (was 13)

-- ARC build time increased to 16 seconds (was 10)

-- Sentry build time increased to 4.5 seconds (was 3)





[b]Weapons[/b]

- Flamethrower cost reduced to 20 (was 25)

- Flamethrower damage decreased to 5.5 per "tick" (was 7.5)

- Flame damage stack rate reduced to 35% per "tick"

- Flame maximum stacks (how many dots) reduced to 16 (was 20)

- Flamethrower clip size increased to 35 (was 30)

- Grenade Launcher damage radius (explosion radius) reduced to 6 (was 8)

- Welders are now free once researched and all marines spawn with them equipped

- ARCs will now trigger Mines when (not attack, from movement)

- Mines arm in 3 seconds (was 4)

- Mine explosion radius reduced to 3.5m (was 4)

- Shotgun max range increase to 35 (was 30)

- Shotgun spread at range significantly increased, still effective close range (6m or less)

- Exo mini-gun damage, per bullet, reduced to 20 (was 25)

- Mini-gun clip size reduced to 225 (was 250)

- Pistol damage increased to 28 (was 25)

- Rifle damage reduced to 9 per bullet (was 10)

- Rifle spread now 4 degrees, was 3 degrees

- Rifle Melee damage increased to 35 (was 20)

- Welder now does 35 damage (was 30)





[b]Research[/b]

- Welder research time increased to 20 seconds (was 15)

- Welder research cost increased to 15 (was 10)

- Phase Tech now 50 second research time (was 45)



[/spoiler]

[b]Beta 1 - Hotfix Changes[/b]
[spoiler]
Fixed Flamethrower absurd damage multiplier being applied when it shouldn't have

Reduced Flamethrower cost to 20 (was 25)

Reduced Flamethrower Research to 20 (was 25)

Reverted all Flamethrower damage values to vanilla NS2 values (burning, flame stacking, etc)

Increased Grenade Launcher cost to 25 and Grenade Launcher research to 25

Decreased Grenade Launcher explosion radius to 4 (was 6)

Decreased Grenade Launcher explosive damage to 110 (was 130)

Increased Grenade lifetime (before non-impact detonation) to 3 seconds (was 2)

Decreased pistol damage to 26 (was 28)

Increased Rifle damage to 10 (was 9)

Decreased Mine Research cost to 10 (was 15)

Decreased Mines cost to 10 (was 15)

Increased Mine damage radius to 4 (was 3)

Decreased Shotgun spread at range (tighter spread)

Increased Shotgun damage per pellet to 18 (was 17)

Increased Exo armor per upgrade to 150 (was 100, max Level 3 armor now 800)

Increased Exo Mini-gun bullet damage to 25 (was 20)

[/spoiler]

HadesDK

Nice :)

endar

Sounds good, i'd love to run this, would make a fresh change for NS2.

McGlaspie

Updated the mod tracker to show all of the changes done for each release (<a href="http://www.team156.com/mcglaspie/mvm/tracker/index.php?changes" target="_blank">Change Log</a>). For those that are interested. Once I finish all the important stuff on the progress page then I'll get this out the door. I'm sure all the numbers will have to get changed again :)

twiliteblue

I wonder how the Power system works in MvM? Do both teams "share" a Power Node? Do all structures in the room shut down when the PN is destroyed? How are stand-offs at choke points resolved? I'd love to try this mod to find out!

Soul_Rider

Can't wait to have a play of this :)

McGlaspie

<!--quoteo(post=1907150:date=Feb 26 2012, 09:43 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Feb 26 2012, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder how the Power system works in MvM? Do both teams "share" a Power Node? Do all structures in the room shut down when the PN is destroyed? How are stand-offs at choke points resolved? I'd love to try this mod to find out!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well, I hate to disappoint you twilite, but right now the power nodes have a very simple behavior. To remove some problems that have cropped up I'm setting it so neither team ever owns them. This means anyone can destroy them, so friendly fire is a concern. I am planning a Power Grid system that should work very similarly to how UWE talked about doing it just over a year ago, but I'm going to add a few twists. For now, simplistic is how I would describe it. This will change in time. Once I'e done all the required prototyping for the new Grid, I'll post some details about it.

