Would it be considered cheating if...

Xostean

<div class="IPBDescription">You changed the alien vision mode.</div>I was just wondering.

I discovered the other day that by changing a simple number around in the config file that deals with the alien vision mode from 1 to .5 it reduces the amount of orange haze enough that while it still highlights things, it is enough of a reduction to see ambient light (So you know if you are in a dark corner or in the brightest spot in the room since currently there is no way of telling)

Is this considered to be cheating and an Unfair advantage?

(This)
<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6296/ns2darkvision00.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

salor

If by doing this you start seeing things/objects you were not meant to see (with the default config), then i think its "cheating".

If by doing this you are only seeing things you were already meant to see (but clearer)...i wouldn't call it "cheating"..

dunno...but thats how i see it...

ScardyBob

People will probably differ on whether its considered cheating. My philosophy is that NS2 will eventually have some sort of anti-cheat/ensure client and server files match protection such that you will be hurting yourself by getting used to a mechanic that is not in vanilla NS2.

endar

I feel using alien vision at all is cheating, but i still use it all the time. I'm sure going to miss it when they finally fix it.

Nominous

I actually would call it a cheat when compared to the current alien vision mechanics. Marine models blend in with the environment, so it can be tough to spot them from far away using normal vision. Dark vision changes this by making marines and structures easily spotted using orange glows. But the problem with dark vision is that you can't easily discern lit areas from unlit ones, and whether or not you'd be easily spotted yourself. I personally have to toggle between normal and dark vision frequently, and it's annoying.

The mod gives the best of both worlds by providing a translucent, orange glow that allows you to spot marines from a mile away, as well as being able to recognize lit and unlit areas immediately. On top of that, you're now able to see flamethrower particles, which you can't do using dark vision only, and you're able to see through lerk spores, which you can't do using normal vision only.

I find it difficult to size up and fight marines using solely dark vision since they're, well, blocks of orange. I'm probably not the only one who likes to see details, and having a glow surrounding a detailed marine does feel like I have an advantage. But it feels so right that I'm quite hesitant to go back to toggling. We'll just have to see whether the team likes the mod or if certain dark vision changes are made.

_Necro_

<!--quoteo(post=1909145:date=Mar 2 2012, 10:36 AM:name=Karnaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karnaj @ Mar 2 2012, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually would call it a cheat when compared to the current alien vision mechanics. Marine models blend in with the environment, so it can be tough to spot them from far away using normal vision. Dark vision changes this by making marines and structures easily spotted using orange glows. But the problem with dark vision is that you can't easily discern lit areas from unlit ones, and whether or not you'd be easily spotted yourself. I personally have to toggle between normal and dark vision frequently, and it's annoying.

The mod gives the best of both worlds by providing a translucent, orange glow that allows you to spot marines from a mile away, as well as being able to recognize lit and unlit areas immediately. On top of that, you're now able to see flamethrower particles, which you can't do using dark vision only, and you're able to see through lerk spores, which you can't do using normal vision only.

I find it difficult to size up and fight marines using solely dark vision since they're, well, blocks of orange. I'm probably not the only one who likes to see details, and having a glow surrounding a detailed marine does feel like I have an advantage. But it feels so right that I'm quite hesitant to go back to toggling. We'll just have to see whether the team likes the mod or if certain dark vision changes are made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

^THIS! I hate it too, that I have to constantly toggle it on and off. It would be really nice to get this mod integrated into vanilla. It lessens the chaos of battles for aliens.

Asraniel

There is that mod that lets you see stuff in alien vision that your not supposed to see. Flames, light etc. That i consider cheating.
The whole idea of alien vision, is that it has downsides. With the alien vision mod, you really don't have any downsides, which means that you give yourself an unfair advantage.

The current alien vision is far from perfect, but my understanding is that its beeing worked on, so i wouldn't loose too much time thinking about this.

_Necro_

<!--quoteo(post=1909159:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:07 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Mar 2 2012, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The whole idea of alien vision, is that it has downsides.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I question that. I think it don't has to have downsides. It adds nothing to the gameplay or fun to constantly turning it off and on. And downsides are not needed for any balance issue. If the aliens really get to strong in close-combat, because they can actually see where the marine is moving, its better to lower the hp than to use this unintuitive and not fun: "turning on, turning off".

It's annoying, that you are not able to tell as skulk, if there is a spore-cloud or not, without switching it off. And it's annoying to not see marines through the spores, without switching it on.

