Official stance on 199 movement
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">In case you didn't read it before</div>I wanted to make sure you guys know our reasoning behind this. From my post <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116743&view=findpost&p=1909319" target="_blank">here</a>:
"We definitely don't want to restore the old Skulk movement: there was a BIG bug in it, resulting in players with faster computers actually being able to MOVE faster. Raise your hand if you want a game that gives that advantage. I didn't think so.
The proper balance for the Skulk may not be in this version, but we'll continue to iterate until he feels smooth and great on every machine.
But if you had a very fast machine before, I'm afraid that "old skulk" will be gone for good. At least you got to enjoy super-powers for awhile..."
"We definitely don't want to restore the old Skulk movement: there was a BIG bug in it, resulting in players with faster computers actually being able to MOVE faster. Raise your hand if you want a game that gives that advantage. I didn't think so.
The proper balance for the Skulk may not be in this version, but we'll continue to iterate until he feels smooth and great on every machine.
But if you had a very fast machine before, I'm afraid that "old skulk" will be gone for good. At least you got to enjoy super-powers for awhile..."
Comments
haha vulture =D
We have faith Flayra. I just tend to lose mine in the moment of "wtf". You gave us NS1 and im sure NS2 will be just as good if given the proper chance. NS2 is like Origami right now. Looks like a folded mess, but once done and awesome crane.
We have faith Flayra. I just tend to lose mine in the moment of "wtf". You gave us NS1 and im sure NS2 will be just as good if given the proper chance. NS2 is like Origami right now. Looks like a folded mess, but once done and awesome crane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for quotiing my post, looks like it has been removed, says it all tbh. :/
No problem =)
Very funny! :P
It's good that skilled movement is being addressed, but I can't stress enough that it needs to be the top gameplay priority not just because of the usual alien skill ceiling too low without it arguments, but because it is such a large and necessary part of NS gameplay that it will require most of the game to be rebalanced once it's implemented.
You're one of those people who never plays the lerk, right?
Hopefully edges will be smoothed out in future iterations, but atm I am moving to gorge as starting evolution.
It took some time with the old version before I got how to use it properly with extensive use of the speed meter and consistently being able to create chains of 10+ speeds. When I now tried the new version, I got the same WTF? moment when I felt it was crap, unintuitive and unresponsive. I closed the game, turned on the speed meter, and booted again. After my initial staggering steps of trying to see how to actually get any decent speed from wall-jumps, it has really grown on me.
I can with decent consitensy get the initial 11+ speed from the first wall-jump, and at times continue to chain multiple ones. The problem here is mostly consisting with my reactions and being to slow to time jumping and direction correctly for the next jump to keep the speed, although you at times get to a staggering halt at certain wall geometries (flat walls are generally easier).
While I haven't figured out a way for it to be as useful in actual combat dancing around a marine like the old one, you can quickly zap across a hallway and close the gap with the victim. The only possible thing I'd like to adress is to allow for -one- jump from the floor to keep the bonus, it's very unforgiving now if you touch the floor right before you reach the other wall. This would also make you able to do walljump/floorjump/marinebite attacks, wich makes the jumping more skillful as you quickly can reach a marine instead of just being lucky with geometry+marine position+marine movement and they happen to go where you hope as you jump only on walls towards them. It would also help balancing big rooms in the sense that you could walljump/floorjump/walljump to bound across larger rooms.
I also feel that the jump prevent duration (the one to avoid jumping multiple times from the same surface) needs to be shorter. With the speed you can get now it's not uncommon to reach the second wall and not being able to jump due to the jump-prevention cooldown.
This might not be exactely how the walljump works, but it's what I've been able to observe from my tests.
looks like skulks are finally getting more interesting. i don't know if this is what wall jumping is supposed to be but it actually looks skill-based and fun.
looks like skulks are finally getting more interesting. i don't know if this is what wall jumping is supposed to be but it actually looks skill-based and fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't been able to play ns2 much because of low fps but this looks like a big step in the right direction. It would be cool to see people doing floor to wall to ceiling hops for a lot of speed.
looks like skulks are finally getting more interesting. i don't know if this is what wall jumping is supposed to be but it actually looks skill-based and fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasnt it like that in 198 aswell?
Also why not just fix the bug that was causing people with faster pcs to move slightly faster.
looks like skulks are finally getting more interesting. i don't know if this is what wall jumping is supposed to be but it actually looks skill-based and fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, looks interesting alright. Up untill you realize all you do is literally hold w and spam jump grazing walls. Going to be even easier to do once they reduce wall stickiness. I would rather skill based movement be about picking the right angles, not simply building frankly insane speeds on a non-celerity skulk in an unintuitive manner but thats just me.