ScardyBob

Powernodes work like this:
1. All powernodes except the starting one for each base start socketed and destroyed.
2. Powered rooms power both teams structures
3. Either team can build and destroy any power node

McGlaspie

Heh, thanks Bob. That was a better explanation than my wordy and cryptic answer.

I'm beginning to second guess how I'm initially setting nodes to be destroyed. With the welders in game, team's have to either build Robo -> MAC, or Armory -> Welder just to expand out of their base. I'm going to sort this out before release.

ScardyBob

<!--quoteo(post=1907360:date=Feb 26 2012, 11:04 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 26 2012, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh, thanks Bob. That was a better explanation than my wordy and cryptic answer.

I'm beginning to second guess how I'm initially setting nodes to be destroyed. With the welders in game, team's have to either build Robo -> MAC, or Armory -> Welder just to expand out of their base. I'm going to sort this out before release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It should be fine because you can still build destroyed power nodes without the welder. You just need the welder to repair damaged powernodes.

Price

Can you use the black armor for team 2 and the green for team 1?
also the buildings?
example:
<img src="http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/229/armorydef.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4141/16909498.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(its a diffrent model, not just the same modelfile!)
the only problem is, if uwe allow releasing the models with textures.


p.s. i also would like if you create a file in your mod folder called e.g. "run.cmd"
in that put:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->@ECHO OFF
cd..
ns2.exe -game mvm
exit<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

gamester_5

The way McG has it set is friendly is a Blue "O". Enemy is indicated by Red ")(" or something like that. It is very simple to figure out who and what is friendly and who is foe.

Soul_Rider

<!--quoteo(post=1907098:date=Feb 26 2012, 09:34 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 26 2012, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#EEB929--><span style="color:#EEB929"><!--/coloro--><i>Note: Normal NS2 servers will still be listed when you try to join a game. So, be sure you're joining the right ones. If you try to join a server not running the mod you will get a "Client and server differ" error</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

<b>To Server Administrators:</b>
If you are going to run this mod from your server, please add "MvM" to the end of the server's name.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have the Proving Grounds servers online, named Proving Grounds Mod v121, the game shows as pg in the game column, and still almost everyone connecting to the game doesn't have the files. Seems a large percentage of the general users don't check these forums :P

McGlaspie

<!--quoteo(post=1907543:date=Feb 27 2012, 01:16 PM:name=gamester_5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gamester_5 @ Feb 27 2012, 01:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way McG has it set is friendly is a Blue "O". Enemy is indicated by Red ")(" or something like that. It is very simple to figure out who and what is friendly and who is foe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Here is an example screenshot of what gamester is referring to:
<img src="http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss18/McGlaspie/2012-02-27_00001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


<!--quoteo(post=1907427:date=Feb 27 2012, 05:22 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Feb 27 2012, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you use the black armor for team 2 and the green for team 1?
also the buildings?
example:
(its a diffrent model, not just the same modelfile!)
the only problem is, if uwe allow releasing the models with textures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->While on the surface your suggestion seems like the simplest approach, there are some problems with it. I will not code anything or make and graphics changes that grants users the SE armor that do not own it. This would in effect create a bypass for people and not require an SE key be on their Steam account.