The so often mentioned mod with a way lower opacity, is the way to go and should be implemented into vanilla. I don't think, that it will have a noticeable balance impact.

matso

Personally, I find the alien vision a bit too good when fighting tactially, and too sucky when not fighting. I accidentially turned it off in a battle and realized I had misses a really wonderful scenery - the hive was being attacked by ARCs and jetpackers, the umbra was flowing and the grenades was exploding all around me ... and I hadn't seen anything of it.

You really loose out on the visual experience when using alien vision. But its just too good in close combat to see where the marines not to use it, and even when not fighting, a quick scan around the room will tell you if there are any marines around... so no use hiding in shadows as a marine.

Personally, I would like the the aliens to have just one vision at all times. It should be pretty much like the usual vision, except that no-power and low-power light conditions should look different to aliens (easy to do - the lighting is all done client side, so you just need an "if alien" branch on the power-lighting stuff).

Using a different transparency for lerk spores so the alien vision can see through them... and maybe a tiny bit of outlining.

autograder

If you have to ask, yes.

Racer1

The current alien vision mode is a placeholder. To imply that what aliens currently see is correct is a bit presumptuous. Yes, it does give you a <i>small</i> advantage -- but I think it is worth the substantially richer visual experience (eye-candy wise) makes it worth the modification.

So, my answer is "no".

Arkanti

I don't think so, I use it primarily because it doesn't look as awful as the stock version purely from an aesthetic standpoint. I really hope they change the new version away from the current colour scheme.

Xostean

apparently there is already a thread about this in the mod section (and here i thought i was special)

It makes the game look like this
<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6296/ns2darkvision00.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

1dominator1

<!--quoteo(post=1909165:date=Mar 2 2012, 06:29 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 2 2012, 06:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I question that. I think it don't has to have downsides. It adds nothing to the gameplay or fun to constantly turning it off and on. And downsides are not needed for any balance issue. If the aliens really get to strong in close-combat, because they can actually see where the marine is moving, its better to lower the hp than to use this unintuitive and not fun: "turning on, turning off".

It's annoying, that you are not able to tell as skulk, if there is a spore-cloud or not, without switching it off. And it's annoying to not see marines through the spores, without switching it on.

The so often mentioned mod with a way lower opacity, is the way to go and should be implemented into vanilla. I don't think, that it will have a noticeable balance impact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


The problem is that seeing less detail is not a disadvantage in terms of gameplay, just in terms of aesthetics. Gameplay mechanics have to be balanced around gameplay not fun.

GORGEous

You can't label something so readily available and supported by UWE as cheating. There is a mod on these very forums that does exactly the same thing.

I would usually agree that anything that gives you an edge in gameplay in an FPS is cheating. But mods are encouraged by NS2's creators much like addons are encouraged in MMOs. Because of this encouragement, I would go with a more lenient definition of cheating. Anything (mod, script, config edit) that automatically does things for you is cheating. I would include: fire scripts, jumping scripts, aimbots (obviously). There is definitely some gray area. Wallhacks are clearly cheating, but a flashlight mod that gives you 50/50 alien vision and normal vision? I don't think that's cheating.

PsiWarp

Anyway, the new alien vision is accepted, so we'll see if there's need to "cheat" by modding the code :P

Sewlek

<!--quoteo(post=1909133:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:16 AM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Mar 2 2012, 04:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel using alien vision at all is cheating, but i still use it all the time. I'm sure going to miss it when they finally fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

im on it :P

Zek

I never liked the current implementation of alien vision, but as long as it obscures details as an intentional drawback of using it, overriding that with a local mod is definitely cheating. If they get rid of the drawback though then I have no problem with people customizing its appearance.

Raza.

<!--quoteo(post=1909159:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:07 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Mar 2 2012, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is that mod that lets you see stuff in alien vision that your not supposed to see. Flames, light etc. That i consider cheating.
The whole idea of alien vision, is that it has downsides.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually, one of the devs, probably Max, mentioned that not being able to see flames etc. in the vision mode is just an unfortunate side-effect of the way the mode is currently implemented. As I understood it, the downsides are engine limitations and not real features.

LV426-Colonist

I don't think console commands are considered cheating. Though exploiting them is.

At this current stage of the game it is really easy to adjust the game so that you may have the advantage.

kororas

Is it odd that i've never used alien vision and only recently discovered it when accidentally pressing the toggle button? lol

naXy

This should be considered cheating, taking out the disadvantage of alien vision and keeping all the good stuff. No one would use normal vision if alien vision was like this at default.