Infact, ns1 bhop is better than this. If the devs want to put in bhop, i dont see why we need to jump off walls close to the normal to do so. Spinning my view 90-180 or whatever every few seconds for the wall jump is starting to make me feel a bit nauseous.
well, that sounds pretty much awful. in the video it looked like he had to use the environment intelligently to maintain/gain speed and maybe there was something special to the timing of the jumps he was doing.
Well yea, definately. For skie to do that consistently around the whole map takes skill which he undoubtedly has. It however doesn't take alot of skill to do it once or twice to get huge speed into combat so much so that i've seen people doing it accidently.
I kinda like it.
PS: you can pretty much ignore the blue bar, so you dont really need the meter if you understand the basics - which is good.
Its true I say, I saw with my own eyes skulk whole game! The lerk movement nerf was unintentional and is getting removed next patch I think.
Yeah, it is, but to say you like it better implies that you prefer to move slower than grenades as a lerk. Or that you have no idea what you're talking about and are just raising your postcount.
I do not know what you are talking about, I never said I liked the lerk movement. As for the other guy, I think he was talking about the skulk changes not the lerk changes(which have been stated to be unintentional by the devs).
the first time i was like "WTF" playing with the new movement but i just getting used to it now.
but i wonder why people sometimes run in ultra speed as skulk, this video explain a lot.
This video gives realy a motion sickness, i liked the old movement, could you guys not just fix it?
it feels way more diffrent, now its like playing a very tiny marine...
<!--quoteo(post=1909812:date=Mar 4 2012, 10:45 AM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Mar 4 2012, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909812"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->didn't realise they put bhopping back in the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
can't wait to see 2 skulks killing a 8 men marine team because of bhop...
bhop is a glitch and in my mind, it looks retarded if skulks run and hop around like idiots...very big ambience killer.
but you have to see the fade's side jumping, he looks like this:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsROL4Kf8QY&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsROL4Kf8QY...feature=related</a>
As far as I've understood it's pretty hard to create an engine that doesn't have some kind of glitchy movement physics in it. The actual decision is probably more about whether you try to kill down the glitches or to build something out of them.
*edit* Price, i am not trying to personally attack you or your post. Below it just an assault on all posts like yours. Not you personally. I generally agree with you and enjoy your comments. Just not in this case =)
Are you serious? Did you even watch this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWBd8KiOiI" target="_blank">link</a>? This isnt an ambiance killer? I TRULY hate this argument and find it seriously lacking any real solid ground. We are in a sci-fi game playing as aliens. They can move however they want. The implementation now looks WORSE than Bhopping because of the need for walls. Why the heck would you get a speed boost as an alien life form grazing a wall... Now sure i could make up outlandish things to make this make sense, but on the surface BHopping was easier to accept than this wall skimming. I do think it is a perversion of what the devs actually want but good on Skie for drawing out the most potential with any type of movement.
STOP THE IT LOOKS SILLY ARGUMENT.
STOP THE IT LOOKS SILLY ARGUMENT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That brings up a good point. The only reasons they're implementing this system over bhop is because bhop isn't immediately obvious on what you have to do and it might be hard to replicate well on a new engine. The main barrier people hit with bunnyhopping was jump timing. I think bunnyhopping can be understood pretty quickly once jump timing becomes a wider window or nonexistant. With wallhopping it appears you need to time jumps anyway, possibly with a delay less obvious than immediate. If that's the case I don't see many advantages in this system.
Never did I want to argue that 'bring back all the bugs that the 198 system had', but I just wanted the mechanic back where walking on walls had more signifigance than now.
I guess it's flogging a dead horse anyway, but I'd really like to see someone try to create an actual well animated bhop. In some sense the basic idea of chaining jumping motions actually resembles more like a real world predator at full speed than the floor confined WASD-movement does. You probably have to overkill the jump height to some extend, but otherwise the momentum gives it much more of big predator feel rather than a WASD controlled field mouse that goes full speed at any direction at any given moment.
I've found a new super-power.
I tried differend methods to get speed and the easiest one was the fastest, just press W look at the ground and press jump(mousewheel).
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you can get very fast 30+ movement for 3-4 sec. This videos only show ~24 for 2 sec movementspeed.
I could't record a really fast one, because fraps/streaming messed up my fps.
it works on every wall. You can watch <a href="http://de.twitch.tv/tah_ns2/b/310587891" target="_blank">http://de.twitch.tv/tah_ns2/b/310587891</a> min 1:50+ if you want but its a little bit boring^^. (was listening to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116766" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=116766</a> hope he doesn't mind)
And keep in mind its not a skillbased bunnyhop video just a guy who can roll his mousewheel very fast to get speed.