Also, to do what you're describing would in fact require a model file for Team 2 for players and structures to be distributed with the mod. I've already checked and this would increase the mod's size to about 470MB. All of the textures for a model are defined via the .material file. There is currently no way to dictate which material file is used for which model. So, for players as an example, you would need a new model for the player and its associated material file plus the new diffuse texture. So, do this across all of the models for the Marines and structures makes the download size get very big, very quickly. Oh, just fyi, I'm not doing the typical Blue vs Red. It's actually using the existing team coloring scheme in vanilla NS2, so: Blue vs Yellow (or Gold of sorts). Here are the web safe team colors: Blue - <!--coloro:#4DB1FF--><span style="color:#4DB1FF"><!--/coloro-->#4DB1FF<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and Yellow/Gold - <!--coloro:#FFCA3A--><span style="color:#FFCA3A"><!--/coloro-->#FFCA3A<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Price

<!--quoteo(post=1907667:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=116645&view=findpost&p=1907667" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1907667</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember seeing this somewhere in the forums or youtube, its a good placeholder but i would not like it ingame if i see a marine with an X and a O i am sure people can forget which side they on and die.
I mean there is a reason why in every game teams have diffrent skins not just a icon over the head or inside the body.
So i see no problem using diffrent skins, except for the copyright of releasing the model of uwe.

<!--quoteo(post=1907667:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While on the surface your suggestion seems like the simplest approach, there are some problems with it. I will not code anything or make and graphics changes that grants users the SE armor that do not own it. This would in effect create a bypass for people and not require an SE key be on their Steam account.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, but whats the problem about a "new" skin for the default marine?


<!--quoteo(post=1907667:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, to do what you're describing would in fact require a model file for Team 2 for players and structures to be distributed with the mod. I've already checked and this would increase the mod's size to about 470MB.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So?
And how you get the number of 470mb?
If i take a look to all the models and textures of marines its 131 MB (137.756.672 Bytes) not 470 MB so it would be 262 MB.

<!--quoteo(post=1907667:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of the textures for a model are defined via the .material file. There is currently no way to dictate which material file is used for which model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, you have no idea what you are talking about, there is a way for creating a modelclone...a very simple way of course.

<!--quoteo(post=1907667:date=Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Feb 28 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, for players as an example, you would need a new model for the player and its associated material file plus the new diffuse texture. So, do this across all of the models for the Marines and structures makes the download size get very big, very quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who cares how big a mod is? If people like a mod. they will download a bit more...
I think its way better to have diffrent team colors then just a tiny icon which is hard to see.
But hey, i just want help...

McGlaspie

<!--quoteo(post=1908658:date=Mar 1 2012, 05:58 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 1 2012, 05:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See, you have no idea what you are talking about, there is a way for creating a modelclone...a very simple way of course.
...
But hey, i just want help...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming that last statement is true, you've got a damned odd way of doing so...

ScardyBob

My view is that the intent to keep the mod client download small is to make it so people can just join and quickly download the mod directly from the vanilla NS2 server list (once direct mod server downloads are included).

McGlaspie

You nailed it exactly ScardyBob ;)

gamester_5

<!--quoteo(post=1908658:date=Mar 1 2012, 02:58 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 1 2012, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See, you have no idea what you are talking about, there is a way for creating a modelclone...a very simple way of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If you are so good at doing it come up with a solution and post it, dont just flame him. Hell, he has done a great job with this and it is no easy task. Take hours of work. But I am sure you knew that already.

Cant wait to see it, looks like you have it pretty much dialed in.

McGlaspie

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116645&view=findpost&p=1907098" target="_blank">Beta 1 released</a>.

This will not be perfect, in fact, probably far from it. This is based on NS2 B199. I'm looking forward to any and all constructive criticism! Enjoy

endar

Nice work on releasing a playable mod!

What map are you playtesting this on (and naturally, balancing it for)?

I understand you might aim to get it equal across all maps, but to expect balance in a mod such as this in ever changing conditions is unreasonable.

twiliteblue

I had some fun testing with endar.

Camping/ambushing is rather difficult with the red triangle marking enemies the second they show up in sight. Would a short delay on the enemy marker solve that?

Mines appear to be mostly useless in MvM mode. Perhaps they're better off working as Satchel Charges for blowing up buildings or ARCs.

Looking forward to the next version! Great work, McGlaspie!

RTV

<strike>Hell yes, we need more stupid modifications like this, marines versus marines, yippie kay yay this is so creative...<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> N O T <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></strike>

Herp derp.


<i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->If you don't like something others like, shut up and move along. 1st warning. --Zaggy<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i>

swalk

This is looking very nice!
The same goes to you, like all the other modders and mappers, you're welcome to use our map/mod database to host your files.
I already gave ScardyBob access to the database, if more of you wan't access just sign up and tell me :)
You add a map/mod like this:
Go to "Admin" in the top left, press "Downloads", press the "Maps" button to add a map, and the "Mods" button to add a mod.
Link is in my signature.

RTV

<strike>How can this looks nice?
It is very unimaginative, it sounds boring, it looks boring.
You could call it marines vs. themselves.</strike>

Herp derp.

<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>If you don't like something others like, shut up and move along. 1st warning. --Zaggy</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

rhombus

<!--quoteo(post=1909212:date=Mar 2 2012, 09:27 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Mar 2 2012, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell yes, we need more stupid modifications like this, marines versus marines, yippie kay yay this is so creative...<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> N O T <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1909214:date=Mar 2 2012, 09:36 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Mar 2 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909214"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can this looks nice?
It is very unimaginative, it sounds boring, it looks boring.
You could call it marines vs. themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Instead of being derps how about some suggestions instead of the usually unhelpful comments of 'this mod blows'.

I'm currently working in modifications to the existing models. The code that was released right now is so that it's easy to test and change values on instead of having people download a ton of models the first go. If McG allows I can post updates to those changes I'll be doing sometime this weekend.

Kouji_San

Heh also if ya don't like this idea, WTF are you doing posting none sense in here. Also BUNCH OF TEAMKILLERS *hides from Saba*

Price

<!--quoteo(post=1909265:date=Mar 2 2012, 07:37 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Mar 2 2012, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of being derps how about some suggestions instead of the usually unhelpful comments of 'this mod blows'.

I'm currently working in modifications to the existing models. The code that was released right now is so that it's easy to test and change values on instead of having people download a ton of models the first go. If McG allows I can post updates to those changes I'll be doing sometime this weekend.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you call 13 new models a ton? :P
I have no idea why you guys are angry about downloading models and textures.
Okay for the first version and testing its better using the same models, but seriously, do you guys realy like the same models on both teams?

<!--quoteo(post=1909063:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:47 AM:name=gamester_5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gamester_5 @ Mar 2 2012, 04:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are so good at doing it come up with a solution and post it, dont just flame him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Huh? Show me where i flame...i mean i can only see you and other users flame here and attacking other peoples.
I said nothing wrong, he was wrong, not me.
Because you can(!) change the textures inside the model not just inside the material...so please next time think and inform yourself about that before you call me a flamer or McGlaspie that im wrong.
And why should i post the solution if he don't want new textures.
These trolls...i just want to help him and you? oh you act like a troll.
I take my time to create these textures what did you do? oh right, you call me a flamer because of...ehm yeah, because of what?

<!--quoteo(post=1908987:date=Mar 2 2012, 02:32 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Mar 2 2012, 02:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Assuming that last statement is true, you've got a damned odd way of doing so...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Offering help is now beeing odd?
i just forget to add a "to"<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But hey, i just want <b>to</b> help...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is "my way" odd?
I take my time to create a secondary model, change 3 textures (illum, spec and default), upload two images and write down that i would like to help you coloring new models and now im odd?
I mean you can not just say im wrong because you have no idea about the models.
Maybe i don't speak english well but i am totaly right about the part with the models. you can clone them and use a diffrent model.
Anyway you don't want my help, but you could just say "no thanks, i don't need that" but you act like i have no idea what im talking about...but i did.

P.s. this is done, so any questions please write me a message, there is no need to write more on this thread i just "justify" myself.


EDIT 03/03:
Ok its getting ridiculous...
<!--quoteo(post=1909389:date=Mar 3 2012, 06:43 AM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Mar 3 2012, 06:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll just add it does seem you were being overly negative about this mod (although not moronic like RTV), and it does appear to be flaming, although only lightly seared. Maybe it is the ESL component coming through, which is making what you intend to be helpful criticism, and turning it into negativity and insultive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe my english sucks and this can result in misunderstandings but you can't even show me, where i "flame" or be "overly negative" about his mod...
I just said how it is, you can change the textur path of every model.

ScardyBob

<!--quoteo(post=1909188:date=Mar 2 2012, 05:05 AM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Mar 2 2012, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909188"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice work on releasing a playable mod!

What map are you playtesting this on (and naturally, balancing it for)?

I understand you might aim to get it equal across all maps, but to expect balance in a mod such as this in ever changing conditions is unreasonable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was playtested on summit. However, I think the major balance issues are related to with-in sides (i.e. shotguns >>> GLs at killing buildings, etc) than between sides, since the teams are identical. This makes me think that the biggest issues will be only one or two actually being viable (although McGlaspie has done some work to fix this).

endar

<!--quoteo(post=1909287:date=Mar 3 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 3 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Huh? Show me where i flame...i mean i can only see you and other users flame here and attacking other peoples.

Maybe i don't speak english well but i am totaly right about the part with the models.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'll just add it does seem you were being overly negative about this mod (although not moronic like RTV), and it does appear to be flaming, although only lightly seared. Maybe it is the ESL component coming through, which is making what you intend to be helpful criticism, and turning it into negativity and insultive.

<!--quoteo(post=1909298:date=Mar 3 2012, 07:10 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 3 2012, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was playtested on summit. However, I think the major balance issues are related to with-in sides (i.e. shotguns >>> GLs at killing buildings, etc) than between sides, since the teams are identical. This makes me think that the biggest issues will be only one or two actually being viable (although McGlaspie has done some work to fix this).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I decided to use summit (because I saw a video of it, figured thats the PT map), I guess I bring it up due to random spawns. Summit and Tram are pretty even, but what about Mineshaft, marine team two would always be on the north side, and marine team one would always be south.

McGlaspie

Ok, hopefully the forum won't crap out when I try to make a reply this time...

@endar and twiliteblue: I'm glad you guys seem to like it! I'll take any and all constructive feedback I can get.

@Price: I think this whole back and forth is just a case of Lost-in-Translation. No big deal. I'm fully aware how to change the models, textures, and material files around and how to swap them in and out in code, or even change them on the fly. I think this whole thing will be significantly simplified once skin support is added in.

<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What map are you playtesting this on (and naturally, balancing it for)?

I understand you might aim to get it equal across all maps, but to expect balance in a mod such as this in ever changing conditions is unreasonable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My hope and aim is to have this balanced on all maps. As you pointed out this will be problematic with the game being in flux quite a bit. Right now, the only map I see having potential balance issues is Mineshaft. Team 2 will have a much greater need for phase tech than team 1 would. So, this would force them to get it faster than team 1 would need to. I'm probably going to reduce the phase tech research back to the default 15 Tres as a result.

<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camping/ambushing is rather difficult with the red triangle marking enemies the second they show up in sight. Would a short delay on the enemy marker solve that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I originally had a small delay before the indicators were drawn, but this resulted in teammates shooting friendly structures and players to check if they were hostile or not. I may add a delay back in, but it will be minor at best. At the very least I'll experiment with this and see if I can't come up with a better solution. The target indicators will most likely not stay in this mod. They were put in place due to lack of skin support in the models.

<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mines appear to be mostly useless in MvM mode. Perhaps they're better off working as Satchel Charges for blowing up buildings or ARCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was concerned about this and that's why I increased mine damage. I'm going to remove mines from being marked with indicators if they are hostile, which should help a bit with this. I will probably reduce their cost too. Admittedly, this is sort of a band-aid approach though. In some ways, mines don't work in the MvM context at all. I'll definitely be tweaking them several times.